Quote - > Quote - Nobody has answered the fundamental question as to what is actually wrong with nudity? Please somebody tell me how it is either evil, damaging to society, bad in any shape or form, degrading perhaps, exploitative, disgusting, obscene... in short harmful?? Please anyone? Perhaps a question Renderosity can't even answer in a conquest to cleanse their site of a "problem" that doesn't exist.

Until this question is answered in a satisfactory manner, I stand firm on my position.

How old are you? Do you honestly think that huffing and puffing on the poser forum is going to get your 'question ... answered in a satisfactory manner'?

Do you walk around supermarkets naked? If not, I assume it's because because you are "prudish and insecure about being human" or "hiding natural human appearance in shame" or "grossed out by nude nipples".

You may have noticed that different societies (and different groups within them) have different attitudes towards nudity. Something which is acceptable on a beach in the south of France could get you arrested in Florida. Something which is acceptable in Florida could get you arrested in some Middle Eastern countries. Something which I think is perfectly fine would shock my grandmother.

How you feel about nudity depends on your religious background, your nationality, how old you are, the era in which you grew up, how well travelled you are etc, etc, etc. So there is no single answer to "What is wrong with nudity?"

You seriously hadn't figured this out?

Rendo is a global internet company, they play safe and avoid offending the most easily offended of their customers and business partners. Some merchants might be taking that practice a bit further, or they might be afraid of the hassle resulting from falling foul of Rendo's rules.

yes I agree that different cultures deal with nudity differently, however that says nothing about whether nudity is harmful or not, unless you disagree that harm is the deciding factor

as sombody mentioned earlier to respect all cultures would mean we'd have to ban kissing as well, how much support would that get?

regarding your nude in public comment, gays in africa may be ashamed to be seen in public, does that make being gay wrong? I'm not saying everybody should walk around nude in public, but I think it's accepatble to tolerate nudity with reasonable warning, which rendosirty have done in the past, but now seem to want to stamp out

of course rendersoity can do what they like, but to me it seems like (since it used to be ok) that this is happening out unreasonable political correctness not a sound argument

and it hampers the buying experience for me as a customer here and possibly many other who don't necessarily like talking about it

Quote - Some object strongly to nudity on religious grounds (and I'm not going to get into that can of worms). Some object because it embarrasses them. Some do not want their children to see it too early or at all, which was as I recall one of the arguments for banning nudity in thumbnails in the gallery.

But, also as I recall, its part of the business model that Rendo had to adopt if they wanted to have Paypal purchasing as part of the payment process. Paypal almost refused because they took a look at the store and saw all sorts of nudity in the thumbnails of products and demo images. So Rendo had to make new rules about thumbnails and demo images in order to satisfy Paypal. To Paypal, nudity equals pornography and they do not want that image to damage their image. So, no nudity in store thumbnails, and only one demo image can show the character nude. We may not agree with Paypal's stance, but if the site wanted Paypal to be part of their payment set then they had to tow the line. My personal belief on why some vendors are skipping the nude demo page is because they are being extremely cautious about the rules because I believe I read somewhere that Paypal does periodically check the sites they agree to handle purchasing for. I do not know if that's absolutely true or not, but I believe that might be why some vendors are doing this.

Personally I'm not offended at all by male or female nudity. I was raised in a household that valued archaeology (which I'd be right now if I could handle extremes of temperature). And that meant nude images all the way from paleo figurines, Egyptian murals, and of course, all those Greek bronze statues! But there are as many opinions on this subject as there are people visiting this site.

So your answer--people vary on what they think about nudity, but on this site and in the marketplace, it's probably primarily a business model decision. If you're interested in a character/texture set from a vendor and they don't display a nude demo, then message them politely and they may either link to one or email you one. I'm also creating a character/texture package for the market place. I will have one full body nude image in my demos. But in the morph thumbnails I just finished rendering, I decided to put a bikini bottom on the body image. I didn't put a top on her, but I did split the difference and put bottoms on her because I have read complaints about nudity in people's runtime library windows.

appreciate a reasoned response, I hold the view that religious action can only be supported as far as it does not violate secular moral values

If religious views propagate the notion that gay behavior is an abomination, that can not be supported

if there is no harm in nudity, religious views to the contrary must not be tolerated

Ok I have calmed down a little. I guess I just wanted to vent to some extent. Hehe. Of course I haven't change my position on this.

I guess I will leave you with this thought. Could this be a case of overshooting on "polictial correctness"? I think so yes, because...

Nobody has answered the fundamental question as to what is actually wrong with nudity? Please somebody tell me how it is either evil, damaging to society, bad in any shape or form, degrading perhaps, exploitative, disgusting, obscene... in short harmful?? Please anyone? Perhaps a question Renderosity can't even answer in a conquest to cleanse their site of a "problem" that doesn't exist.

Until this question is answered in a satisfactory manner, I stand firm on my position. Hopefully Renderosity staff or a vendor or two come across this thread and ask themselves this question too. Those who engage in this and ommit valueable product information, eliminate choice and cater only for customers on one side of the issue.

Quote - > Quote - Also please explain how a bleeding, decaying zombie is less horrifying that nude nipples. Don't you see how twisted this society it becoming with regards to nudity and sexuality? THAT is the only shame being perpetrated here!

Uhm, what?

In the 40s and 50s, married couples could not be shown on tv sleeping in the same bed. That's why Lucy and Ricky slept in twin beds.

Today we have oral sex being simulated in soap operas and sit coms, and entire series like Desperate Housewives, Nip/Tuck and Jersey Shore, among countless others - pretty much all of which revolve around nothing but sex with anyone and everyone as often as possible. If the first episode of FX's American Horror Story had been filmed in the 1980s it would most likely have only been shown on Cinemax Late Night, cause it's pretty much soft-core porn. 

Society is drenched in sex today, from tv to magazines to bilboard ads. It's even in freakin M&M candy commercials. Twisted, yes. Prudish, not by a long shot. 

~Shane

do you think lucy and ricky sleeping in separate beds was the right approach?

this is somewhat off topic, but in general I disagree with you here, relationships and sex are an intrinsic part of what it means to be human so yes it should be prevalent in society, it's just that some like to keep it to their relationship/ wife only and others are more open about it

and for every bad show that revolves in fluffy manner around sex, there is a bad show does not contain sex at all, so sex doesn't make a bad show

just as you stated that nothing requires me to purchase at Renderosity, nothing also requires you to watch these shows, I don't

Quote - > Quote - And as Laurie stated, you're really bordering on being a troll, cause there's nothing anyone of us can do about it. If you don't like it, don't shop here anymore. There's a few other poser sites you can get your porn fix at.

 

~Shane

 

I appologize if I seem overly enthusiastic, but it's an important issue. And I am a customer here, voicing my concerns with reasoned arguments!

Do tell at which point nudity become porn? When was I referring to porn? Because that appears to be real problem here. I mention nudity and some people immediately equate it to porn. It is not! 

We have differing opinions, you do not tolerate nudity (I assume), I do. Is it possible to cater for both?

 

Quote - Ok, you've been told already...it's not OUR POLICY, it's Rendo's. We do not own, nor do we run the site, nor do we make the site decisions. Going on and on to us about it won't change diddly squat, so if you'd like to continue on this ridiculous vein, it will just be trolling in IMVHO. We can't do ANYTHING ABOUT IT. YOU complain to the powers that be if you don't like their policies - you can bitch at us until you're blue in the face but it won't accomplish anything. LOL

Laurie

Did you read any of my posts? Renderosity STILL allows nudity, but vendors are chosing not to display them! So yes, the ball is still in the vendors court as well.

I am not trolling. Every post is followed by a reasoned argument, if not please point it out and I will address it. Thank you.

Quote - You might also consider payment processors in your witch hunt. Many payment processors (such as paypal, for example) are pretty strict when it comes to nudity on merchant websites as they have pretty fine lines about what they consider pornography. They don't give two shits if you call it art. In that regard, it's not up to the merchant website to decide, they have to abide by the rules of their payment processing companie(s).

Be glad rosity allows nudity at all, because of that. 

Visa recently went on a crusade against all sites that contained any adult content, or anything they deemed to be adult content. I'm not sure if that's still going and I don't know the specifics about it. 

There are other poser-content sites that have had serious problems obtaining payment processors due to the simple fact they display naked 3D figures on their pages or in their marketplace. 

And, there are community members and customers here who are from countries whose laws don't even allow kissing to be displayed in public or in any media, much less nudity. They're considered serious crimes and can bring a lot of trouble from the governments.

Just some points to consider when lashing out at a group of people and/or a website for being too conservative for your tastes, before looking at all the facts.

 

~Shane

I'm sorry but I am assuming you are wrong, re processesors, because Renderosity was accepting nudity since day one and THEY have now apparently started the witch hunt on nudity. It would be hard to believe that Visa has now suddenlty turned on Rosity. I don't know of course.

And it's still a solution where no problem exists!! Do you really think customers have suddenly started complaining about nudity when it used to be hard to find a figure without? You just expected to see the skin texture you were buying. Now Renderosity is jumping on the "we don't want to be seen as promoting the shameful nude body" band wagon. It's very tragic.

I'm sorry that there are countries where kissing is prohibited, does that mean we should ban kissing in wetern countries as well? It's ludicrous to think we can cater for every custom and religion. The point is: what is what is moral and right?

Now if you can tell me about the evils and harms of nudity, then I will be all ears!! Please explain to me how nudity harms society!!

Don't you think it would be nice if actions were based on solid reasoning and not superstition, ancient customs and conformity?

Quote - Isn't Rendo in the 'Bible Belt" or at the very least "conservative" America?

Ok I understand you're kidding, but seriously now. Renderosity is becoming more prudish like Daz by the day.

When buying skins/ characters one of the few points of difference for me between Daz and Renderosity was that I could actually see what I'm buying at Renderosity. Now that Renderosity is playing the same "politically correctness" game in trying to immitate Daz more and more, what is the point of coming here? That was one of the few good points about Renderosity. It's quite sad actually, because I do like Renderosity and I like the new design, but that is a move for the worse and won't in any way benefit Renderosity.

Since there is no more choice people will be inclined to go directly to the source. I'm not saying this out of spite, it's simple logic for those that don't have a history with Renderosity.

Quote - Renderosity allows nudity as long as there is an advisory. I am grateful for this as I will sometimes browse the Internet and peek in at Renderosity over my lunch hour and I work in a setting where school teachers are sometimes present, so it would not look good if I just happened to be bombarded with nude pictures on my screen without warning. The choice to include those seems to be a trend that individual vendors are electing, not something Renderosity has asked them to do.

I don't have any problem with advisories... which they all use anyway I have a problem with NO display of skin textures!!

Stop with this nonsens of being bombarded with nude pictures please. Everybody uses advisories the only way you see nude images if you decide to click on them?

Also please explain how a bleeding, decaying zombie is less horrifying that nude nipples. Don't you see how twisted this society it becoming with regards to nudity and sexuality? THAT is the only shame being perpetrated here!

And perhaps you can explain what happens when you see a nude picture. Are you going to get struck by lighting? Will god send you to hell? Will we forever be scared by the emotional torment???

We were born with certain attributes... that what it means to be a human being. If you want to be ashamed of that, that is your call I don't have anything against that, but why do I have to suffer?? I have no problem with nudity and I am not ashamed of how nature made me. Thank you!

Quote - > Quote -

if that's all it took I would not complain, but many vendors do NOT show nudity AT ALL meanign NO full skin textures any longer and this hampers my buying decisions

When it comes to hair props, if a vendor doesn't include a clear view of the hair from the back, I tend to assume it's because the back looks shite.

Maybe a failure to show full nudity isn't necessarily due to prudishness...

well the ones I'm referring to definitely do not seem to have any such issues from what I can tell the quality is rather high otherwise

Quote - I must be missing something here, when I am looking for a good character set or texture I tend to look at the face first.  If I find the face attractive, or ugly if I want a villan, then I look at the additional images to see if the rest appeals to me.  I don't do nude renders as a rule as so manyother people cover that off in their renders there is no real need to add to it.  Yes, seeing the full naked texture is important, even to me but not to the degree I am upset if it takes a few extra clicks of the mouse.

If there are large chunks of product not shown, be it character, hair or prop, I usually do not buy so by the law of supply and demand I suspect most vendors have got it right for the majority of the buyers, but then you are never going to please everyone.

if that's all it took I would not complain, but many vendors do NOT show nudity AT ALL meanign NO full skin textures any longer and this hampers my buying decisions

Quote - > Quote - ...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!!??

Are we really that prudish and insecure about being human?? YES women have breasts!! YES men have penises!! Grow up!!! Why are we so afraid of sexualizing everything and hide natural human appearance in shame? Is everyone really that grossed out by nude nipples or is policital correctness completely out of control?? It's aweful childish behavior!

...

This trend is disturbing and disgusting and that's why I hate browing Daz because of their freaking childish behavior and now Renderosity too.

Why don't you lighten up a little. You are shooting the messenger (or yelling hysterically at the messenger anyway).

Take a moment to read the submission guidelines for marketplace products here:

http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=13759#8

If you see product promo images which are at odds with those guidelines, take it up with the merchant concerned. If you have a problem with the guidelines themselves, take it up with Rendo. Having a hissy fit here just makes you look like a drama queen.

thank you and it states that nudity IS ALLOWED for secondary images

I do note that renderosity are making it difficult to see and for that renderosity gets a huge slap on the wrist for perpatuating the notion that it's shameful to be human, that is shameful not the nudity

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - sometimes the vendors are just making the previews "work safe".

 

are you saying huge big letter content warnings are not enough?

are you saying provocative clothed imagery (which is allowed) is worse than a simple back and front view of the skin texture?

are you saying the corporate world now dicates what every private person ought to be looking at?

are you saying society ought to be so ashamed what a real human being looks like?

are you saying bloody decaying zombies are "safer" than nipples on a woman or a penis on a man?

 

or maybe just explain what exactly is "unsafe" about a nude picture, I'd really like to know, because I don't understand!?

maybe some folks don't want to get fired for veiwing this stuff at work....sure there are options but they may not notice that.

sure you're going to get fired, what country do you live in??

you didn't read the above did you? do you think any of the other items are more valid?

that also doesn't get to the core of the issue with people being ashamed of who they are

Quote - There are usually nude images on subsequent images for skin textures, just not the main image...some ppl visit Rendo while they're working. Personally, I think it's a good policy. If you're not seeing the whole body on a skin texture product, it's because your not looking at all the images supplied.

Laurie

please read my statement about work safe above, I'm not talking about a main image as a nude image, I'm talking about no skin texture image AT ALL even WITH content warning, because you can't take "work safe" too serious apperently... so is everybody now living at work? Is that why this is necessary? 

Quote - There is a Renderosity account option to NOT view nude images.  Perhaps OP'er could check whether own account settings have been switch to not show nude images. Nothing personal intended here, don't take this comment wrongly, please..

Personally, I value such an optional viewing function, because I don't want to be browsing a nude promo image when I am travelling in say, a conservative country where strict rules about such matters apply.

firstly I know how to use the "safe" options, I've been a renderosity user for years, I'm specifically talking about vendors no longer show casing nude skin textures even with the available CONTENT WARNING options, perhaps you don't buy here often

and I'm glad you hate nudity and that therefore others must think like you. apparently that's the way vendors are thinking now too. back to middle ages I suppose