@CrazyDawg I was never on a soap box to begin with. You just assumed I was. Now instead of kicking the soap box out from under me, you just kickd me in the leg, ouch! I have slightely changed my poisition when I said I was in total agreement with ERLIK. It takes learning the rules before you can break them, just as you need to sail across a rive before you can be at the other side. You can go back in read the post, it is my last post before this one. So yes skills and rules ar important, but I belive it is far more important to have the ablity to throw out all rules and create from there. I think the bottom line is, and of course it is only my opinion, That when creating whether it is 3d, paint, pencil and paper, sculpting, music etc. that one should not limited themselves by concepts as beauty, ugly, good taste, bad taste, good art, bad art or any other concept. I think getting to that point is the most in important part. I guess its more like the actual conception of the idea. You have to concieve of an idea before you can create it. The less you are bound by concepts the more pure the idea concieved will be. The concepts seem to serve as a filter that the mind runs through before the idea is concieved, the more filters the more diluted the idea becomes. So I see the importance of thechnical skill especially in the 3d. Techincal skill becomes the means by which you bring the idea into the world, so without sufficiant technical skill the idea never leaves the mind.But without a doubt I belive it is much more benifical to have a mind free of concepts with no technical ability to express ideas rather than a mind boxed into a corner by concepts but with great technical ability.

Erlik I have to say I totally agree with you. Its like if you want to cross a river you need to sail it first. I think the most important thing though is to realize that the rules dont exist to begin with. But in my experience it had taken alot of playing by the rules before realizing I had to through them out. It came to a certain point in my creativity where it was like banging my head against a wall. That was because the rules no longer provided enough room to express my self, at that point the rules went out the window. But the cool thing about understanding the rules is that once you go beyond, the rules become your playground, it becomes a kind of game. You control the rules, they dont control you.

At #0, the Fool is the card of infinite possibilities. The bag on the staff indicates that he has all he need to do or be anything he wants, he has only to stop and unpack. He is on his way to a brand new beginning. But the card carries a little bark of warning as well. Stop daydreaming and fantasising and watch your step, lest you fall and end up looking the fool. I can see the similarities there. But dont worry, I watch my step. I dont fantasize or live in daydream world. The fantasy world is the world seen through the lens of the conditioned mind. The only reality is the unconditioned. By the way, dont worry, I'm not on magic mashrooms. Back to art discussion!

yep, the fool! (of the tarots) I dont get it, I dont know much anything about tarot cards.

Yeah drawbridgrep I know what you are saying, I was actually thinking of that while I was typing my last post.
Yes 3d apps are little different because they are very technical programs. It would be very difficult to let your imagination fly when you cant create anything beyond a primitive. So at least with 3d apps you have to learn the rules before you can break them.
The reason I had started this thread was to get down to the essence of creativity. What I am trying express is that anything that we create through the conditioned part of our mind, and what I mean by that is the part of ourselves that has been conditioned by the world, when we create from that part of ourselves it is not coming from an original place. It is not really your creation, it is only an expression of every concept that has been dumped into your mind since birth.
Now if we learn how to uncondition the mind, empty out all the concepts and come from the unconditioned part of your the mind, the true essence of the mind, then our creation become an expression of our true nature, and to me there no beauty beyound that.

Message edited on: 01/07/2006 15:51

I dont belive imagination is something you either have or you dont, everyone has it. Just not evryone has the ability to access it. The only way to access it is through letting go. If you learn the ability to remove yourself from all concepts, to let go of everything you know, everythin you been taught, you then remove the barriers placed in the mind that box the imagination in, and with no barriers no limits. All of our preconieved notions of how things should be, everything dumped into the mind creates a box, in that box is limited room. Let go of all preconcieved notions, all concepts and the box disappears, all that is left is infinite freedom to explore. Striving:"Lastly, This is an art site. Art is for the mind, of course, but to get to the mind it comes through the eyes. And for me, I would rather gaze at a wonderfully done work of a simple idea, than an interesting creative idea that looks terrible." But what is terrible? What is beauty? If you can transcend all concepts of what something is, all things in the world become wonderous. From that state of mind you could see the wonder in a dog turd. Imsgine that! This world is truly a wonderous thing, it goes beyond any Bryce image I have seen. I'm not talking exclusively about 3d art, im talking about all forms of art, painting, music etc. In my opinion the best art, the truest art is the art the is created from a mind of no concepts, no preconcieved notions of what anything is suppose to be or how anything is suppose to look. Just the expression of the pure mind.

I will have to disagree with you Erik that imagination without technical skill is pretty much useless. What is technical skill anyway? I've learned something from observing a really good friend of mine. he has one of the most wildest imaginations ever, ideas that would blow your mind, but his technical ability sucks, by the standard definition of technical ability. He is almost thirty years old, but has the drawing skill of maybe a typical thirteen year old. But his imagination is so powerful that he uses the gifts he does have to produce work and what I realized is that this is his gift, he is techincally perfect in his way. His scribbly, crude style is his natural way of expressing his mind. How can there be any standard to judge anything by, everything is valid. We all have our natural way, like my friends way of expression is crude and messy, I've even noticed this crudeness in everything he does, he also makes music and it is the same way, his guitar playing skill is very crude, he can play it just enough to express whats in his mind. I noticed it even his mannerism, his way of walking, he's really heavy footed and forcful in his movements, it is just his way. It caused me to look at myself and I can see it in myself also. I have always had a nack for drawing, rythm and music, while my friend is crude and messy, may way is smooth and more flowing, that is just my nature. When I express my imagination it comes in a more smooth and flowing way. My way isnt any better than his, it is just different. We all have our way, and to me creativity is about opening your mind and going to the depths of your imagination and expressing it through your own natural way. When I can see at least some of the artist within his work that is when I can really appreciate the work.

Message edited on: 01/07/2006 12:56

thanks for the comments. i decided not to do anymore modeling with max. i kind of want to see how well i can do this just with bryce, kind of a challange. i see what you mean about the feet, i may add some more orange and white accesories, so that the feet match. thanks for the suggestions.

dino

hey groingrinder, thats funny. techically there is two lights, but only one is on. yeah, im using the light for the shadow effect. in my other hdri scenes i used no lights, and just used highly reflective materials, but it would suck cuz i wasnt able to get much color unless i cranked up the ambiance, wich didnt look too good. first i tried using a combo of fake hdri and gi using a light dome, but my computer wasnt handling it to well. so i just used one cone shaped light, flattened it out and made it big enough to cover the scene, then i played around with the light settings till i got something i liked. i was actually suprised with the results, i got a pretty descent gi look with only one light. and it definatly saved some render time. i just finished another one, i think this one is even better as far the shadows go, they seem less harsh. i cant remember what settings i used for the light though, i'll have to go back and check if anyone is interested.

oh yeah, i also did some postwork in photoshop. heres another one.

goddamn, sorry the image is so big. i dint realize how huge it was.

cool, thanks guys.

here is another one i did with a teapot i imported from 3ds max. i originally tried a wood texture for the table top, but it didnt work. so i used a glass material instead.how do i get the wood texture to show?

hmm the only thing i notice is the wtc in the mirror, and the steering wheel is on right side