Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=310472&Hot=Y

The trees look very, very good. But Kromekat says later in the comments that the Gollum figure is a photo of Gollum from the movie composited into the render of the forest scene, not a Poser figure. I was all excited for a moment when I first clicked, thinking, Hell, someone did that with Vic 3?! :(

If you read his comments, it's a photograph of Gollum from the movie pasted into a bryce render. It isn't Poser at all.

There are very nice models from the Marketplace, which he credits politely. The combination graphic is a very nice example of how to blend a photograph with Poser models in a realistic way. It will be interesting to see if he is able to create his own model from the photograph...which I think is the ultimate goal if I'm reading his comments correctly.

Well, the credits were kind of a given... they're his models from the Marketplace. :) And they really are amazing. I've wanted kromekat's tree models for forever because the detail is astonishing, as you can see in the render. Really, really exceptional work, both with the modeling and the texturing. I think there was just a little bit of unintended confusion at first about what was his and what was composited in the render, though he says in the notes to the image that Gollum is a photo. If kromekat does do a Gollum model, I'm sure it'll go on my wishlist too. He is very talented.

I guess I didn't phrase that very well (not the first time) but his Marketplace items are quite wonderful. I think the person who creates the models should be the one who best knows how to use them...and he certainly proves that. I don't think it takes away from the quality from the work at all that he also makes his models available for sale. It does seem as if he would be able to create the model in question and make it a high quality item.

The trees and image are very nice. Adam does wonderful work. However, it bothers me that the pasted image of Gollum is in there. Mainly because of this copyright notice at the New Line Cinema site...and Gollum is definately property of New Line Cinema. "No Online Material may be copied, reproduced, republished, modified, uploaded, posted, transmitted, distributed in any way, or otherwise used for any purpose without the prior written permission of their respective owners. You may not add, delete, distort, or otherwise modify the contents on the NL Sites. Any unauthorized attempts to modify any Online Material, to defeat or circumvent our security features, or to utilize the NL Sites for other than their intended purposes are prohibited." We are seeing some modified images from the LOTR and the TTT in the galleries now. Seems they are starting to pop up more and more. It's copyright violation pure and simple. I like Adam and respect his talent a LOT...this isn't a slam against him, so please no nasty IM's perhaps he had no idea by simply uploading the image it was a violation of their copyright. But we all need to be aware that just because it's out there doesn't mean it's public domain and no matter how innocent, we still can't use it. I sure wouldn't want New Line on my butt or on this site's butt because of some misunderstanding about the rules of their stuff. And I don't want to hear "but so and so site does it" it still does not make it right. And the big legitimate sites do have permission it's quite the big deal. I belong to a LOTR costume list and they had to jump through hoops to get permission just to show one sleeve of a costume..it was almost taken down because New Line found out that images from the movies were being published on websites without their permission...So they are very aware of what is going on internet wise.... We just need to be very careful...and Adam made it very plain on his commentary at the top from the get go that it was a pasted in image of Gollum...unlike some otheres that have used their imagery...some of us just read it incorrectly and ran with it from there. Pendy

If he makes a Gollum 3D character and tries to sell it, he should give New Line Cinema a percentage (after he gets their permission to sell it, of course).

i saw that image right before i went to sleep...yes, 9:00 on a friday, was that tired. have any of you TRIED to make something like that gollum out of v3? 'cause i just figured out how i'm gonna waste my weekend.

Well, I did a Gollum pic using the DAZ gremlin awhile back, before I knew what the cinematic interpretation would look like. I didn't tweak the model that much, but the picture got some positive responses here and especially at the Poser newsgroup. Poppi, there are lots of us who do more than nekkid-temple-Vicky. We're just not in the majority. Excellent points, and well said, Pendarian!

By the way, Poppi, since you've had a lot to say about the Poser galleries lately, maybe you could start posting to them again? That would be nice. ;-)

Well, if New Line is smart, they won't pull a WB and send cease-and-desist to fansites (like what WB did to all the Buffy fansites a long while back). Nothing like alienating the fans who are keeping your movie the #1 box-office hit by seeing it 16 times.

Well, and that's just it EsnRedshirt, most of the large fansites have gained permission from New Line Cinema, and it's a refreshing thing to see that they are following the rules and actually asking for permission instead of just thinking that if it's out there they can use it. And frankly even if they did take a hard line, I don't think that it would effect the movies one iota. Why would we as fans, as artists, complain about them trying to protect their copyright? When we would do the same if it were our images? My concern is the taking of the images and putting them into artwork and them displaying them in the galleries, whether it be here, or another gallery. However innocent, it is copyright violation. There is no explaining that away. Fan Art is a highly volitile subject right now, especially at SciFi/Fantasy conventions...the minute it goes up for display it becomes a copyright violation. You can render/draw/paint and keep it for yourself and hang it in your house to your heart's content, or give it to a friend for a Christmas present, but the moment it's on public display it is a violation of their rights. NLC is very explicit...even putting in the word "uploading" And to make it a bit worse, Gollum is a 3d/digital composition so we are in fact in this case, violating a copyright of several digital artists...that kinda sucks doesn't it? There was another one the other day, very blatent..the image of Arwen holding Frodo on her horse at the river...this one had a Poser face superimposed on it..the rest was pure NLC's image. Everyone thought that was great too, even asked how they did the clothing. The author of that violation never even said "oh it's an image" but rather through her silence took the kudos and the oohs and ahhhs and never once admitted that it was not her own work. It took me 10 seconds to realize that it was an image and not a poser render...and my eyes are not that good...and yet either no one else noticed or they didn't care. And this is a good artist in her own right. Several of us posted about it and the image was taken down. The point being through this crazy rant is this....a copyright violation, is a violation,is a violation. Just because we bought a movie ticket doesn't mean we own the movie. I do not understand why we think it is okay to do this, when it's not okay to take someone else's image, rework it and put it up, whether or not we admit it is not our work or not... Oh and Poppi, I've not done a Vikki in the temple image, although I'm really tempted...just so I can use all the temples I seem to have accumulated/purchased LOL!! xoconostle is correct (by the way I remember that image you did it was a nice job) when he says there are some of us that don't really do them. The problem is tho, since most of us that don't do them aren't in that Poser "class" that always gets lots of looks and lots of comments, our works go pretty much unnoticed and uncommented on. That would probably explain why I hadn't posted anything in my gallery for six months until the other day. Where I got a whopping 3 comments on it...guess my Vic3 wasnt nekkid enough.... Okay, I'll shut up now...but this could be a really good discussion on copyright etc...and where we all draw the line and where we should as artists draw the line. And actually this does bring up another point...if we were to make a 3d model that was the likeness of Gollum....could we sell it? Thanks for listening :) Pendy

my creativity for doing poser seems to have died. i used to have an idea in my head...and would do my best to make it. lately, not many ideas....although, i do like 3d...and, maybe, have...just the little edge of a render idea peeking through. i think i need to listen to more music. that used to inspire me. now, it's like...come home...flick on tv for noise value...and let it crackle until i go to sleep.

You can do it Poppi, I know you can : ) As you said, listen to some music, put those headphones on :) just open Poser up and play for a while...stay away from the galleries and forums for a few days and that will help much more then you will ever know. Recapture that excitement of just playing without any end in mind and it will come sweetie, I know it will. I've been there, done that, wanted to just format and get rid of everything....I did those things that I just suggested and it helped, it really did. Pendy

stay away from the galleries and forums for a few days and that will help much more then you will ever know yes, i know this is a good part of what is bothering me. you know, i want to post, and have people actually look....but, i just don't want to do the same type thing that is currently getting the most looks....i've been working on my modelling, and actually won november's rhino challenge...yayyyy...got a renderosity mug. but, you know...i did not even post the render of my winning model to any of the galleries...just to the rhino forum. a big part of me is very sad about this place, i think. on the up side...i've been having fun with v3...and made a couple cute little outfits for her...but, see, to post a pic of her and her cutie little outfits would be more same ol' same ol'....i need a fairy of inspiration to land between my ears.

one more thing: i wanted to use a texture i had gotten from dmentia, a good while back...and, my cd would not open...no prob, i thought...i went to freestuff, where it had been originally....her stuff is all gone, as is so much other really quality freestuff. that made me very unhappy. might be time for me to do a swan song, here, for real.

Well, contact Dmentia about it, I'm sure she would oblige you :) My take on the "everything is the same in the gallery" thingy is, if you do something that you like well enough to have others look also, it doesn't really matter if it's been done before or not. Each artist brings something of themselves to the same ole theme, whether it's new lighting, a new sword or something. It doesn't make it any less art then something no one else has done before. I do fantasy, so my stuff is always going to have elves, faeries, dragons, swords, wizards...something that is the same formula that fantasy is. But in the end, all I can do is please myself and hope that when I put it out, others like it too. But as I said, I don't get a whole lot of comments on my stuff anyway, so in reality, maybe no one else likes it except me LOL!!! Geez...maybe that's what people are trying to tell me. I would love to see a faery from you with the cutie outfits that you made for her :) Go for it and don't worry about what has been done or hasn't been done. Just worry about you and what you bring and not what everyone else brings. To continually worry and suffer about what goes on here and in the galleries does nothing for your creativity as an artist and just breeds frustration and aggravation which again is death to creativity. And this place is not worth the loss of your creativity, trust me on this one. No site is worth that. Every artist here would agree to that I'm sure. Talk to your muse...you've lost contact and she's pissed because you haven't paid enough attention to her. They are fickle that way :) But if you promise her your allegience once again, she'll come back...slowly tho' cuz she'll want to teach the mere human a lesson, but come back she will. Do your own dance, and don't worry about the house coming down around your ears. If it does, there are other places to go and hang the art you make. :) Congrats on your winning the Rhino thing, that's way cool:) Pendy

pendy...thank you soooo much. i think this is where i have been falling down: Talk to your muse...you've lost contact and she's pissed because you haven't paid enough attention to her. until shortly after 9-11 i worked for myself, by myself. after 9-11 i joined up with a friend, and, now, i must daily go to an office. i go to an office that is in a building that has been being remodelled since before i moved in. and, like everyone else, i worry about making money. this economy isn't too swell...and war worries don't make it any better. i work hard to make it on my own, without a check from someone. and, sometimes, well, not lately, thank goodness...but, in the past, i have been pretty frightened. the only reason that i am not still frightened is that i have proven to myself that i can "go figger" enough to get me by. that feels very good. i think my attention has been very divided. i must survive. i'd like to prosper...and, maybe, each evening, when i get home...i don't have a whole lot of "me" left for creativity. still, i don't really envy those among us who can stay home and upload their 3 render quota, each day. thanks for the pep talk....i took your advice...and, finally really PLAYED with my christmas presents. i already was in love with v3...but, wow...that bombshell hair...omg...such possibilities. and, yes, now i do have a render on my mind. thanks, so much Poppi...who has been waaay too serious ;*)

Good for you!!!! You are very welcome. This is the essence of the community and not just this one but all of them. Helping each other and holding each other up when it's needed. That's what it's all about. :) I stay at home, I'm lucky that way. The thought of going to an office and having to punch that ole time clock would drive me crazy and yeah pretty soon, my muse would not be around either. As it is she's been scarce for me lately too, although I'm not quite sure why. 3 renders a day?? Wow, I'm lucky to get one a month hehehehe... Yeah V3 will get your creative juices flowing, she's quite something, I love her too. I just wish I could model so I could work on some LOTR type dresses for her. I'm around if you want to talk some more, I'm always more then willing to help a fellow artist out and put them back in touch with their muse if I can. :) HUGS Now quit being so darn serious!!! Get that Pop back in Poppi! Deb

Thanks for the nice comments about the image, and moreover, thanks for that copyright info - that does clearly state that my image may well be an infringement on their copyright, despite it's unpretentions and 'homage'. I will temporarily remove Gollum until a new original version is finished. The funny thing is - if I replace this photo of Gollum with a hand (digital) painted one, that copies (for the most part) it, I will not be infringing any copyright, and noone will be any the wiser anyway! :) Btw, I have been making a V3 Gollum based on the filmic one, and will have to make some custom morphs to complete a satisfactory character. Ultimately, an exact likeness would not be my goal since that again would infringe copyright.

Yeah, Gollum so lends himself to renders using your products Adam, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Remember also when you are naming him, to name him something different LOL!! Pendy

"If he makes a Gollum 3D character and tries to sell it, he should give New Line Cinema a percentage (after he gets their permission to sell it, of course). " Gollum is the literary creation of JRR Tolkien. Hundreds of artists have been inspired to create images of Tolkien's work. New Line Cinema and WETA just being the latest and most widely distributed. In fact, their gollum (and an awful lot of the films' visual design) is very similar to the 1970's animated feature of LOTR. If kromekat wanted to make a charcter that was very similar in design to the WETA Gollum, and called it something else - he wouldn't owe NLC a thing.

That's right, as long as he didn't call it Gollum :)

Golum, Gollun or Golam then!? :)

Hate to seem ignorant, but doesn't the designer of the "look" of the creature have any rights? I know, for example, that the Boris Karloff version of the Frankenstein monster could not be used by Christopher lee many years later because the make up was protected. Just calling the monster "Fred" wouldn't have been enough to allow someone else to use the same appearance.

This is all academic really, since any poser version of Gollum I create will be for my own renders only, and therefore I will not be infringing copyrights.

Well, the "Look" of gollum was "designed" by JRR Tolkien himself when he describes the character in LOTR. Anyone who does a Gollum character that is faithful to the book is going to end up with something similar to WETA's gollum. As I said - their's is very similar to the 1970's animated feature version, and also John Howe's version, etc, etc...

Well, goes to show you. I never read LOTR - but it strikes me still that the design of the character in the film would probably have proprietary rights attached to it. I wouldn't assume otherwise without some kind of release in hand. Actually, the idea that you can't infringe on copyright by using them for your personal use isn't accurate either. If you post the graphics on the web or in public view (if anyone views them except yourself, in other words), you can still hit up against copyright laws. That's why all those staionary and graphics people who borrow graphics from this site to use in their own personal works are still breaking copyright. The rights were not reassigned to them so they have no rights to the images. What's fair is fair. I think kromekat has so much talent that a much better, original character could be created rather than imitating the movie version. But that's just me.

Well thanks dialyn! - My intention was to base the character on the movie version, and then go from there, it's inevitable that he will change, especially when I create custom morphs, as I will be lead by my own ideas of his form too - and when it comes to texturing, that will alter his appearence quite a lot anyway.

well, that's what he's said he's doing. So everyone should be happy. :)

sorry adam - cross posted

No probs Pete! :)