Okay Shermie I'll state it a bit better :-)

Do these tests taking into account what material a mesh is simulating?

Do we expect a suit of armor to posed in the same way as a tube dress?

It really must have taken some effort to break the mesh with simple side pose or is that not with the image shows?

I'll post a render as well, hold on..

SideBend.

BackBend.

Do we expect a suit of armor to posed in the same way as a tube dress? ummmm if it's conformable. and supposed to move with the pose. Yes. Shaking head that last image looks like a polygon is assigned to a wrong group. and moves with the group it is assigned to which is pretty standard problem when creating clothing of anykind.

note(meaning ironbear's image not jeffh's)

Still doesn't look like you've moved the arms Jeff. Move the arms and then post a render.

He's not moving the abdomen side-side any... the arms have nothing to do with it. ;] STraight pose, with the side-side built into it: the pose is one of Morris' from the Kyrie package. [Character rotated 175 degreess to show the back] Side-side on the hips and/or chest don't do it. Neither does rotation on the abdomen, so far - only side-side movement. The next image is a composite, same pose, with side-side, and with side-side set to 0 degrees.

It's the abs. ;] Guess that makes it your return off the serve, Jeff? ;] Btw, on a well conforming item what it's supposed to simulate shouldn't matter - armor or cloth - in Poser 4. This isn't soft body dynamics. If it conforms well, it should follow normal human body movements *including* acceptable twist/bend/side to side without tears or crushes. It may look funny in plate mail, but I can run any number or Xurge's armor suits through normal poses without tearing and crushing. Ditto for items from lot of people. You are not doing Rosity nor the store here any favors by digging yourself in deeper with tricky render games trying to cover the testing hoseup, we can do this untill one of us loses patience. Actually, you can - I already did and went over your head. It didn't take a tall reach.

"Do we expect a suit of armor to posed in the same way as a tube dress?" Absolutely yes! I can understnad some texture stretching in these positions, but not the mesh breaking up. Those are not extreme poses.

My Renders are side to side at -24 (and +24 degrees).

I guess it depends if the user is trying to break the mesh or use it properly.

-Jeff

Just for the record if one were to go by Jeff's concept for testing as "armor vs cloth" this would still be wrong. The bodice is not armor - it's cloth - a leather bodice with chainlinks. Not steelplates :oD

We shall see Jeff, Questor's images (that he sent Clint) were only 10 degree bends in some of them and it still did this. I also don't appreciate the implication that I was "trying" to break the mesh I was "trying" to create an image for a poster request. All of this simply threw my scheduling off.

I guess it depends if the user is trying to break the mesh or use it properly. raising eyebrow sooo at least 4 users are trying to break it? Jeff we all know that things work differntly on your system than it does on anyone elses. can you get another tester to so the same tests and post renders?

Ok - Hold the phone... :) (Clint reaches in his back pocket and throws out the yellow flag) Time out. I'm gonna test it. Give me 1 hr. Thanks, Clint

Well,

I don't appreciate merchant "assassination" as it has been done here.

I tried to help you as best I could, but you were only interested in smearing this merchant at all costs.

"it's obvious he won't fix it.

So I will simply post images of the product on every website forum, here in the product forum and the product showcase gallery and in all galleries.."

Yes Clint will handle it from here, I'm done.

-Jeff

yup Jeff I did say that - because you basically said there was no problem and that he didn't have to fix any of the issues, except the top referencing a non-valid file - so I had no recourse but to take it public. Considering his refusal to deal with the matter himself in the first place and your blessing on the products it seemed obvious he wouldn't fix them. I actually was going to post it in the product showcase Gallery. I felt kind of bad about that - I said I was going to do that and I generally do what I say I will, but this time Id ecided that I really only wanted member feedback in regards to your testing standards. I also admitted in the threads on this that I said I would do that and thus I did exactly that. The only way to get this resolved was to post the images, you also never addressed the need for geometry files to be in the geometries folder - no surprise there. "I don't appreciate merchant "assassination" as it has been done here." So tell me Jeff - since you refused to acknowledge any issues with 2 of the 3 products and only a partial problem with the top (didn't address the geometry placement issue) exactly what should I have done? So why don't you take Clint's advice and back off and let him handle it?

Since this is going on for another day.. I'll have to remind LadySilverMage of one more thing that's she's totally missed! Since the clothing worked on my own system similarly to JeffH's renders and I didn't notice any major flaw or else I'd ask BVH myself to fix ( and God only knows how close I came to earn the title of a "bitch" by sending back to steveshanks items way too often when still in PWFW), I have to remind you that if ANY kind of modification is carried out to the mesh as is.. it will ruin its UVmapping completely because to be edited it will have to be weld once again! You see.. I've been there before! That leaves two choices afterwards.. either you get just the item with silver reflections and NO textures.. either I turn myself into a joggler trying to achieve the impossible and recreate similar mapping to two pixels accuracy! Which is totally out of the question for me.. I can't spend the time to redo all that and to be totally frank ..I don't have the heart for it anylonger.. not after all this! So LSM.. bottom line is that in all actuality..you didn't kill BVH's sales or image in this thread.. you just gave a good "friendly" blow below the belt to the texturer involved! VL sad grin And no.. I don't intend to reply any further.. I need some peace of mind to texture on than getting involved to endless arguments.:( Rena

"I don't appreciate merchant "assassination" as it has been done here" I don't either thank you very much. But until this issue is resolved I have a stake in this. Baron kind of assassinated himself Jeff.

Sorry Rena I'm not following you - I didn't edit or change anything to that file and to be honest this is about more than the POWL - it's about the geometry folders as well. And about Jeff's handling of this. Nor was I trying to kill his sales - I said often enough that his designs - all of them, are gorgeous. That isn't exactly "merchant assasination" or an attempt to undermine anyone. Furthermore I thought this thread was dead as well I had already come to terms with Clint on this matter. But I'm not going to ignore implications that I was trying to do something that I wasn't and frankly don't have the time for anyhow. I wasn't "throwing blows" anywhere - only responding to Jeff's implications. I did not post any new images and I did not ask anyone to do so either. I was just working minding my own business waiting to hear from Clint when I saw all this going around again.

Ohhh Kay.

Just spent some quality time on the phone with Jeff.
We tested together and played with some settings.

From what we can tell the mesh is fine however, There appears to be some problems with the Joint Parameters that cause the bulge in the Bodice when moving the Vicky 2 abdomen Side to Side.

I can make it work fine if:
I set the Vicky 2 HipSoften morph from 1.000 to 0.000
and use the Adbomen to make Bend's and the Chest to make Side to Side poses.

However - If I use the Abdomen to do Side to Side it bulges the bodice as noted.

After examining the Joint Parameter settings of the Bodice it appears this can be resolved by tweaking the JP's properly.

Here is what we are going to do.
Jeff will work with the JP's a little more to help get the merchants pointed in the proper dierction on this.
He will E-mail both rena, Baron and me with this information.

We fully expect the merchant to adjust the JP's and submit a updated product file to us as soon as they can.

Once the product file has been updated we will reset all previous buyers downloads so that everyone can get the corrected version.

I want to appologize for this getting so out of hand and having so many people spend time on this.

We are going to do the right thing and get the product fixed ASAP.

Thanks to everyone for bring this issue to light.

Clint

Thank you Clint.

Whew...Your welcome. Clint

Good enough for me, on this aspect, Clint.