You all wanted to know what is happening at corel and what the future of Bryce may be. Well I sent Conan Hunter two emails, the second one telling him of the threads here at Renderosity. I sent the second one this morning and here is his reply:- "Warning, be prepared for a shock" Hi Catlin-- Sigh What can I say? I'm not doing Bryce anymore; I'm in Corel's New Ventures group developing new technologies that have nothing to do with 3D... I've even lost my Renderosity login, it's been so long. In fact, nobody is now in charge of Bryce, or working on it. It's on "hold" as far as any work being done on the product. I don't think it's much of an executive topic, either. There's not much more I can tell you from Corel's standpoint; I'm sorry. For myself, I could speak bravely about the state of the technology economy and Corel getting its house in order, and I could go on about the eternal conundrum of Bryce not fitting into a nice tidy demographic for marketing's requirements, and I could even talk about the challenge of splitting Bryce into a professional art package and a kid's version (which was my long-term goal), but, you know, all I can really say is: I miss Bryce, I miss the technology, I miss the art, I miss the community, and I miss all the insanely cool people I got to work with while I was in Bryce's driver seat, and there's nothing I can do about the state of affairs right now but vent a little here and there and deal with all the incoming calls and emails like this I have endured for almost a year with a heavy sigh. No, I don't look into the forums any more, I stay away from the sites; it's kinda painful for me; even if Corel were to begin work on a new version of Bryce, it would in all likelihood be without me, since I am now fully committed to other projects. --Conan, signing off

Sad, absolutely sad.

What can we do? There must be someone in the organization who we could contact on mass and try to get them to see the possibilities with Bryce. I would truely hate for this to be the end of such a great program, I love it and I love to work with it. If there are no more updates to Bryce what will take it's place?, I don't like Vue or Terragen or Mojoworld, I've tried them and always come back to Bryce. This was a response I didn't want to hear and I am greatly saddened by it. Catlin

There are two people who could possibly pick up Bryce. Ken Musgrave - it is his algorithms that drive Bryce terrains and textures. Eric Wenger - he took Ken's alogrithms and made them into Bryce 1 and 2. Eric has a good thing going at U&I software, but who knows - he might still be interested. Corel is way too focused on survival and office apps and Bryce no longer fits in to their plan. This is sad but Ken or Eric could swoop in and pick it up - you never know. Of course Corel needs to put something out officially and stop waffling about this. Scott

I go back to what I said on the other most recent Bryce update posting: It doesn't fit with what Corel wants to do. Having said that... I think it could be a really cool thing to find a buyer. If anyone has any connection with someone in another company for whom Bryce would be a better fit we should work that angle. PARTICULARLY because if we could pull that off, the new company would have a GREAT marketing campaign right out of the gate..."We bought the product from Corel because the user community asked us to" The trick would probably be that right now Bryce doesn't cost Corel anything...or next to nothing, since there is no work happening on the product. That would mean a potential buyer might have to offer some co-marketing insentives or preferred partneship arrangements...sorry, software development and product marketing have been my gig for too long now. I'll hush. But I really think it could work...

It saddens me to hear that as well. But, when I look at all the new and interesting things people are trying to bend bryce into doing the few months I have been here, even if there is not a bryce 6, I think this place will live on quite a lot longer solely (if necessary) due to the inventiveness and creativity shown by its users, new and old.

This is downright depressing! I just can't believe that one of the finest, reasonably priced 3D art packages is going into extinction. There must be someone out there that could take it over!

Oh, the exsisting versions of Bryce will always be used. Ken Musgrave, doubt it. Whatever more he wanted to do with Byrce he instead did with Mojoworld. For him to try and help out Bryce is to create competition with his current product. But, this is just a guess by me. Eric Wenger is knee deep into his audio products, he doesn't really speak of Bryce much anymore in his interviews, even when asked of it. Who knows? Bryce is probably costing Corel a lot. I mean, if they did spend 3 million on it, that is going to cost them until they make than 3 million with Bryce sales. Someone would have to purchase Bryce from them for asking price AND whatever Corel hasn't yet made back, just so Corel could break even. AS

I IMed Susan Kitchens about this too. Perhaps if people who know a bit more about Bryce than us end users joined us, and we could make a sure fire business proposition to present to all involved, we could maybe persuade someone else to take Bryce on and improve this bleak situation. I think all reasonable propositions should be aired here, and hopefully we can come up with a solid plan of action. Catlin

I know this is grasping at straws, but what if we swamped Adobe?

Adobe would be a closer fit simply due to the fact that more people use PS in post production...or seem to anyway. But Adobe is also going into more of an office application direction and high end artist direction. AS, good call on the cost of the original investment...I was thinking more from a day to day operations standpoint. It kinda depends on how they booked the original purchase, they may have already written it all off as loss. I'm thinking a good fit might be someone more geared toward educational based software. I seem to hear a good deal about school licenses of Bryce.

AS - And Mojoworld sales are through the roof?? You never know - Corel would definitely sell it as a loss and write off the investment so the original buying price would not be what they would get. Before Corel picked up Bryce Eric Wenger was very active on the boards and posted a Father of Bryce post calling it 'his baby' etc. Wenger still owns the rights to his versions of Bryce - only the UI was MCs and Corel's property. Wenger still owns the guts of Bryce so don't count him out. - Scott

So how do we get in touch with these guys?

I wonder what it would take to get everyone together and call a couple of venture cap people? And, if Poser goes cheap, it would be great to integrate them.

If one of us wins the lottery or comes into an inheritance soon we could buy it..........forgive me I like to dream. :} Catlin

Really? (Eric Wenger) Well.....that info helps my funk. I'm not sure if Corel would sell Bryce at a point where they would have yet another loss, while their company is in the red already. But, then again, maybe they would see it as any money coming in would be a good thing, I just don't know. Mojoworld is getting REALLY good reviews, I don't know about sales.

Venture guys typically won't make a play on a product as much as they will on the leadership of an organization. In this case you'd have to find a VC interested enough to work on doing the buyout from Corel...in order to interest them enough to make that play you'd probably have to show a core group of folks who would run the company after you bought the product. With that core in place it wouldn't be too hard to show a ready user base so the trick would be to find a VC who was cowboy enough to help make the Corel play. If one of the guys mentioned above by AS were interested for example...that might be enough to perk the ears of a VC.

this sucks

well i for one wont be stopping using the versions of Bryce currently available to produce graphics. the only thing i really needed Bryce to do was perhaps some improved modelling and animation apps, like bones etc. but i can combine 3ds imports from rhino or ACAD to get the models i want and i guess i'll have to get around to digging out again and Mastering animation MAster for character work. So i'll still be posting Bryce for many many years. ( Or maybe i should try this Pencil thing i hear its quite adaptive.... tee hee)

You won't be able to stop me from using it, I'm sure most of us feel this way. We'd of course, like to see it continue to grow and assimilate some of the newer 3D technology that exsists today. Just because we all love it, and love using it. Ah, watch Corel make profits this year and start production of Bryce again... I actually don't think they will sell it. Look what they did with Painter and KPT. They held on to that stuff for a long time, now Painter 8 is coming out and KPT is a part of that. AS

I love your optimism AS and I agree that if the worst happens it won't stop me using bryce. There are really only two things I would really like to see in a new Bryce and that is a faster render engine and the ability to export my models in another format. Cat

Well this just sucks, hopefully they'll relegate it to procreate and they'll develop Bryce...one can always hope.

That's really too bad about Bryce. It's my first 3D digital love and it's sad to see she doesn't have a date for the prom. In my opinion, it was a big mistake for the marketing department of Corel to buy it in the first place. Bryce 5 wasn't a big set-up from Bryce 4.

Writers for the Bryce 4 books (at least the ones I read) said they would wait for a Bryce 6 until they wrote another book because of the minimal new options and features. There were a few and not enough to make it a new book.

I really think that Bryce had serious potential for the pro-users and could have benefited greatly by the creation a Bryce Heavy and a Bryce Lightlong ago.

For individual programmers that previously worked on Bryce to pick it up for nostalgia sake is too far fetched, especially when they have other projects on their plate.

I think the best chance Bryce has for a new home is Curious Labs for integration with Poser. This move would make the most sense given the amount of Bryce/Poser out there. The program could be like Lightwave. A modeler program (Poser) that exports to a scene editor (Bryce) with a virtual Hub in the middle synchronizing the transport.

B

Bryce's best options would be companies like eovia or Curious Labs. And maybe a little un-orthodox: The open source community. I send an e-mail to Ken 'Doc Mojo' Musgrave to let him know about this thread and I asked him if he had any professional knowledge or ideas about what we could do to keep bryce alive. Let's hope he has some killer-ideas.

That's great Rayraz, this is what we need to make a realistic impact on the future of Bryce. If we can get folk like Ken involved there might be a chance of reviving interest in the potential Bryce has. Another thing that came to mind was that many prople here are also members of other forums so we could get them involved too. Just a thought, but the more people who are showing an interest in the revival of Bryce the better. Cat

Hypothetically, it might just be that if someone other than Corel owns the rights to the source code, Corel is just waiting for the asking price if that code to go down. If the holder of the source code figures out that the only way to realize any return is to sell the code to Corel at the price Corel is willing to pay, there might yet be hope for Bryce 6. It seems to me that Eric Wenger would be the one to ask about this (as per scotttucker3d).

What about Kai Krause?

You mean the Kai's Tools guy? Sounds good to me.

The reason I mention KK is that he really was the 'face' of bryce at metacreations. Not only was he very active in the graphics community in general but he was responsible for designing the bryce interface. If he was to become involved with bryce again I think it would be more for artistic than commercial reasons. Weather or not he would be interested is another matter, as he seems to be deeply involved in his own projects. This as far as I can work out, is his 'web site'. http://www.byteburg.com/

(sobs)

re: http://www.byteburg.com/ you'l find more info if you clik on the german language link.

My son told me that POSER 5 just got Industrial Recognition 'cos it's used in the movie industry for storyboarding. There's hope for Bryce yet! The Bryster

Bites tongue

Well we knew it just didnt want to believe it...I say let DAZ try and get it so they can build a module that will let Bryce run as a side application....Well I now know to go into the bigger Apps...I am starting to save for Maya and Imagine...Until the day I can afford the real thing I will start using the Light Versions just to get Recognition in the Industry...Any wyas anyway you look at it Bryce is still one major 3D program and it lighting abilities are boundless...And folks who knows maybe just maybe some Programers will get together to develope MODULES to import animations into Bryce....?

Well, IMHO...fuck Corel! We dont need them! We already have one of the most versatile 3D applications available in our hands! Features, that you need plugins for, in high end apps, are already present in Bryce, and the few things it lacks, we use other programs for! Granted, a faster renderer would be nice, but cpus are getting faster by the week. I for one have only skimmed(?) the surface of Bryces full capability, and have no intention of stop using it. Corel have already proved many times over, that they dont give a crap about us (the users), and if they put Bryce to rest and rely on the crap app Corel Draw to save them, i only say...Good Luck, Corel are doomed already! Now, all i miss is a snapshot of their management, placed next to the word "stupidity", in every dictionary...

ditto what he said 8D

Attached Link: http://alanbaughman.com/Bryce_5/index.html

WHO D' MAN!!!!!!!!! Yeah Rochr!! I agree 100%. ROFLMAO

Ack... gotta wonder what the heck that means! What makes this all rather interesting is that in the past, Eric Wegner owned the license to the "core" TE and DTE routines and everything else was presumably owned by MC then Corel. I have no insider info here at all but generally speaking if someone defaults on a license agreement or fails to renew it, it reverts back to the owner. Even though this is just idle specualtion and is hopefully wrong, that would be the most shocking thing that I could imagine. But it wouldn't stop me from using B5 as it is. -Dan

There's actually not anything more I can think of that I'd want from Bryce feature-wise so this isn't necessarily tragic. It's the most STABLE of the programs I use, has a lovely renderer, extremely good texturing options, great animation capabilities... All around a fine, fine product (especially Bryce5 but even Bryce4). By using it with my other 3D apps (Carrara, Amapi, Strata, Poser), I'm pretty much set. So this news, ; no big whoop. However, if you are still a Bryce 4 user, I'd buy Bryce 5 pronto perhaps. : ) Dave

Yeah, it's not like Bryce is incapable of great things without an update. An exmaple I (never shut up about) er, give...is the "Rustboy" 3D animation being made with the long ago abandoned "Infini-D" software. (also originally from MetaCreations) http://www.rustboy.com/ AgentSmith

Rochr, let it out, man. Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. hehe Haven't been around much lately because the current state of affairs in our country has kept a lot of my former free time occupied. Working in a high activity/target area 2 miles from the scene of Sep 11, has kept my cohorts and I very busy. I see things this way. Yeah, it sucks about Bryce not being further developed in the future, but so what. Look at the things that we have been pumping out in this forum. The artwork here rivals some of the $2000-3000 programs. Look at the work in HDRI that some of our crew has been doing. Amazing isn't it? In a sense, we are being forced to push Bryce past what it's creators originaly intended, but it's by our own choice. Look at some of the textures and models that peopel have been making. Did Corel intend that when they made Bryce? Probably not. What I am saying is what Rochr said, FUCK COREL. Let them come to this forum and see the things that are beign created. Let them go to the galleries and have a look around. We all know there are some artists out there that blow us all away with the work they do. Let's just take Bryce and milk it for all we can and not worry about what some wanker exec thinks should be done.

Yeah, i tend to get carried away! LOL But seriously, im with you! People here are constantly pushing Bryces bounderies further ahead, so who really knows where its limits are! Bryce will be around, long after the name Corel is forgotten!

Maybe I should have posted this here: Emotions are running high right now with Catlin's news, but the FACT is Bryce has always been about a Community not an application. This community aspect dates back to 1993-1994 when I was tuckersaur on AOL and the AOL chatroom for HSC/Bryce was jumping with new discovery. Just like you do here - we were constantly pushing each other and what could be created in Bryce. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make ocean waves in Version1. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make an actual working telescope in Bryce2. It was the community that pushed Bryce to make the very first desktop video production of Planetary Traveler. Never lose sight of that - Bryce5 could very well be the last one, but the community will continue to make it viable - the community will continue to make it enjoyable - the community will continue to take it beyond an ordinary piece of software. Without the community Bryce is just a basic 3d program that has no modeler and a slow renderer. Sure it allows model imports, but how on earth did it survive this long? I'll tell you what you already know. It took the community to see that the Terrain Editor is very cool modeler and the skies are a ready made lighting system. It took the community to look past render speed and see the beauty in Bryce renders. In the hands of the community Bryce is religion, Bryce is life! Bryce is who we all are inside. Bryce is the ONLY software I've seen that inspires such loyalty and freedom. It never ceases to amaze me how far the community has taken it. Keep taking it further - rumors of its death are highly premature. Scott : )

Can we get an AMEN!

I think that if Corel had to sell Bryce it should go to DAZ3d because they are actually listening to the customer's input, while other companies (Cough cough Curious Labs cough) will not even consider using OpenGL or releasing sub par programs to make money. :)

Where's the Bryce God when you need him/her! 8D

Well....I can only say I am in shock and I also am willing to get together and buy Bryce with a whole bunch of people...As long as Doc is interested we all should be....

I pledge the cost of my next upgrade in advance to whomever takes it on. I love my Bryce. Nothing will make me part with it!

Hmm...wonder if Corel is going to be represented at Siggraph in SanDiego this year...I know I'll be there anyways... AgentSmith

Hey tuckersaur...I used to be NOTDAVIDS on AOL...a long time ago...:) Long Live Bryce.... Other than MC going poof, this Corel thing has been about the worst possible outcome for Bryce anyway....Corel has never been in the community spirit....