I've finally had enough of cranky mice and ancient art packages, so I'm looking at buying a Wacom and either Photoshop 7 or Painter 8. No way can I afford a new Wacom so I'm bidding on ebay ATM for an A5 version. Same with Photoshop, although I may be able to buy Painter 8 new as it's cheaper than 7. So a question... Of the people that use Wacoms / tablets, do you really recommend them? Are they much easier to use than a mouse, and if so, do you need an A4 or will an A5 do the trick? I probably can't afford even a second-hand A4, but there's no point getting an A5 if it's too small. And does anyone use Painter? The best digital stuff I've seen was done with Painter (check out Michael Shillett on digitalart - holy crap!) but it's supposed to be difficult to use (or rather v7 was, apparently v8 is incredible). Photoshop gets 5 stars on every review, but is it really that good for painterly art - what I'm interested in - or is it most good for image editing? I must say, I have Adobe Illustrator 10 and it's near impossible to use and really buggy, so I'm no fan of Adobe! So any advice would be appreciated. And pretty fast, 'cos the bidding expires soon!! ;)

I believe that graphire comes with painter classic and photoshop 6 LE . As for the tablet, go for it, you won't regret it one bit

Although, Photoshop and Painter share characteristics, Photoshop is way more an editor than a natural painting program, and Painter is way more a natural painting program than a 2D editor. But, both can kinda do the same thing. Yet, with a tablet, I assume you will be doing 2D cgi sketching/painting/drawing (at times)? If so, I suggest getting Painter 8 and then also using the free Photoshop LE that comes with the tablet if need be. I myself have only tried a demo of Painter 7 (and I own Photoshop 7), but Painter was nothing short of amazing as far as replicating traditional media in the compouter. Just can't say enough about it in that way! AgentSmith

Cool, thanks for the input. It looks like a tablet is the way to go, and Painter 8 also. Yeah, I'm looking for the natural paint look, my thinking being that whilst I still want to use Bryce, I'd like to move towards using Bryce renders just as "guides" rather than finished images. I'll have to check out the cheapest prices for Painter 8. It's pretty good that it's cheaper than 7 but I'll still have to sell a load of stuff on ebay to afford it! :

If you are strapped for money try www.aiptek.com for a tablet. You can get a bigger size and for a much lower price. It comes with a wireless (battery) mouse and pen with the following software for the 12000 (12 X 9) CADIX Art Dabbler Office Ink Free Notes Netmeeting Ulead Photoimpact 5SE Ulead Photo Express 3.0 $139 USD Though I really haven't used mine yet to any extent I agree they are well worth it.

Aldaron - thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

tuttle, I'd avoid any program that has LE or SE in its name. Usually, and I repeat, usually, those programs are mutilated and maimed versions of full programs. Photoshop, as AgentSmith told you, is mainly an image editing program. But ... there are tons of useful, interesting, cool plugins that enable you to create incredible images just in Photoshop alone. And it's a far cry from Illustrator.

Unless you need all the bells and whistles, you can get Photoshop Elements 2 for about $100 US at any software outlet, probably cheaper online. If there's anything missing from the full Photoshop that I need, I have no idea what it would be.

Aye, I use Painter 5 and Photoshop 5. Photoshop 7 adds mainly vector graphics, but as I already have Illustrator 7 I have little need to upgrade, so far. Just bought the Flaming Pear plugins, and they are addictive! Tuttle, honestly get them BOTH if possible! Try Half-Price Books, if there are any in your area. You could probably buy both, legally even, for less than a hundred bucks! In fact, that's how I got into Bryce in the first place, I found Bryce 3D (It Moves!) and Poser 3 for about 50 bucks a piece! And the lady at the counter was nice enough to take my name and number, then she called me when someone brought in Photoshop, and then Painter! I also nailed Illustrator, Kai's Power Show, Kai's Photo Soap (nearly useless, but rookies will love it), Amorphium Pro, and Ray Dream Studio 5, all from the Tukwilla store! That was like three years ago, in the Golden Age of new software around these parts... If only I could have gotten a deal on my FIVE copies of Bryce 5! (cackles bitterly!) Painter paints like a dream, even with a mouse. Photoshop is without a doubt the most powerful software in it's genre, I mean there's a reason it's called PHOTOSHOP! Don't let the learning curves scare you, they work together very well... But alas, I know nothing about tablets. They scare me. I love my laser mouse! And a wireless mouse is useless for my other passion, gaming...

I work with and swear by my Wacom ArtPad Z (8"x6") with pen and mouse. Image editing would be impossible to me now without it! I use it in conjunction with Corel's PhotoPaint 9 (and I beg to differ with you opinion-wise shadowdragonlord! on the most powerful statement!) My full setup is Wacom tablet (serial port), Logitech 3 button (PS2) and Nostromo N50 (USB). Got everything from hardcore photo-manip to serious gib-making (Infiltration rules!) covered!

(grins at Incarnadine!) Aye, PhotoPaint is a great one, too... I used to use it, back in PP4, maybe? Good to see the program's still alive and in good hands! I can't say if PS5 is better, having never used it... But as long as it's not called Vue d'Paint or something stupid, I say go for it!

Ditto on what everyone said - I've had Wacoms for years and they are really great with Painter and Photoshop too - its just that PS has a kind of annoying pressure slider that works in concert with the built-in pressure sensitvity. Painter's pressure is set much more intuitively and works nicer. Painter's is set by actually test painting in the preferences dialog - I wish PS would do this too. Now - only if Bryce would support pressure sensitvity in the terrain editor. If there ever is a Bryce6 - having tablets finally work in the TE would be a must. Go for a tablet - you'll love it! Scott

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I'll see how it goes... :)

I got my little 4x5 Aiptek tablet at Fry's Electronics for thirty bucks and for the money it is great.

I have never used an Aiptek, so I can't really comment on them. I know I decided not to buy one because they don't offer accessories like Wacom does (airbrush pens, easy pen replacements, and so on.) If you buy a Wacom you generally get Photoshop Elements or Painter Classic. Elements, which my father has, seems to have most of the best features of Photoshop for basic image manipulation. You can upgrade to Painter 8 from Classic for about 100-150 bucks, depending upon where you buy it. I would say that a combo of Painter 8 and elements would get you the best bang for your buck.. most of what Painter does badly Elements does quite well and vice versa.

I must say I'm thinking about Painter 8 plus a second hand Wacom A5, if I can get both for under 300. I'll need to sell a kidney but it'll be worth it :)

Whose kidney? :^)

hopefully not mine! :)