Some of you might remember the big flap about using Poser stuff in the Maxis Game called "The Sims" awhile ago, and since then I've been asked about using some of my Poser stuff in the game by Fionn (a very nice person, BTW), and after I gave my permission I said I'd look into it. Which I did, facinating game! Being a technical type I had to find out about what makes it tick and how to make stuff for it, and all that jazz. The game runs real-time animation, pretty low res, and there a a bunch of limitations on what the game requires that pretty much insures that the Sims stuff can't be converted back to Poser. Putting Poser stuff in the game is also a problem with a lot of the newer hi-poly stuff, I gave up getting my Las-Vegas hair converted, but I did get the Sassy hair into the game, as you can see. Others have converted the every-popular Long Conforming Hair and my San-Francisco hair too, they both look very good if I do say so myself. ;-) However, all of the converted hair evadently pushes the game to the max, a Sim figure runs about 550 faces, the converted hair goes 4000-8000. I think it would be better to actually model low poly stuff for it, all the inner cylinders on my hair, for example are just throw-aways, as the program doesn't have any transparency settings. So, where all this is leading up too is- I did get a copy of Milkshake, the low-poly modeler you have to use (for at least file conversions), and started building some stuff. The figure in the black bikini is mine, the whole figure (not the head or hair) is 100% original mesh, not a conversion of the Maxis mesh in any way. I also did proper heels for her (all my girls wear heels!), which are done as a separate part, like in Poser, not an extrusion of the body mesh like all of the Maxis figures I've seen. The one in purple is a stock figure, to show the difference. The figure (with shoes) is a little less than double the face count of the stock figure barefoot. At the very least I hope my mesh is less stick-like (they are both using more-or-less the same texture, BTW.) O.K., now down to the nitty-gritty. I gather most Sims users aren't that much into spending money on extras, but most Poser users are. So, I wonder how many Poser users would be intrested in a Sims package, sort of like a Poser package, some new figures and textures? The mesh would be 100% new, not Maxis based, and I would claim the same kind of copyright that is claimed on Poser figures- no redistrubiting mesh, fine to make and distribute (and sell) textures for them, of course. I'm unsure at this stage if I'll make the figures take standard Sim textures, but they probably will, though. Oh, we are talking cheap here, too, like $10-20 for the whole set, with maybe 3 or 4 different female figures and heads with hair. What do you think?

Oh, here is the actual mesh in Posre, where you can see the differences better. See if you can figure out which is which. ;-)

Not a Sims player, but I am curious ... what do you think of MilkShape?

The Sims 2 is scheduled for release sometime early next year, and it'll increase the polycount somewhat.

Great work Jim! The Sims is indeed attractive and addictive, much like Poser. As processor speeds and RAM increase, the reality of higher res figures with real-time animation is coming very near. I think it is a great time to get into Low-poly modeling especially when SDS or micro-poly smoothing capability is introduced into realtime game engines, the results even with your mesh should be staggering. I say go for it! I'd be interested :-)

P.S. I'd say that yours is the figure on the left with the great gams! But I thought you were a breast man too, How about a breastsize8 morph for that cutie??

I thought Milkshake was pretty nice, actually. I'm still on the trial period, but I will be buying it, it is only $25 or so. It works the joint stuff too, more-or-less, which would be outside what you could do with a Max plugin, (if one was available), I gather. I did do most of the new figure in Max, though. Gee, ronstuff, you got me wrong, I'm really a leg man! ;-) The rest of your comments are right on the button, though. I've always thought I made efficent mesh, and doing the low poly stuff I find facinating. The NURBs modelers need not apply for this job! The one on the right is actually a composite of two of the Maxis figures, (you can see the seam) the original bottom was for a skirt, but this top part was about "breastsize8".

Jim: Try out the DirectX Mesh Tools (in the Tools menu) -- very useful for subdivision or poly-reduction.

HI Jim... Hence my name Simderella.... I have been active in the Sims community for a number of years and have my own site... I too own Milkshape and have been making meshes and skins for a while now... I would be VERY interested in such a package!! my site is here btw http://simderella.moonfruit.com And Fionn is a kewl guy!! Here is an example of my work... Great Idea... -SimderZ- xXx

love that new mesh btw.. I have GOT to have it.. hehehe wink

LD, I couldn't even get the mesh into the program, Milkshake can only handle (I think) about 8000-10,000 faces, the LV hair is something like 96,000! Max has a pretty good reducer too, but I couldn't get it down that far without killong the shape. Hey Simderella, looks great! What I would plan on doing would be to more-or-less duplicate the range of Maxis female figures, have a nude with heels (for bathing suit or similar textures), another with flats, another set up for a mini-skirt texture and another for a long gown (similar to what you show). What did you render this in, BTW? Fionn has been very nicely helping me out with some of my questions, this stuff is all new to me.

Yep, MilkSHAPE is the way to go for reasonably priced low-poly software. It can export for many different games, not just The Sims and the price is certainly right!

The limit's closer to 16000, actually, although MilkShape starts getting a little flaky as it approaches that number. There's also a hard limit to the number of vertices, groups, materials, and bones. #define MAX_VERTICES 8192 #define MAX_TRIANGLES 16384 #define MAX_GROUPS 128 #define MAX_MATERIALS 128 #define MAX_JOINTS 128 I'm looking forward to MilkShape 2.0, which should overcome these limitations.

Glad u like it Jim... Thats all my own texture work and mesh.. and i exported my figure from a program called SimPose and then into Poser ;) If you ever need any more questions answering i am always willing to help if i can... As i said i would be interested in ur meshes they look much nicer and more rounded yet they don't look like they would drag my system.. Although in the actual game the figures are so tiny u might not be able to tell... but I'd know.. and as you might gather from my textures i'm all about detail detail detail... lol... pixel by pixel.. i spend an age on my textures. hehe That pic i showed is my newest gal called Jaymi.... sure would like to give her a new, more rounded mesh... wink If you do sell these meshes i can tell you that many mesh creators and skinners would love to use them but i suspect you would get lots of emails about editing them, people in the sims community for the most part are resolute in giving credit and obtaining permission as they are in the poser community.. I would think as long as you get credit for the original mesh, any alterations would only further enjoyment and creativity... after all its a game and supposed to be fun!! but that would of course be ur call :) I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing more of ur idea's Once again i'm sooo thrilled you like my Sims ;) Best of Luck -SimderZ- xXx

Hmm... (*goes digging around on his harddrive...*) that looks familiar (*digs around some more...*) Ah, got it ;) If you're going to be doing SIMs meshes, then you're going to want my "BodyWarp" program ;). I quit developing it long ago, but the most recent version (pictured above, but I don't think I ever released it) imports and exports .obj files as well as .skn files, has a built-in UVMapper feature, lets you move individual vertices around (very simplistically), etc...

Oh wow, Simderella, that's you?! lol!! I've been Sim'ing for years, and have recently gone on a downloading craze. I just LOVE getting new things for the game, and I've visited your site several times. :D Simpose is pretty cool. I like the Sims Creator, though it's a bit limited. I wish it let you try all of the textures out on all of the meshes instead of forcing you to use the 'correct ones'. I use SimShow actually for my Mix and Match fun. Sadly I gave up on the Sims Online, but the Sims Superstar expansion, and of course Unleashed (I Love the Pets!) keep me playing the regular version. Jim I'd LOVE to see Sims stuff from you! And for the animal lovers out there, how about some new Sim pets? ;)

...you can also swap the UVMap window and the main modelling window ;).

lol!! Spanki, I remember that program! And being disppointed that I couldn't find it to download. :D

Hehe... yeah, it's been a while and my old SIMs site has been dead for ages. Basically, while working on BodyWarp, I was scouring the Net to find Bigger Breasts in .obj format (remember the Uber gals? ;)... anyway, I found this thing called "Poser" and, well... never looked back.

I remember the Ubers!! Scary. :D Yeah, Poser makes for making your own ultra SIMS without any attitude. ;) I must admit I really like building their homes and decorating 'em too though. Rosebud!!! :P

Lol. I was going to mention Spanki's BodyWarp (the Sims community is where I first ever had any dealings with him :D ) That looks like a way better version than the one that was released. That was ages ago... and hard to believe I was the first one to release in-game hand weapons props (figures I would do that :p ). BTW...looks like a great mesh Jim.

Actually, SimPose (SimPosium?) was written by a fella named Clive Pygott. Nice guy who helped me figure out the quaternion rotations needed to get the arms/feet/toes all pointing in the right directions in BodyWarp. Both of you have great looking meshes above, BTW.

LOL - this is getting to be a Sims Family Reunion! - to tell the truth, I had given up on Poser 1 and 2, so never paid much attention to it till I stumbled across some Poser 4 stuff while working on The Sims models and skins - same as Spanki, I never looked back. But it seems like the newer versions of The Sims are getting very interesting, so maybe it's time to really integrate Poser and Sims projects. Spanki, is your BodyWrap still available? If any of you have links to some of these newer tools please post them. this could be FUN!

I'm sure that Beta v.04 is still floating around at SimFreaks and other SIM sites, but I never released the version depicted above. I'm not sure if I can still compile it (it was written with DirectX 5 or 6 or something). I may look into it if I find some free time. BTW, just as an aside, I was doing a google search for something not long ago and found a Russian (?) site that completely ripped-off my old "Spanki's Skin Shack" web site, graphics and all. He even left some of the html page titles the same (dumb-ass). What's worse, he has his own 'copyright' splatted all over the page - what nerve. (I didn't bother to do anything about it - not really worth my time, so it's probably still up and running, I just found it interesting)

Attached Link: http://www.avangard-fit.narod.ru/index1.htm

Heh, I found it again... check out this link. Then note the title in your browser.

Here's the link to MilkShape (with Sims import/export capability):

http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

And one of many Sims resource sites:

http://www.thesimsresource.com/

Great, Spanki - It's still got your Skin Shack as the page title. Dumb guy can't even read HTML.

Yeah, I just sent him a nasty-gram afterall - for whatever it's worth (not much).

teehee.... yep Caly tiz I!!! ;) i'm glad u like my Simds skins & meshes. I should have new stuff soon.. OH MY!! i still use BodyWarp now... I only recently got back into sims creating.. after about an 8 month break.. same here, Spanki... i found Poser.. LOL I would LURRRRRRRRVE to have that new version of Bodywarp... its looks like exatley what i need!!! hehe wow isn't it a small small world.... lol hugs -SimderZ- xXx

My God! Add the sketch lines and this rendering is just what I want. I want to do renderings that look like cartoons, but most renders either look too realistic or too plastic or just have something not quite right with them. I think that if I could learn to do your style of rendering and texturing, and combine it with sketch rendering to get the ink lines, I would have just the effect I want. Could you maybe refine your technique by getting the lines in and do a tutorial on toon rendering? Dale LaRoy Splitstone

its not a poser figure, its a figure for a game called the Sims, thats why it looks like that... sorry :)

Hi Spanki!- I sure would like to get a copy of Bodywarp from you, I did see lots of mentions about it but all I found were dead links. My email is jimburton@comcast.net. Anyway, I've been thinking about it, I think I'm probably going to go with non-Sims-compatable UV mapping, more Poser-like in fact. For one thing I need space on th emap for special effects, the shoes above, for example, are not part of th efeet mesh, they need their own spot on the map. For another the resolution is so low (the maps are 256 x 256 BTW, plus 128 x 128 for the head, Poser fans!) I also think I'm going to allow my maps to be freely distributable (as a base, anyway, nobody has ever raved about my textures!), but not the mesh. However, if the Objaction-like (I forget what it is called) program at PoserPros will work on SKN files, distributing encoded files would be fine, of course. Anyway, I think the inital set is going to be a nude/swimsuit version with and without heels, a French Maid and girl with a long fishtail gown, plus a couple heads.

If I wasn't so busy doing so much stuff at once with Poser I'd love to try and convert some of the cars I have to be used with the Sims. After getting permission from the authors of course :D I've been a long time Sims player & fan, don't have the latest expansion yet, but I was pleased to see this thread here :) Nothing important to say... just saying Soom soom! Cheers, Axe.

I can't wait for Sims 2. I can imagine that we'll be able to have much more detailed meshes and objects since the computer version will FINALLY be all 3D. :) I hope you'll all come along to it...? ;) Here's SimPose- http://www.pygott.demon.co.uk/simpose/ You can get SimShow directly from Maxis, the official Sims site. SimShow is really handy, it lets you pick a mesh then try different textures out on it, and if you find a combo you like, you can export it back to the game. The Sims Creator comes with the Sims Deluxe version of the game, and is worth buying it again. :D

Jim, i don't know if resizing the body textures will work in the sims, It might make the game crash.. although Fionn and myself have used double sized head textures, so who knows, it will be interesting to find out... I can't wait to see more -SimderZ-

I also heard that double sized body textures crash the game, so I'm not going to be trying that for awhile, at least. ;-) I UV Mapped the mesh to more-or-less match Vickie II, here is it with Supermodel Vickie's texture applied in Poser, I'll have to see how it looks in the game, of course. Her back isn't too bad, either, I thought, I did give her shoulder blades.

Looks great Jim, That texture really translates well to the figure, and looks great in Poser (Maybe because of polygon smoothing). But at the size of the figures in The Sims, it should look fantastic even without smoothing.

Oooooooooo lovely lovely.. getting a big case of the skinner/simmer wants and neeeeeds.. lol ;) Great job!

Hi there, seammer here. I have been skinning and meshing for the Sims game for a couple of years now. I have all of my most current work available at http://www.8thdeadlysim.com . I do use spanki's bodywarp as well as milkshape3d. I do not use any poser meshes for my sims. Mine are all based on Maxis defaults and all changes are made by me. I also create attachments for them and have made some anatomically correct males and females as well as heels for the ladies. I am very interested in working with the low poly count head meshes. I have been doing many custom sims including custom faces which often require specialized head meshes. This is extremely difficult to do with the Maxis default heads as they are so angular. If you would, I would much enjoy working with you on this project combining poser with sims. I am having much success with using the double size bmp for more detail in these custom body meshes. I include an image of my female anatomically correct with thigh high boots which uses the double size bmp. I would so much like to get the unreleased bodywarp. I can be reached at seammerzz@yahoo.com

My anatomically correct female with thigh high boots.

Those boots are sweet! But I would give her a slight breast reduction. ;) I was just looking at the 8th deadly Sin the other day... :D I tend to spend time scouring over the 7 Deadly Sims site.

Here is a work-in-progress of the female figure. Actually, the mesh is about done, I need to work on the textures and the joint bending a bit, but I don't think she look sall that bad, does she? Some of the details: The mesh -body, head, shoes and hair shown is about 4000 faces, which I think is do-able, as people have been using converted Poser hair that runs about 10,000 for the head/hair alone. I'm especially happy with the hair, as I like this style, and it came out about 1700 faces. I like it so much I think I'm going to do a Poser version, in fact! Anyway, the shoes are actual shoes, not just lines painted on and some faces pushed out. I had to move the ankle joint up to get them to work properly, but that part seems to work fine, what still needs work are her knees and shoulders. You guys think adjusting Poser joint parameters is tough, you aught to try working with these! Plus there seems to be absolutely no information out there, either. Oh, this pic is from Sim Pose, thanks Simderella!

She looks great! :)

Here is the mesh in Poser, where you can sorta see it better. This is the French Maid version, note the pumps. The head has ears in mesh, lips too, BTW. As you can see, no relation to the Sim's mesh, or Poser's either, for that matter.

She looks so nifty in Poser! A 3D doll... She's going to look great. :) Now I'm thinking of all the SIM people/hairstyles/outfits I wish existed... Will you make a little duster for her? She could actually replace the in-game maid if you wanted. :)

Ha! I never thought of that! I did hire the maid in one of my games but I haven't actually seen her yet, I thought she might be virtual or something. I figured out how to attach props by looking how Maxis attached the pipe and whatnot to the detective, so I think I'll be able to add accessories like a duster and the little headpiece and whatnot. I'm also going to try to get the hair in as a skin called by the head skin, which should let me use two maps. Poser people have no idea what it is like working with a 128 x 128 map that has to do both the hair and the head!

Yes, the Sim texturing makes it hard to get in a lot of detail. Some sites actually offer 2 textures- one lo-res for 'in-game' and a hi-res version for those that like to play with SimPose. I've seen all sorts of props, from wings to swords, to shields and tails... people have fun. :) Oh yes, you can replace all of the NPCs in the game, like the gardener, the female cop, the mail lady, the handyman, the butler... the guys/gals that jump out of the cakes... As for the maid, you have to hire her via your phone, under services. If your house is too clean and she has nothing to do she'll eventually stop coming. She usually arrives around 9am.

Here is the 3rd figure that will be in the initial set, with a nice fitted suit. The textures are throw-aways, I just needed something so I could see it in the program. The hair seems to work fine as a prop, it and the head both have 128 x 128 texture maps. I gotta add some earrings, though! I haven't seen any of the NPCs except for the paperboy and the fireman yet, but I did learn not to try and have the character put out a kitchen fire!

Hey Jim. Just stopped by to check out the progress...Man, this stuff looks great. I've e-mailed you a copy of BodyWarp, in case you didn't get it. I'm excited to see what happens next. And, I love the hairstyle you got going. Heh. I'm still selling pyrotechnics, but will be back in pocket after the 4th of July. Nice to see you again, Spanki. I still use Bodywarp because it rights dang quick .cmx's. My only problem exists when I use it to write a .cmx for a hair for which I've either adjusted the Blend data, or I've reassigned some vertices to another bone. But, that's a small problem that I mostly create for myself. And, I want to say thanks to all of the artists who have been in support of my "conversion" process. I've sent something to everyone that I used, and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. I told Jim that I only wished that we could have turned some of you guys onto the Sims much earlier, and I think that the quality of things that we have available now would be much improved. Oh well, I'm excited to see what Jim comes up with next. Fionn www.simfreaks.com

I love the turn this is taking. I always thought Poser & The SIMs seemed so ideal for each other. Hello Fionn! Your hair meshes are almost legendary. ;) I just wonder how all of this will change when The SIMs 2 comes out. Wish we had more info... It looks like we'll be able to use higher desnsity meshes. I wonder if it'll be possible to use any of the original Sims stuff in it. Doesn't seem likely...

Caly, My understanding of Sims 2.0 is that the skins will be transferable in some form after some initial changes, only moreso (with expressions implemented,layers of clothing, etc.) Lots of limitations that we are stuck with in the Sims will be dealt with in version 2.0. So, I think the future for customization is really bright in that area. Of course, all the "objects" that exist now only as sprites will not be transferable, so we will be limited in that area; that is, until we create new things. A much greater obsticle will be dealing with new licensing requirements for using Poser meshes in the Sims 2.0. As it stands right now, it will be more difficult to secure licensing for using and distributing Poser files if the 3D format used by the Sims 2.0 becomes more closely related to the polished form of a Poser model (transmapping included, higher-poly models). But, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. And, I think, it will open the door for more Poser artists to join in the creation of content for the Sims, which would be a win-win situation for everyone involved. Coolness. Fionn

Thanks Fionn! After looking around at all the Sims sites I could find, I've come to the conclusion nobody else has ever made any original figures, they have only done modifications to the Maxis versions (which is apparently allowed by Maxis). And after doing all the work, I can now see why! ;-) However, I did make the first set, and they are just about finished, other than the work by my texture-maker. I think (I'm a little biased, of course!) they look much better than the original figures, enough to justify the small price I'm going to ask for them (and selling them like Poser stuff is also going to be something new in Sim land, I gather). I also really want to ask people to treat the set like a Poser product, that is no redistribution of original or modified versions of my mesh, or derived figures either. I will incourage people to make and distribute other textures for them, however, and I'm going to allow all the textures I supply to be used as required for a base, in other words they (not the mesh) will be public domain. The mapping is different from the Maxis figures, BTW, I optimized the mapping to best use the limited space available. I hope this can be respected, at least by all the Sims sites. What I really want to do is produce all the mesh modifications myself, and sell them in future low-cost packages, which I don't think is too much to ask. If the stuff get pirated it will more-or-less steal the future income I intended to make to justify all the work, and it would probably mean neither I or any other Poser content creator will be encouraged to make items for the Sims 2. Anyway, here are some of the details: The figures came in about 1100-1300 faces. The heads are about 1100 faces, and they do have ears and lips! The hair (which I like very much) came in about 1700 faces, with included earrings. These numbers are about double what the Maxis figures use, but you can't make an omlet without breaking eggs. They also come to a total of under 4000 for the figure/head/hair, and evidently the game will run with 10,000 face heads (using my San-Fran hair optimised by others!), so while it pushes it, it should be workable.