Hi everyone It seems the characters I develop are getting progressivly more complex, so I may have to expand into done some basic modeling to incorporate new elements into them. I have tried working with a number of the free 3d modeling programs, to no avail, as I cannot wrap my head around alot of the technical aspects (Dumb artist syndrom LOL)...but I now have my eye on purchasing z-brush...and was wondering if anyone has any opinions on it that they could share with me. To me it looks like it works in a way more akin to graphics/painting programs rather than traditional modeling programs...so I am assuming that the learning curve may be somewhat easier to this old graphics dog. What do you think?

It is a little weird but I do like it for doing morphs etc ... For the modeling I equate it with playing with clay. There is a really good tutorial at Daz Arcana. It is a little dated on the version and placement but the information is still good and you can sort of see how it works.

Try the demo that's the best way to determine if you can grasp it. I just could not get my head around ZBrush, it's 2.5D concept and it's workflow left me cold. It's not really a modeler per say, yet it is, and it's painting is not as robust as say Painter or definately Photoshop. I've read a lot of articles and seen a bunch of people useing it with wonderful results so again I recommend checking out the demo to see if you like it. It is rather pricey and you may do better with another 3d application. I know that you work in photoshop so you might think about getting just a 3d program that you can grasp. All the major 3d applications have light versions that you can work with and see if you like. 3dstudiomax, lightwave, maya, softimage all have 'lite' crippled versions that let you really test the workflows and functionality without having to shell out the initial money. my 2 cents

Definitely check out the demo. I've found the free graphics programs all much easier to use than Zbrush. The interface is strange and frustrating. It can do some neat stuff, but learning curve, for me anyway, is very, very steep.

My 2 cents I like z brush but it is a strange creature. It does get better with each release. It is easy to use once you get in to it. If you want to morph it is great. If you want to create clothes and props you may want to look in to something else. A lot of work you see in z brush may look 3d but it may not be. An example would be if you painted a ball on a texture in zbrush lets say in the middle of a cube. It will look like there is now a 3d sphere intersected in a 3d cube But when you turn the cube it will still be a cube. The ball cube thing can be done in zbrush but the poly count would be high. Told you it was strange. If you want to do cloths or props or characters I am learning rhino. Cloths are easy props are not to bad ether but characters are tough. For me at least. I do use rhino a lot on my morphs also. I am starting to look in to Amapi Designer 7 it does splines like rhino and it also does box modeling along with the traditional line modeling. The free demo is great and no restrictions except you can not export. I dont think the demo will time out ether. I can morph better in amapi. I would show them but I can not export yet lol You should also check out Wings 3D it is free I have been working with it also. Its simpler than most. Check out the forum on here. Also read and try some of the tutorials. I have not tried to create cloths with it yet only props. Did I mention its free got to love that? Also easy to morph in.

Personally, I found Anim8or a lot more user-friendly than Wings. (It's free, too.) I couldn't wrap my brain around Wings, MilkShape, or Zbrush, but with Anim8or, I made a prop in an afternoon. A fairly simple one, but still. :-) However...if you want a really basic tutorial for Wings, there's one here: http://www.theattic.us/news.ez?viewStory=55 You have to register to access that part of the site, but it's free, and they won't spam you.

I agree with MachineClaw ... the only thing I use ZBrush for is morphing. The interface is far too complex to work with, IMO. The licensing/authorization process is a pain too.

Attached Link: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Your very right in your thinking that it's not a traditional modeling program. You can move, mold and shape with a paint brush,instead of pushing and pulling points. You can turn any image(like a face)into an alpha mask or stencil,and apply to the mesh...then model the shape. You can paint and texture right on the mesh useing any image you like. You can create orginal characters in a much more "free form" way,than you could with a traditional 3d modeling program. Check out this thread (link) at CG Talk. BTW...I like ZBrush SWAMP

I have ZBrush... it is good for morphs. For me it has a Steep learning curve. I can't quite grok it.

Thanx for all the advice, its great. I guess looking into the demo would be a wise idea...basicly i would plan to use it for morphs, and to see if any of the tools could add an added dimension (figurative, not literally) to my textures. I will leave serious modeling of clothes and such to the professionals, my art is in the texturing, so I will keep it there where it belongs LOL :)

Z-Brush? I made the mistake of buying it after seeing the impressive tutorials on the Arcana site. I an INCREDIBLY disgusted with this mess. I managed to get the program working 4 times in the 2 years since I bought it. I've had the S/N validation hose me over 4 times. Every time I have to contact their tech support. Every-time I've had to endure cheery little "Thanks for buying, but who are you & PROVE when/where/from who/how you bought ZBrush"-type responses. Too much trouble to look me up in their database (or possibly their customer records software was written by the same cretin who slopped their S/N validation system together, so it never works either?) I had a little fun with the program a couple of the times it felt like working, but I always ended up ultimately floundering around uselessly with their cutesy ZScripts and obscurely arcane interface. The "Let the users teach each other, we can't be bothered" philosophy that's so obvious from their site is is a typical symptom of a company that's dominated by a marketing mentality. The "Keep the customers on a short leash - put out their little fires when they gripe, but don't waste unnecessary effort into preventing problems; If they don't keep coming back, new customers won't see what GREAT service we give and they won't buy any more" school of corporate planning. And I think we've all had some experience with endless "It'll be fixed in the next release - be sure to buy the upgrade!" as a substitute for tech support. My final opinion; I don't have enough hours in my life to waste on such time-wasting crap!

I find Z-Brush incredibly useful for morphing but a horror for modeling. Great program to buy for doing custom morph work but you definately need a serious app for it to compliment. It's jsut not enough of a modeler in it's own right.

LOL leatherguy, tell us how you really feel. 8-) But ... the sentiments you expressed are exactly those I feel as well but was trying to be more subtle about. My advice to anyone that is considering ZBrush is to try the demo first. What you see is basically what you get.

I am a very big fan of zbrush... There is nothing better out there for shaping imo.

Of course.. I'm also a large fan of wings, and modelled the Mil Cat in it. But I sue both with Lightwave as well.

Wings and the Editable poly tool in 3D Studio MAX are both very similar to the workflow that was once found in Mirai (the program Bay Raitt swears by to this day, I hear ;) Wings, however, is a hell of a lot less expensive than MAX :D. I haven't played with it's subdivision capabilities much, but I'm assuming that it can be used to yield amazing control meshes for use in other appliations, as Michael has proved with the MilCat. :)

Attached Link: http://www.izware.com/sitemap/

Mirai is actually a very excellent looking program :o) As far as being able to "Paint" a model, cinema 4d has a magnet tool that can also work the way zbrush's paint tool does. I never liked zbrush coz it was a B***H to learn. There are easier 3d apps out there. :o) DraX....I believe Mirai AND Nendo are still for sale:) See the link

I love and hate Z-Brush at the same time. I've found you have to think very differently to use it. Which is fine if that's all you use. But when I was deep into Z-Brush, I couldn't use Bryce or Painter 'cause my head had changed. But it's truly a great program and incredibly fun to use and play around with. However last October when daylight savings went off it hosed my registration for the last time for me. I haven't touched it since.

Ok, to give credit. The Creator of ZBrush is usually readily available in the official Zbrush forums. I did one post and was IM'd a response ASAP. They do take what people say into consideration. ALL of the upgrades have been FREE!!! so far. At one point it wouldn't work at all, I called their 800 number, and they had me going in 5 minutes. They now have a 'permanent' serial number!! :)