Another problem with !!! that I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet: PBoost. In each "bank", PBoost puts a folder named ##SwitchBanks as a sort of safe haven. When you switch banks, you select the ##SwitchBanks folder in Poser so that Poser will refresh the rest of the list without throwing a fit that the folder you're in has disappeared. When it's at the top, it works great. When it's buried under a mound of !!!! folders, it's a PITA. Merchants should be paying attention to their customer base. Far more people have stated hating the !!! practice than have found in helpful. Customers don't like to be ignored. Maybe it's not a deciding factor very often. But, a lot of marketplace items are pretty similar, and if all other things are equal, I'd chose the merchant who has distinctive file names and no !!! folders over their opposite.

Here's my folder structure for all products. Runtime/Geometries/productname (all obj files have same name as figure they're for) Runtime/Character/productname Runtime/Camera/productnameviews Runtime/Lights/productnamelights Runtime/Pose/productnameMATs Runtime/Props/productnameProps Runtime/Textures/productname Can it get any easier than that? Re merchants time and effort, yadda yadda - Retail selling has a few basic rules and one of those is "Keep the customer happy". Sure, you can say "It's my product. They can bite me!", but I wouldn't reccommend it for long-term goodwill. As you rightly say, it's YOUR money. mac

'Maybe it's not a deciding factor very often' fyrespyrit, It may not be a deciding factor the first time you buy a product (since you don't know what you're getting), but I'd like to think it would be a deciding factor the second time. There are certain merchants who have been around for a long time. They must be doing something right. And it sure ain't adding !!! to every folder! mac PS Sorry about the rants, but this subject irks me no end. It's been brought up 1000s of times and some merchants never seem to get it, do they?

It's such a waste of time for both the vendor and the buyer. I hate to disappoint the vendors who want to be on top, but it doesn't ensure that their item stays on top. I want to find things in alphabetical order, and with a name that I can remember. I have too many items that I have to go look at the readme every time I need them, in order to find out where they were stashed in Poser, just so I can find them. I change the names of most of them anyway to make them fall into alphabetical order, so why do the merchants bother? Melanie Oh, and just for the record, whoever it was who asked about desert vs. dessert, I always remember it this way: two S's have more calories than one S, so "dessert" is the sweet goodies we get fat on, and "desert" is the dry wasteland where we'll all starve to death because we can't get our dessert. :)

'Merchants should be paying attention to their customer base' That's another point. I'm not claiming to be a genius, but I'm not a dummy. With my last product, I was planning to put the MATs in the camera folder. But just to check, I posted in here asking people what they would prefer and got an overwhelming 'NO!!!' from everyone who replied. The result? I left them in the Pose folder. mac

it was me that's always confused about desert and dessert, I think it will always confuse me. Retail sales is always difficult. For the past 10 years I did airbrush work, and yes in the beginning I said, well, this is the way I want to do it, but after awhile you have to listen to the customers and do it their way. I did, it worked, and I never looked back. I wasn't as happy as I was in the beginning, but I made money.

joffry wrote: "I don't think we're intentionally humiliating anyone. No names are being named or even hinted at." That's not exactly correct, but no biggie. Sorry, but you misunderstood what I meant. Perhaps I should have quoted Phantast's musing in the first post in this thread. That's what I was responding to. "Oh, and I wouldn't discuss a disappointing product here, something like that belongs between me and the merchant." I agree that a dissatisfied customer should always try taking it up with the merchant first. However, there are some merchants who refuse to respond, even though that's violation of Renderosity's terms which require merchant support. Fortunately, such persons are extremely rare here, and most merchants I've ever dealt with were professional to a "t." However, I once purchased something here that was falsely advertised. I tried very hard to work with the product, but it didn't really work in Poser as advertised. I was very patient with the merchant, but he refused to respond to IMs and e-mails. After a few weeks of this, Renderosity staff gave me a refund. However, that product and others by that person are still in the MP. I see no point in naming names out of resentment, but if someone pops in here and asks about that product, I will certainly tell the truth to save them the same frustrations. Keeping every little thing swept under rugs is just as unhealthy as airing dirty laundry in public too much. A fair balance can be struck. And then there's the fact that, as a community, we get collectively excited about major releases from DAZ and other high-profile venues and merchants. Sometimes our expectations are too high, but sometimes our complaints are very valid. The bitching and moaning can go a bit overboard, but it's healthy to vent, and almost invariably, people who've come up with solutions or work-arounds help out as a result of the complaining. All too frequently, if someone tells the unpleasant truth about something here, fifteen other people will jump all over them, or pop in with useless posts like "I like them. They've always been nice to me." That's why I think we should be able to speak freely, ideally with cool heads and thoughtfulness when a complaint comes up.

Here is a suggested rating system for Product reviews by customers:

Use the "5 star" rating system. It works for Amazon, why not here.
( no, I don't know how you do a half a star unless it's "***+" )

***** (5 stars) ***** Excellent !!! ... Fantastic value ... YES !

**** (4 stars) **** Very Good ... works as advertised

*** (3 stars) *** Ok or Average ... could be made better

** (2 stars) ** Below average ... ok, but has some problems

• (1 star) * Not very good ... Save your money

This is only a suggestion but it could save time.

A customer would not have to use alot of words to convey their satisfaction (or dissatisfaction).

Potential customers could see very quickly what the overall customer satisfaction is (or is not).

Just a thought. ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

I like that thought, Doc. I do leave a lot of product reviews, but find myself using the same superlatives over and over, feeling sort of silly about it, even though I mean what I say 100%. A five-star system of averages would be an easy thing for the PTB to add. I'd use it.

:), would the names of the people who rated be posted? why I say this is, last year, before I was accustomed to buying and using and whatnot, I bought a textture set, had rave revues, I used it, let me tell you it sucked, came out all smeared, really not nice. I went back and looked at the revues again, not any name that was recognizable to me, even then I knew who was who. So, was it rated by friends? I know I used the set properly. And no, I never complained or said anything. Those days are over. @xonocostle you are 100% right. There are always extenuating circumstances. Merchant first and then if all else fails here. It's just that I've seen quite a few instances, where something comes out now, is bought, tried, and bashed here before a merchant even knows there was a problem. I really hate to see people trashed, words cannot be taken back.

Attached Link: http://www.leolaughlin.com/poser

I am a merchant and I must confess that I do use multiple !!!! HOWEVER, that is intended only in development of the product. Before I upload to the store I do remove them, or should I say I intend to remove them. IF you do purchase one of my products and it does have the !!!! please accept my apology, it was only intended for development purposes so that my working directory was at the top during development and testing. If they are still there, then you know I had a brain leak! I figure my customers are smart enough to add their own !! in order to sort their directory as they chose, and we should let them. To see I mean what I say, I worked with other to try to establish higher quality standard here, and if you want to see for yourself check out the link! Thank you!

Whenever I make products, I try to use 5 leading exclamation points, use my name as often as possible, and make the path (and file name) as long as possible. This way, I make sure that people always remember who I am. For example, all of my obj files go in: Runtime:Geometries:!!!!!JohnRender:!!!!!JohnRendersCharacters:!!!!!JohnRendersStuff My poses go into: Runtime:Libraries:Poses:!!!!!!JohnRenders MAT Poses for JohnRenders Characters And my textures are named: Runtime:Textures:!!!!!JohnRenders Textures:!!!!JohnRenders Characters:!!!!!JohnRenders_texture1.jpg, !!!!!JohnRenders_texture2.jpg

You must be kidding. ???Right???

I don't like this new sistem for give comment about Product Reviews, please come back on old sistem ... :-(