Jim .... very nice :) Sean, we all know how you feel about Daz and anything other than P4 or Littlefox characters ;) And btw, some of us actually like things like impractical armour and fairy ear morphs (not that I've made either for Girl). Just because you don't, doesn't mean the market isn't there for these things. For example .... I was begged via email and forum posts to make a M2 version of a piece of my clothing. Got no less than 30 emails. So I did it. Know how many sales I've gotten so far? 2. Yeap, just 2. And at $2.49 a pop, minus the store take, how much do you think I make from that! So from now on you know what I'm gonna do? Go with the bloody market. No more M2 or V2 stuff. If it is impractical armour, so be it. I'm not in this modelling business to make friends, nor waste time on items that people 'say' they want but never buy. I'm in this business to make money and put food on the table for my children. As a sole parent this is my one and only concern. So the next time you want to whine about your issues with anything not related to P4 figures or Koshini and Ichiro, or how V3 stuff is the bane of all existance, why not think twice before you do and remember that some of us actually need to make our living from this industry. And no I will not lighten up :P

Xena, if I used M2 I'd buy it. Fact is I don't LOL. I think everyone is doing great work with her and yep I'm buying her the moment she hits the store. What's impractical to some isn't to others. Bring on the fantasy stuff, since that's what I use. Hand painted textures, unconventional clothing, that's what interests me. You have to go with what the market calls for. Right now she is the next big thing waiting to happen.

as someone who is in the exact same boat Xena is in, I'll agree with her assessment -- but I'm a touch lighter (well, ok, it's not light, it's crazy, but light sounds nicer, so get over it, ok?) but, in any case, I'm very interesting in seeing more images with the limbs bent -- that, all by itself, could make me buy this figure -- and I very much want to see what she's capable of.

we all know how you feel about Daz and anything other than P4 or Littlefox characters ... the latter of which are sold at DAZ. Hmm, funny, eh? Lady, I spend plenty there; dont worry. Sorry it's not been any of your stuff, but that's how it goes, ma'am.

"You have to keep in mind that the original version renders were in MAX and that it was subdivied twice at render time, giving the illusion of greater mesh density. "

I understand how that works, it's a popular technique (hell, we use it all the time). The concept of apparent mesh density was the thing I was commenting on.

More and more of us are rendering in other programs, so we simply slap another subdivide on the mesh there (after we pose it) but it would still be nice if the figures looked a little better in poser. Maybe a hi and low rez version?

"It makes it sound as though these figures have been ran through some conversion utility."

Not at all. When I use the term (which isn't often) I use it to refer to a process... and there is such a process. Mesh optimization, material zones, joint parameters and so on - that is all specific to Poser.

"I would have to say that it gets very tiresome in "high end" circles having to fend off the "low end Poser" attacks, and some of what I see in this thread borders on that...and in a Poser forum no less! "

It's not an attack, it's simply a statement of opinion. If the figures look as good as they did in their initial form then GIRL is worth the money to me. If it is not going to look as good then it's value is much, much less... whatever the reason. The same is true with HER. Obviously that isn't a price issue, but it does determine how much time I will put into working with the figure.

The Poser world is shaking some of the stigma. A growing number of professional artists are using it int heir pipeline and that brings with it a different sensibility - one that means it has to look good >period< to be useful - not just look going considering poser's limitations.

Honestly? The GIRL/Daz thing is just a way to get a hold of her mesh. I might never really use her in Poser and drag her straight into Max to build a rig. If GIRLS was available on TurboSquid for 149$ rigged in max I would pull out my card in a heartbeat and never look back. Getting her via poser is a secondary concern bit the only one available right now. Similarly I don't have a problem paying for the Max version of HER if I need a figure of that type.

"Maybe it's a point of naivety on my part, but I actually have faith in the customers, that they will accept that such figures are not going to be identicle to thier source versions, but will be as close as they can be while taking as many advantages as they can from the positive aspects of what Poser has to offer."

And that is true for the hobbyist market. But as I said the Poser community is getting what it wanted - more and more high end people are looking at it. That tends to mean the bar is set a bit higher. I don't say the figures are bad - but I do reserve the right to decide if I think they are "good enough".

Things are changing out there. A good looking, fully rigged female for #ds can be found for $89. As more artists start following Posers ability to do good work until they run slap into its deep limitations (the joint system) and with Daz | Studio not a viable alternative any time soon some of them will jump up the the increasingly inexpensive "low end of the high end".

The more seriously poser is used, the more stratified the market will be. That's just capitalism at work.

~Sorry it's not been any of your stuff, but that's how it goes, ma'am.~ You seriously think I said what I said because you haven't bought my things (which I wouldn't know anyway as Daz doesn't give us a buyer list)? Whatever. As if I'd ever be that needy or shallow.

I'm a little confised by what your comment was supposed to mean Xena. It seemed to say that there was some emotional basis for the comments. It certainly >seemed< to imply that Sean wouldn't spend money at Daz, or on anythign other than LittleFox characters. A well, I don't mean to get in the middle of this personal stuff, it just seemed like a strangely personal comment and I was thinking I was missing some crucial context.

Who understands what she was trying to do, Soul? Xena is someone whom I seriously considered a friend, and I've been as supportive of her work as anyone because she is good. I guess that's no longer good enough. But I gather my feelings, which are fairly well known, for most of DAZ's stuff are fair game when someone wants to make a specious point or two. Whatever.

After seeing some pics, I must confess mixed feelings. In some pics this character looks like it renders really well, with properly toony proportions, other pics are quite a turn off, with a very odd body shape. It seems that the rigging is done cleverly since there are no joint creases, but the images don't specify wether postwork was used or not. To answer the question in the title of this thread, I think I'll hold back a few weeks to see what's coming next and at what price.

Ysaen, there are some rather interesting things about her rigging that aren't seen on other models. Quite inventive :) As with all new models she has solid JCMs, which if the truth be told I hate with a passion.

Message edited on: 07/26/2004 09:12

Attached Link: THE POST THAT STARTED IT ALL

Now that that I see her in poser with all of the usual poser market
looks and styles I Frankly cant see this figure as being signifigantly better
than Neftoon, Alexa, SARA-1, or H.E.R from the great Sixus1.
ALL of which i already own.

finally Good or bad I am the one who initially posted images
of the original Goosens girl here at renderosity one year ago next month. I hope she lives up to the hype for most of you
at this point im struggling to stifle a yawn ;-)

*(walks away wondering why commercial products
for an over hyped toon babe are given waivers to
post in the regular poser forum ;-) )

While the "usual poser stuff" does tend to tone down her unique look somewhat, that isn't really an issue. The underlying character design is simply awesome, a slam dunk home run. One of the things about her that is so nice is how she looks when she is rendered right with shaders, not textures. Between the advanced shaders available in P5 and a well rigged mesh she is going to show up in ways that none of the other toons could really handle. As with anything else she can look bland or amazing, but she can be >very< amazing.

The post was not initiated by someone working on her or affiliated with DAZ, AFAIK, but if it gets too much more commercial, it may be more appropriate in Product Showcase. Questions about rigging, joints, and textures all benefit the community because an improvement might carry over to other figures or a warning about problems save hardship for people. As long as this thread is useful, my inclination would be to let it stay (no matter my biases about the figure in question or toons in general), but if the forum starts getting spammed or this thread turn into an irritating sales pitch, it will get moved. The tenor of this thread is up to the contributers. Carolly Poser Coordinator

Yeah, .... but what about the soprano? ............. ;=]

" this thread turn into an irritating sales pitch" it did that around post 66... shrug maybe this time when I uncheck email me someone replies, I'll stop getting bloody posts from this thread...

Again I apologize for jumping the gun. The tone of messages and my (REALLY) misreading one in the DAZ forums lead to this message and thread getting started. I do appreciate the sneak peeks of GIRL. Thanks

Absolutely will begin looking more closely at this figure, then -- the jointing used by Kim in MAX was incredibly elaborate and complex -- something a a work of art unto itself. Xena, thanks bunches for the additional shots -- there was one I noted in the DAZ thread that had me slightly bothered (also by maus) becuase of the way area nder the knee looked. Jim, I'm one of them weirdos that doesn't worry too much about Vicki compatibility -- I use the daz folks only becuase I can get the stuff I need for them. If another figure had the same general support, I'd use it. And if this figure can bend better, then others can. Dang, I'm actually getting a little excited, lol

V3 high res maps, one of the starlet face maps that Anton did, and UpDo2. Rendered in Poser. Clothes are painted on, so uh, ignore how crappy they are. =p

why is the product showcase a "ghetto"??? just curious why a fellow merchant would use such a demeaning term to describe the forum where we promote our digital content.

I may be wrong but I think that Jim Burton may be referring to the fact that this thread no longer apparantly meets the high standards of the regular, high traffic Poser forum. Why stuff gets bounced around like this is a mystery to me, and without the ebot breadcrumbs it's impossible to track an interesting thread that's unfolding. I realize that in many ways this one did become a product development discussion, but one that is obviously is generating alot of interest. I'm sure that no slight on the forum was intended, just the zookeepers.

krimpr- Exactly right, thanks!