I just received a very disturbing PM from a friend who has helped me quite a lot with my images. It was to inform me that I would no longer see his masterful images in the Vue section of Renderosity, because of constant harrassment and insulting remarks. I may be selfish in thinking the way I do, but I feel CHEATED if that individual did stop posting. Not only would I miss thier fantastic art, and a standard to aspire to, but so would the entire Vue gallery at Renderosity.

That's pretty disturbing news, Joe. I could hazard a guess to which artist it is - I don't actually know - as I've noticed some pretty derogatory comments relating to a particular artist appearing on other people's work for some time now. You're right - it is cheating the community if a talented artist feels that they are being driven out because of a particular group or clique's asinine and anally-retentive attitude to what constitutes art. Nick

I'm so tired of this kind of whining. If someone can't stand to get stupid comments from mental retards then for gods sake don't post any images and allow people to comment on them. It's all about learning what critic that one can use for somthing constructive and then just ignore the rest. Also, remeber that English not is the native language for all people so sometimes critic my come out worse than intended.

HellBorn who is whining? I stated a fact! because that is how I feel. Everyone reacts differently. I am not speaking of comments made about images posted, I am speaking about PM's which I think is carrying it bit too far. As a retired Vet. I know of several ways to skin a cat and usuall come up with some inovative ways to do just that!To me constructive comments are in order, what I disagree with is a jealous streak that appears to be showing it's ugly head through PM's. usually by individuals who cannot do any better! That is what I am talking about,if you can understand my kind of English!

Hellborn. Whining has nothing to do with this. Like deevee says this has to do with personal messages, emails and IMs. Nobody should have to go through personal attacks and insults sent about subjects as stupid as 'alpha planes' , 'postwork' or 'collages' in the Vue Gallery. These discussions are as pointless as figuring out the gender of angels. What I am getting tired of is people who want the Vue gallery to remain 'pure'. This gallery is about showing work made using Vue. It does not matter if it was the only tool used in the process. And don't get me started on the different 'popularity' contests I have seen over the years. I want to keep this forum and gallery as welcoming and enjoyable as possible. If any of you receives insulting IMs, let me know immediately and I will take care of it.

Thanks, agiel; I'm hoping I can help talk this person into coming back. What a waste, that such a kind, helpful, talented person feels so persecuted by a bunch of jealous jerks that they want to leave. Makes me sick. And HellBorn, it was not constructive image criticism. It was a lot of very personal attacks, both direct and indirect. Totally and absolutely uncalled for. Joe, I, and a lot of other people have a great deal of respect for this person, and whining doesn't have a single thing to do with it. Trolling and attacks do. Thanks for your help, agiel, sometimes being moderator has to be a difficult and unpleasant chore.

I'm not native English speaking but that's not how I did understand your post. As I understood it YOU got a PM from your friend in witch he told you that 'because of constant harrassment and insulting remarks' he whould no longer post images. Nothing here says anything about anyone sending him PMs with personal attacks. If that's the case I would inform Renderosity to make them do what they can to get them trown out from here even if I know that they can get back under a different username. Also he should check what the laws say and if the attacks are illegal then he should make it a police case. Recently a couple of young people in Sweden where i live will have to face court after sending some treats by SMS. Did they wake up to face the real world the hard way or not.. I know it's harder to find such scumbags on the net and as I really don't know the nature of the harrasement I rest my case...

This just boggles the mind! I would absolutely hate to be persecuted like this in a place where I enjoy showing my images and discussing art with my friends. I'm so sorry anyone has to go through this sort of harassment. This is not the first time something like this has happened. I've seen several people get fed up with this place for this very reason and disappear. It's terribly unfortunate.

I think there is not much to say to that - only that the person Joe (and Christie) is talking about PLEASE should not give up because of some stupid idiots. A lot of us have experiences like that and it is a much better feeling to stand together and tell this idiots what they are - idiots. Whoever it is that has that problem, do what others did before. Pass it on to the moderators and admins and let them sort out the problems. They will - as a lot have learned already. And find out how solidly this community can be. So again, whoever you are, see it as an honor that your images makes other so jealous that they feel the need to play those dirty games. Thats what it is - jealousy, nothing else. I feel very sorry for these guys who need to do that. Nothing else. Poor souls. Walther

refer to my comment on the post after this. Idiots rule, (government - I detract). Face it, love it or hate it, DEAL with it. Those that are artistically inclined, have had to withstand scructiny from the world for generations. Ignore idiots, retart when you can, and let it run it's course. The mentally weak will fall from the herd eventually. These opinions mean nothing.

sounds judgemental. Why be extreme? Truth is probably somewhere in the middle, the compromise. Alpha planes are really lame in my opinion but thats only one point, there's an infinite more and all is one...HOLIDAY!

The point of this whole thing is mutual respect; if you don't like images with sky alpha planes, or faeries, or postwork, don't look at them. And don't make assumptions on how long it might take someone to put together an image, or use different programs.

Images and artwork mean different things to different people; but we're not going to put down someone else's work or vision because it isn't the type of thing we do.

Personal attacks are not even in the same ballpark as constructive criticism.

Message edited on: 09/06/2004 02:51

this is to the artist who wrapped it because of idiots i know you will probably read this..i agree with all comments above but if you do as i do and just delete there comments with a smile and a wink then come back with an even stronger image then its game set and match to you..if not then the idiots win..surely thats not right..when you are strong they are weak..but when you are weak they get stronger and start attacking others..so you can do the honourable thing here..keep posting your super images and keep the idiots at bay that way you help yourself and all those in the gallery that support your work in whatever format you choose..just my two penneth.plus if its who i think it is the work is top notch and i for one would like to see it continue..bravo to joe for starting this thread

Is it a full moon??? It seems as of late the idiots/scumbags are coming out of the woodwork :>O. I could give a flying toot what a person uses to create an image. If it please my eyes, then it pleases my eyes. I have to agree with Agiel..this whole thing of "purity" is so old, it's gotten to be quite sickening. There is a reason Vue/Bryce/Poser etc. and other were designed to use alpha planes. There is reason companies like Adobe/Jasc are flourishing. So....pfffffffffffffttttttttttttttt...to all the rude peeps out there.

Name calling like jealous jerk only drops you to the same level as the one you all now attack whom ever it is and I really don't care. Judging only really means you need to be in a position of judgment. I say grow up and realize this is what happens to many artists that are good. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. The fact this little group is keeping the person in question secret is funny to me. If the person is concerned then stand up and do your own judging IMO. Why let others do it for you as they may not have all the facts right. And last if you are good enough to invoke jealousy then feel honored. Judging a comment or an image based on opinions IS just that an opinion. And BTW if some thing is against the rules here then take action with the necessary people. Sure it is a shame but welcome to the real world. By voicing my opinion I run the risk of attack as well like being called a lurker because Im new. LOL

pfffffffffffffttttttttttttttt...to all the rude peeps out there.

I don't see anyone in particular being attacked, just a majority in agreement about it being wrong to attack images in the Vue gallery because of how they are created; you know, like a community ;0)

Message edited on: 09/06/2004 13:00

I hope whomever can talk this person out of leaving, not that I have a bloody clue who it is. The point is, I don't like coward or bullies and this strikes as both. How I create my images does not determine what I like in other's work. I'm not a huge Bryce fan, which is why I switched to Vue (and have been much happier since), but that doesn't mean I don't like some of the works created with Bryce. I'm envious of those who can get it to do what I never could. Hobbit comes to mind as one person. But I digress, I have not learned how to successfully work with an alpha plane, so at this time I don't use them. However, that doesn't mean I think others should not. Art is art and how you create it is up to you. There are times when I see an image in a gallery that looks heavily shoppped. I feel that maybe a better forum would be Mixed Media, but I would never say anything to anyone unlessed asked. It's not up to me where someone posts their work. But shopped or not, if I like it, I like it and that's all there is to it. I think the person being harassed should make the folks in charge aware of these PM's and let them deal with it.

All the name calling in this post makes it hard to know which group is unfairly judgemental. They both write the same. Bullies with words and bullies who delete posts and ban users makes it hard to know which one is right.

Pictures that are 100 percent alpha planes are not really 3d art even if the picture is generated in a 3d renderer. More like clip art. So there has to be some middle ground. The compromise. 50 percent 3d, 50 percent alpha, 1 percent unknown.

That is the point precisely. Are we talking about 3D art here ? or is it Vue art ? or just plainly Art in general ? An image is just an image, wether it was generated in 2d, 3d, with or without photographs. It is the manifestation of someone's imagination. No need for compromises. (Btw, I know deleting posts may make me look like a bully but that is a price I came to accept when I took this 'job'. Things look very different once you become a moderator).

This is beginning to sound sorta like the Poser forum......

Without a lot more detail, I have no way of knowing who is being a jerk, and who isn't.

This thread is like watching/listening to an argument between total strangers......an argument over matters about which one has little to no information.

However -- I will say this much: harsh IM's aren't kosher.

If one has something negative to say about an image, then post it in the comments -- where everyone can see the comment -- and can judge both the commentator and the art in question.

First God created the artist, then the critic soon followed!
If you put art out there, they will critique it folks.
I agree that constructive critisism is better, but that is only my own critisism isnt it?
In a free society if people see something they dont like they are going to let you know about it, and one persons madness is anothers common sence.
Live with em or dont do art, its that simple, because critics will not be silent!

because critics will not be silent!

True.

But it's also true that a critic can still be a jerk.

And others will be happy to point that fact out to the critic in question.