Not too sure about this SSS, whether I am going to have to explore deeper, find a tutorial or whether texture makers will have to think about this feature in future.

I'm not overly sure I like it, or am I missing something basic in seting up sss?

you might need to fuss with it. are you happy/unhappy with the change in color tone? what is that background? ::::: Opera :::::

To SSS or not to SSS? - well if you have a strong backlight behind the character, then it is probably worth it - but make sure you don't use infinite lights - and make sure depth mapped shadows are on. If you don't have a strong backlight for shadows on (doesn't look like there is one in this render), then you are pretty much just adding ambient red to the skin texture. Will Texture Makers include it in the future? I doubt it - since it's something that can be added after the texture is applied.

I assume the right hand image is SSS? To me it is richer and warmer in a very good way.

Yes the right is the SSS - I'm not happy about the tone with SSS seems to have given the skin a reddish tone although the skin looks more natural the tone just isn't "real".

I'm thinking one will have to play with the shaders used in the SSS nodes and have a "set" for different texture maps.

That background is one of the bedroom props with an image of a skyline placed behind it - I think it may be Chicago

"If you don't have a strong backlight for shadows on" - Think that is what I am missing...

Message edited on: 04/10/2005 18:08

I think you really need to think about what sort of effects you are going to get from FastScatter, and where it is appropriate to use it. Most (90%?) of the light on the figure in your scene is coming from the front, so there is no real need for back-lit sss (FasScatter) - it can only detract from the realism of your scene. Use FastScatter when there is a strong source of light at the back of your figure.

i was trying this out earlier today...I changed the colors..less reddish..it looked a lot better, but then I wondered if there was really much of a difference... i need to remove the SSS nodes and render straight..but am trying out the new fog and smoke lighting right now..and that is pretty cool.. forgot..I love your image up there...either way :)

Message edited on: 04/10/2005 18:27

Mmmmm, interesting.....I just did some more testing...Previously I'd found that FastScatter didn't work with infinte lights (they give a hard edge between light and dark). However, I just rendered this with FastScatter, and a Point Light at the back - only to discover that Point Lights cannot have Depth Mapped Shadows (which FastScatter requires). So either FastScatter only works with Spot Lights....or I'm missing something.

(note: Image rendered using the P6 Character Realism Kit, not the std James HiRes materials)

I can't tell if it is a placebo effect but I feel SSS has more depth as well as warmth in your renders... should you just use cooler lights then you have been in the habbit too? Add an infentismal bluish ambient color?

What is the p6 character realism kit? Thanks, Marque

Momodot - I agree that it adds more depth, it's just that red that it adds, I will experiment more with changing the colour of the node and see if one still gets that depth feel to the skin....

Momodot - just adding a little red ambient will give skin a bit more warmth and realism. If FastScatter is just adding ambient, then better to just use ambient and do away with the FastScatter node! Marque - http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2208277

Well, for what it's worth, I've got a side-by-side pic comparing SSS with a pink color to SSS with a more peachy color to just texture maps plugged in as normal. From left to right: SSS with fastscatter color set to rgb 26, 10, 8, edge blend outer color pure white and inner color set to rgb 223, 177, 165. SSS with fastscatter color set to rgb 20, 14, 11, edge blend outer color white and inner color set to 221, 179, 158. Pulled right in from the P5 setup, textures just plugged in to the diffuse entry.

There is justification behind the colors. For the leftmost, I sampled a highlight off the face texture, shifted that to red to get "blood flow" look, then plugged that in to the inner color and lightened it a great deal, and plugged it in to the fastscatter color and darkened it a lot. For the rightmost, I found a good midtone, lightened it a little for the inner color, and darkened it for the fastscatter.

I did a test just putting in a straight ambient, and there is a definite difference. The ambient glows all over, while the SSS has nice shadows where they should be.

Message edited on: 04/11/2005 19:06

FyreSpiryt - great comparison. What type of light did you use behind her? Also - did you have a map plugging into the FastScatter node? If so - did you plug that same map into the ambient node when testing the difference with ambient?

I knew I forgot something on that ambient test. As for the light, actually, I think it's an infinite. Lemme check. *checks* Yup, it was infinite. Here's some comparisons between infinite and spot lights, and between SSS, an ambient with the texture plugged into the ambient node, and an ambient with the same edge blend shader plugged into the ambient node. On the ambients, I didn't change the neck material because I was lazy, so you can see a bit of a seam there where the straight ambient material meets the SSS material. I took the hair off because it took a long time to render.

Very interesting. To my eye, Ambient Spot is very similar to SSS Spot. But Infinite is different. I found that you can't have depth mapped shadows with Infinite lights - so the SSS Infinite won't be shadowing correctly for the FastScatter node. So the question still remains, is the FastScatter node giving any results in these renders that wouldn't come from just using ambient.

Is there a difference? Yes. Is it enough difference to bother with? In this lighting, probably not. I suspect there would be a noticeable difference with a strong rimlight and/or little lighting from front, but Poser is munching on another render right now, so I can't check. I might try it in a bit when that finishes. I took the ambient spot image, layered it over the SSS spot image, set the layer style to "difference" to show where the pixels are different, and then a rather severe level adjustment layer over that. (It's multiplying the color difference by a factor of 16, to tell you how severe.) You can see there is a (technically) difference in shading between the two. However, without the level adjustment, this image might as well be all black. It's not significantly percievable. If there was a render time difference, I'd suggest just using an ambient in this lighting situation. I don't know if there is a time difference. Is there, like, a python script or something that can time a render? I'd like to give it a go. ^_~ BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just my engineering nature. In God we trust; all others bring data. ^_~

Excellent! So it looks like FastScatter with a spot light is the go. Need to play some more. Great work!

Render finished, so I did the "strong backlight" test. Backlit only, spotlight w/ depthmapped shadows. Here you can definitely see a difference, at least with my monitor's settings. (If both look black, try temporarily increasing your monitor's brightness to see what I'm talking about.) The SSS has the face in shadow properly, while the ambient makes in visible in an oddly alien sort of way. It's a shame there isn't more control over the Fastscatter effect, however. I wonder what happens if you throw in some tranlucence? Hmm...

Mmmmm, I suspect that by the time a diffuse layer has been added to this, the difference will be very small. There are some controls on the FastScatter node - I need to play with this some more. Great work!

AKmaterialroombookmark