I think I dream ! You propose to pay to submit pictures and to be published???? Usually, when someone wants to make money with an art book, HE pays to publish artists. The shame !

This practice is called vanity publishing. There are already several threads about this new Renderosity service in this forum.
I rather refrain from voicing my personal opinion on the subject...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Actually, not only do you pay to submit, there's no guarantee your work will even be included. bonni

No, I won't pay anything ! :-)

I won't pay anything Me, either. People who want to publish my work have to pay me. Funny how that works... ;-P bonni

I've met several "published" writers/photographers in my time -- many of them with boxes of cheaply-printed paperback books collecting dust in their attics.

But, hey......they can brag that they have been....uh......published. And they can afflict all of their family members and friends with unwanted copies of their book.

Actually, not only do you pay to submit, there's no guarantee your work will even be included.

bonni

Thats what gets me, its bad enough that they want you (the artist) to pay them to use your work, but thats not what you are really doing here, what is really being done here, is you (the artist) is paying them to even consider you in the first place, as well paying them to use your work.

Out here in the real world, consumer watchdog groups would warn that a deal like that is called a "scam" and probably warn you against getting involved in it.

Message edited on: 08/30/2005 14:31

I agree with Gloubi and Bonni. Spliting the production costs amongst all entrants, and all profits is fair. But anyone noticed at the top of this page and every one on this site is a little logo that says "art community" ? But charging for a chance your work "might" be selected, and not getting your money back if it's not? Thats not community. Thats an insult and smacks of greed. Renderosity, forget this idea and bring your printed magazine back.

Maybe if the entrants pay to get their art considered, and they get rejected, there's something else to the deal, like they get a copy of the book or whatever. Personally I would try to jam every paying customer in there, just to be fair. Full pages for the good art, thumbnail pages for the bad. But if they have to limit the art to what's saleable, they could charge an entry fee that would cover the cost of printing all the entrants' copies, as well as the cost of printing some further number to cover some fraction of the purchases they'd expect from non-entrants.

I think it's been said before...it's a juried competition with entry fees. That's standard practice in the graphics industry and has been for years.

I have no problem paying for an entry. If I make it, 50 bucks was cheap for such exposure. If not..I've got a $50 write off and some good practice under my belt. I charge $50 bucks an hour for my work...so I look at it as I took an hour's break. I entered 4 pieces. If they get in, then when someone asks me for "references" I will be able to say "I've been published here...here..here...", etc.

A few weeks back one of my pieces was chosen for inclusion into Aphrodesia's Art of the Female Form book as well. It cost me $80 to enter. One of my 4 entries was chosen and will be included. There was no guarantee I would get in, but I did. The judges were some major names and they thought that piece was good enough to be included. It's not vanity publishing...I had to compete to get in with 1000 other people.

Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. For a newer artist, it's a great chance to find some cheap exposure. If I were to purchase a space in one of the illustration annuals, it would cost me a hell of a lot more...from 100's to 1000's of dollars. A single page ad in a magazine these days can cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $12,000 and runs ONE time.

These books tend to hang around on people's desks. And even if you get no calls from them, when you have to sell YOURSELF to someone..a client or on your resume...you can say..."Here...see...I was good enough to get into this book...or this book...etc. etc." It's not THAT much money and its NOT vanity. You want to become well known..you put yourself out there and see if you cut it...or not. Here's an example of one of the best known comepetitions for books like this...Spectrum: Q: Why do you charge entry fees? A: Unfortunately, nothing in life is free. The entry fee helps to off-set the escalating expense of doing Spectrum each year. Postage, printing the Call For Entries posters, advertising, costs associated with the judging event, etc. all adds up. Though our costs go up annually, the entry fees have remained virtually unchanged since the beginning. Spectrum is very much a co-operative effort, with the arts community joining together to make this high-profile showcase possible. And, unlike some other art annuals, there are no additional publication fees for works selected for inclusion in the book (others can charge up to $75 per accepted piece in addition to the entry fee). Artists accepted for Spectrum receive a copy of the book their work appears in without charge: contributors to many of the other art annuals have to purchase their copies. Rendo isn't unique in how they're doing this.

Message edited on: 09/01/2005 01:10

No, I know it's not unique. However, the value of having one's work published in what is essentially a vanity publication is dubious. What sort of "exposure" is it going to get? Who's going to care if your work is in there? I've been posting work at R'sity for years now and have never gotten ANY work this way. I've gotten work from my own website, from posts at Renderotica, from posts in a graphics group to which I belong, but never, ever from R'sity. Therefore, the value of me paying them a couple hundred bucks that may just go right out the window is... let's just say I've got better things to do with the money, things that will actually be of use to me as an artist (software, hardware upgrades, etc.). And yes, people DO pay to publish my work. ;-) bonni

Heya bonni... Nice to see ya.. Yanno..I don't really expect any paying work from Rendo gallery posts really..or any gallery posts. But since I'm making the effort to contact publishing houses and such directly, it will help me to be able to have somewhere that I HAVE been published. When someone sees your site for the first time, and you have a few things there such as "as seen in" such and such...it helps with credibility. When you're new..every little bit helps. Besides...it makes me work harder and spurs ideas for me. It helps me learn to work under pressure. I know that if one of my pieces is good enough to be judged acceptable by an independent jury...it can't be all bad. It inspires me to keep working. There was a max of 5 entries I think...so even if we entered as many times as we could, it couldn't cost us more than $60. I've got all the hardware and software I need..I just don't have a whole lot of exposure...so..it was perfect for me. Once I feel capable enough of entering for CGTalk books (Ballistic) or Spectrum, I'll certainly do that too. It's also a lot of fun during the competition to see what others are working on...getting feedback...getting to know other people, seeing how others interpret the same idea, etc. But I HAVE come to the conclusion that in most cases I will choose to enter things that are NOT voted on by the community. Too much chance for favoritism etc. If this had been a community based vote..I would have never entered....shades of Hot 20. I guess the upcoming Daz contest is one where I'll have to bend that rule though. It's not the exposure I'm after there...it's the BOXX...:)

Well, now that I think about it... It does hold a bit more weight that you could (theoretically) say that your work was published as a result of a juried contest. I still have to wonder the value of having one's work published in R'sity's book, though. Honestly, I don't know who's going to see it, or care what's in it. Maybe someone in some position of significance would, but I don't know that (and I do have better things to spend the money on ;-). I never enter DAZ contests, though. I won't go into why, but suffice it to say that some of their past contests have left a sour taste in my mouth for various reasons, and now I'd just as soon avoid them. ;-) bonni

Yep..I know exactly what you mean on that one...that gave me pause for thought too. But I came up with an idea for it so I may do it. I guess it's a level of validation as well...since I come from the commercial graphics production side of things (magazines...websites, etc), being able to place well in an artistic competition shows me that I've achieved at least a certain level of competency. I'm not really marketing myself as an "artist" YET..just prepping to, so entering widens my portfolio AND evaluates it at the same time. If I can't get at least "something" in or place within a certain range, I know I still have some work to do. I suppose it's personal satisfaction as well...although I wouldn't go so far as to call it vanity. My favorite books right now have to be the Ballistic ones though. They are gorgeous...let's hope this one comes out as well.

yes, and the ballistic publishing competitions DON'T charge you to enter as many times as you like! - and it's still a juried selection with big names in the business as judges. They get 1000's upons 1000's of entries and sell lots and lots of books anyway. I wonder why?...