Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=2139

Oliver Vinet- creator of the Art Materials, Vol.1 package for Poser 6 has expressed his interest in porting his current set of Cel Shaders over to Vue 5 Infinite. No time frame has been set as he needs to get V5I first! But for Anime and Cel Shader fans this could give Vue the kind of Cel Shader looks that would further boost its use among professional illustrators and animators. See the link to Art Materials Vol 1 to get an idea of what these Toon-Cel Shaders would look like in Vue 5 Infinite. (These might work in Vue 5 standard- but I can't say for sure as I stopped using it about a year ago...) Keep in mind- these effects could also be applied to Architectural Renders, Cars, etc. and combined in creative ways with IBL-HDR rendering effects for very "State of the Art" illustration looks. Other possible effects could be artistically rendered NPR (Non-Photo Real) trees and plants for architectural and landscaping projects. There are a lot of possibilities when further combined with mult-pass, multi-layer renders for illustrations and animations that could give Vue renders a real high-end "film animation" look...

Very cool idea! I hope he does it - I'll get it if so!

Here's a new Ray-Traced Cel-Shade look that he's planning to release as part of a free upgrade to current Art Materials users...

IBL-HDR and Ray-Traced Cel-Shade effects would really give Vue a powerful new EFX feature set- this would look really fantastic with scenes like Dystopia-Sci-Fi cityscapes! It would also give natural scenes an Anime-Disney type of look using a 50-50 blend of Cel-Shaders and Ray-Traced lighting...

Message edited on: 03/15/2006 22:50

Watching something like "Appleseed" made me wonder, between all the 3D apps I have (as well as friends' apps who would help), how difficult would something like that be? Yes, I know, motion capture sessions, TEAMS of people making the models, lighting, and animation look just right - but really? On a small scale, this cell shader would make it easier to possibly do with only a few people - or even one.

Ever checked into the Gypsy mocap system? They have two essential versions now; one is an articualtion frame, the other a skinsuit with digital gyros. And they have a 'for pay' system where you can hire time with their actor for custom mocap files (and with the Gypsy Gyro, you can get things like two actors in the same mocap scene doing things like hugging without running into the issue of marker occlusion). So there's one problem with a less than astronomical $$$ resolution.... :)

I saw his poser 6 pack and it is very cool looking. Unfortunately I don't have P6. Nor do I have V5I. Would it possibly work on V5E or would it be something only doable on V5I? I ask because if it could be done in V5E he has one guaranteed sale with me! Does V5I have a shader system that V5E does not? That is why it works in P6 and not earlier versions.

When I check out e-on's site and look at V5i I see this:
"Custom Materials and Functions - Non Photorealistic Rendering
Take control over the entire shader process! For instance, change the color or the opacity of a material according to the angle of incidence (for convincing velvet or X-Ray effects, or even cartoon-style rendering).

Use new input values (Position on screen, distance on ray, depth in object...) to rewrite the shader entirely using the SmartGraph function editor!"

So it sounds like it can only be done in V5I but does the light tune plug in cover this?

Message edited on: 03/16/2006 11:08

It probably can be done in the V5E version- I guess the main difference really is the Eco-Systems- which V5E doesn't have. So- it should work! I lobbied for a long time to get E-on to put a Cel Shader into the then "future" V5- they finally did- but it was never really IMPLIMENTED by an actual package like Oliver has done for Poser 6. E-on often (I think) has this attitude that "we can already do it ourselves- so WHY CAN'T YOU?"-- as if we all are programmers with extensive math skills, etc... So, YES, it could have been done probably back when E-on released V5- but NOT on a more user-friendly and comprehensive level the way Oliver has done it. He offers a PDF manual explaining the control points, examples of various types of toon renders and how they were made- plus most importantly- he's a Math Wizard as well as an Artist who actually provides real technical support! I think he will have a pretty large following in the Vue Community if he does this package for Vue 5- I just hope that E-ON doesn't just BLOW HIM OFF with their sometime Arrogant Attitudes...

Looks like a nice package. The one drawback I see that needs to be addressed is that the package contains 1400 materials which implies that the user needs to mix and match the materials by loading/unloading materials. A very unweildly approach which could be solved by using a python script to create/edit materials on the fly. Also, if the angle of incidence node is used to create the cel outlines, then the package could only be used on Vue5I.

Attached Link: http://poser.rois-sorciers.com/ShaderWorks/index.htm

...I know almost nothing about the math involved! You could always ask Oliver- he's over at the RDNA Poser 6 Forum as a Mod- The ONLY REASON I purchased Poser 6 was to use Oliver's Toon Shaders- they are extremely GREAT in my opinion! I also do a lot of post-processing in Photoshop and I have been getting EXACTLY the looks I want- and I've PREVIOUSLY spent lots of $$$ in the past for "Illustrate!" for 3DSMAX (around $495) and Piranesi ($695). But what may also be needed for Vue 5 is a Python Program like Basil Gass's FREE ShaderWorks. (see link) It popped up just as I was buying the Art Materials pack and Basil was just adding a specific Art Materials module- which makes applying the materials GLOBALLY a single-click option. It is extremely useful! I have heard that ShaderSpider does the same thing- but ShaderWorks is free. The only downside is that it is Windows XP only and requires Frameworks 1.1 installed (also free from Microsoft)... so MAC users can't use it... So- what someone needs to do is write a Python version of ShaderWorks that performs the same key functions with Art Materials. Of course you can apply the Shaders manually- but that is rather time consuming- Shaderworks is just CLICK and load! Maybe Basil Gass would do a Python version- but I have no idea what his programming background is re: Python...

You mean to do something like this ? :) These shaders are already included in Vue Infinite. You need Vue Infinite advanced customization of shaders to get that effect. It is not exactly a pure cel shading but you can get really close. If you don't know about it already, I made a tutorial about this effect. The link is in the Vue section of the Tutorials page. Talking about this made me want to do a serious scene with that effect.... I'll let you know when it is done :)

Nice work Agiel! But I still think Oliver will have a number of customers for his Toon Shader pack. He has over 1000 cel shader combo's broken into 5 (soon to be 6) different sets- all with lots of very cool and unique possible effects. And it's all well documented and, best of all, he is readily available to provide help and technical support! Plus, he is working on Art Materials II, which will have (apparently- as he is not releasing details right now) a number of very ARTISTIC brush stroke effects. I know he is very familiar with the effects of Piranesi (a $695 3D Paint software) so I am guessing (and hoping) that he has some things along those lines for Pack II. I've read your earlier tutorial and also played with what meager cel shader materials that are available (and created a few of my own) and Oliver's grasp on this goes WAY BEYOND anything I've seen done in Vue so far! I am also hoping that Vue's Advanced Materials Editor will be "MUSIC TO HIS EARS" (or something like that) and that he will be able to whip out a Vue 5 Version really quickly. I STILL HATE POSER 5 and 6 and the stupid and unnecessarily CLUTTERED "Material Room". Poser 5-6 has one of the WORST Material Editors ever made! Vue's Advanced Materials Editor has a number of features that are beyond me- but at least it has a logical and uncluttered flow chart system- I can do in Vue in a minute - what takes me 20 minutes in Poser 6 to figure out and wire up. Frankly- I still do most of my Poser work in Pro-Pack and just use P6 and Oliver's Toon Pack for its rendering effect- and even THERE I use the P4 Renderer as it is hugely faster than Firefly (and the toon effects look every bit as good!)

Shaderworks and ShaderSpider is like putting cool whip on top of mud and calling it food. Nothing wrong with Shaderworks or ShaderSpider but the idiots at E-frontier are abandoning their material injection system in favor of a Python driven widget system to inject materials and manipulate advanced shader nodes.

Haha...OT but dburdick...I like that phrase.."It is like putting cool whip on top of mud and calling it food"... I prefer "When you combine 5 gallons of ice cream and 5 gallons of manure, you get 10 gallons of manure." myself...

Interesting - there is a tutorial in issue 75 of 3D World magazine on making this kind of render. I was just looking at it. Good timing. If the price is right, I would buy.

Well I am hoping that E-on will provide whatever assistance they can to Olivier so that Vue users can have the option of some really well designed Toon, Anime and Manga-style effects. Think of how great these effects will work with those Mega Sci-Fi City scenes that people like to do with Eco-Systems! Plus additionally- the artistic effects that will become available in Pack II should be of interest to people doing Architectural and Landscape renders. It would be very exciting to see some of those 3DCornucopia Lighthouses, ships and French Chateaus rendered in a Painterly Style... Olivier is the right guy for this as he has a very big interest in this type of NPR (Non-Photo Real) rendering and knows the mathematics really well. Plus he is a native French speaker- so maybe E-on tech support people can give him extra attention if he needs to iron-out any technical issues. I bet Olivier will be able to put some very good questions to them!

well whatever system you all come up with for cell shading, remember it is not just people wanting to make one cool pic to put on a wall, it is people wanting to make hundreds of comic panels, repose the figure then reimport into the scene with all the nice cel shaded textues still in place. we're looking for a 1-5 button solution here. Love esther