At the risk of raising a heated debate...:unsure: The Penis:- aka A bone of contention Looking for a realistic morph package as I think it's time I ventured into a bit of male nudity. But I can't for the life of me seem to get either Mike or David's genitals looking like the real thing. It always seems to me as if they are in a state of partial arousal - they just don't hang right (to me anyway). I've looked at some of the morph packages but these look geared to transform poor old Mike into some sort of Porn Star, which isn't what I'm after. What would be great is something that looks natural, has a few wrinkles and such and is morphable for all the male figures. I know this will raise some ire - but there is the occassion when one needs to do a non pornographic image of either a male baby, child or teen and honestly resizing Mike's equipment just doesn't cut it in those circumstance. Any suggestions?

Sausages? (mwha) (sorry. I can't resist it)

Have you tried any of the 3rd party props? Some are a bit expensive I'll admit, but well worth it with regard to poses, fits & morphs. On the (sometimes!)lower end of the price scale, the Adrian for V3 male set over at RDNA has a penis prop that looks very natural and can be scaled to fit just about any figure.

It is good to see another Robert A. Heinlein fan. By the way I can't get any part of your site to work, only home page. Sorry I can't help with mikes genital problem, but I would like to see if you have done any illustrations of RAH's work. I have done a few. skee

The problem is not to create such morphs, or even better to create completely new hips for the PT/PS boys and Luke and Matt. The problem is where would one be able to sell them ? :b_confused:

If call them "primatives" you could probably sell them anywhere. And it would be truth in advertising. [grin]

Have you tried that other "Rendero...." site? Believe it or not, you can't mention it here. :huh: There be some proper male and female genitalia to be found. If these are to what you are referring, the M3 package (couldn't resist) can do more than turn him into Ron Jeremy.

Quote - "The problem is where would one be able to sell them ?"

stahlratte:- You raise a good point!:rolleyes: skee:- Thanks for the heads up - but I seem to be accessing the site OK without being logged in so you may have just hit it at a time when there was a server glitch. I haven't tackled any of Heinlein's stuff yet - my biggest problem is which of the many scenes would one portray - do you have a link to your images? I'd like to see how you have captured RAH's writings in image...:thumbupboth:

I had to use Mike's and scale & resize it to fit the Freak. It turned out pretty good. And Stahlratte, if anyone was serious & there was a demand for it - I'd create a market place on my site. (Which I will be doing soon anyways, when I get the server issues ironed out).

I have to go along with kathym - I already have my own personal store on my site and I'd be prepared to look at hosting a good useful set of morphs - I don't think the hosting is so much of an issue, or the demand, but the advertising is where the problems exist..... :b_rolleyes:

Friendly Reminder: Even at the other "R" site, do NOT mention you want to use them on any character that can be construed as a minor. TOS there does not permit it and you'd likely get your ass roasted over it. True, there are innocent reasons to render an anatomically correct Matt, Luke or even the MilBaby -- health/medical illustrations come to mind -- but because of current laws this is very unwise to say. And it's so touchy a subject it instantly draws flak, so be careful. You may know you're not that kind of pervert, but they have no way to be certain of that and don't want to take the risk.

Quote - "Friendly Reminder: (snip)- Even You may know you're not that kind of pervert, but they have no way to be certain of that and don't want to take the risk. "

There is 1/2 the problem - we can't even reasonably discuss the issue of realistic morphs without someone jumping up and down and questioning our motives. I know personally I don't want a set of morphs that make the "unmentionable parts" fully functioning - I just want something that looks as though it belongs on the body it's attached to. There really is a difference between a little boy or babies "unmentionables" and a full grown male. Gawd - even I'm pussy footing around the subject in case it offends one of the protectors of my morality.

Have you tried that other "Rendero...." site? Believe it or not, you can't mention it here. Yes you can. Renderotica, renderotica, renderotica. It's not the Bloody Mary myth you know :biggrin: Just don't link to it please.

Quote - "There really is a difference between a little boy or babies "unmentionables" and a full grown male."

Yep, and you'll get no argument from me. I know it sucks (no pun intended) but when it comes to talking about genitals and "minors" -- even 3d ones! -- pussyfoot we must, I'm afraid. At least until attitudes change or more sensible minds prevail.

Last time that I mentioned the "site-which-must-not-be-named", I think there was a warning volley across my portside. And I do think there was no link, but maybe a full URL (but no link).

the one at renderotica is very good, for porn star renders and I reckon there are plenty of guys there who will tell you how to set it for normal people, tazzy

I use the Real M3 Gens by Satanica_Inc, available at Renderotica. They're worth every penny.

Quote - "Have you tried that other "Rendero...." site?

No. He said 'there is the occassion when one needs to do a non pornographic image of either a male baby, child or teen and honestly resizing Mike's equipment just doesn't cut it in those circumstance'. Renderotica don't allows child nudity neither any kind of naked underage, so you never will found there a penis for Millenium Baby, Teens, Preteens...

But all of this precluded it, to which I was responding: At the risk of raising a heated debate... The Penis:- aka A bone of contention Looking for a realistic morph package as I think it's time I ventured into a bit of male nudity. But I can't for the life of me seem to get either Mike or David's genitals looking like the real thing. It always seems to me as if they are in a state of partial arousal - they just don't hang right (to me anyway). I've looked at some of the morph packages but these look geared to transform poor old Mike into some sort of Porn Star, which isn't what I'm after. What would be great is something that looks natural, has a few wrinkles and such and is morphable for all the male figures. :tongue1: Really, Real M3 Gens by Satanica_Inc, to which Neyjour referred direct, does have the versatility to be more than a Porn-Star prop. As for Prepubescent genitalia, I guess one will need to provide their own (?)

Attached Link: http://www.bbay.com/store/

Apollo can e morphed to almost any age with equipment in tow. The Male versions of the Mil Baby and Cubed Baby (Dylan) come equiped as well. So, the product is out there, just not for the DAZ figures mentioned. (I recall a product that also morphed and completed the Mil Girl into a Male figure.) For Poser, the bigger issue I guess would be Textures. For me when those rare occasions demand a nude younger male, I use the old artist trick of body postitioning so you can not tell if all the bits are there or not! Much easier and less controversial! I use this method with all figures, it makes it more interesting.

Well, this thread could - in theory open a can of worms. but, I have to agree 100% with the use of equipment + teens/babies for medical images etc. People have gone over the edge with trying to protect 3d figures from child preditors. I'll have to venture to renderotica's store to check out that pack by Satanica Inc.

I've commented before on the limits of available components. For instance, not all males are circumsized. I don't agree with the current age-18 legal limits, and the ways in which laws written a half-century ago get applied to computers. I don't think it's worth taking a chance. But... When I hit a similar technical problem, (A V2 Male morph) I took what I needed from Don (P5 male). Export the group as a .obj, import and save as Prop, and do some text editing to cut and paste the morphs from the .cr2 -- I also modified the materials grouping and UV mapping.

but because of current laws this is very unwise to say. And it's so touchy a subject it instantly draws flak, so be careful. You may know you're not that kind of pervert, but they have no way to be certain of that and don't want to take the risk. "

That's not a correct statement of current laws actually.

A correct statement is that it is perfectly legal to do artwork that uses no real people and is nude and even erotic, regardless of age of the characters.

It is only illegal when it uses real people

Look at:
http://practice.findlaw.com/archives/cyberlaw_0303.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-795.ZS.html
and to a lesser degree:
http://practice.findlaw.com/cyberlaw-0804.html

Key quote from first article: Child pornography, the Supreme Court recently ruled, must involve actual children. The Court's recent 6-3 decision in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition made clear that virtual child pornography, which involves images of children that are computer-created, does not count as child pornography. Rather, it is protected by the First Amendment.

Which is a summation of the case, which you can read as the second link.

Legally it is protected... but of course that doesn't solve the potential moral and social issues.

arcady, the problem isn't what is illegal, it is what is seen as "wrong". you see people get arrested for things that aren't illegal. Techinicaly there is nothing wrong with that. you go to court, you get it dismissed and move on. unfortunatly during that time the accused may loose their job, house, family etc. without compensation. When it involves something such as child sexual abuse then the person gets a reputation even if it is without merit. Child abusers are so demonized in the US (this is purely emotional and has nothing to do with facts) that no one wants to take the chance of being associated with child sexual abuse. Just because what your doing is leagal, doens't mean it won't get you banned from websites.

The general problems are the same in the UK, with the added twist that the law only requires the image to look as if the person depicted is underage. There's even provision for "pseudophotographs", which would catch any Poser image. And since, for the purposes of the investigation, they'll take away your computer and all your back-ups... It isn't worth the risk.

The law in Canada says otherwise, Arcady. As in, it makes no legal difference whether it's a photograph of real live people or a 3d render or even a bloody crayon sketch, if it's naked and someone thinks it's underage, I could still get arrested on charges of possessing/producing K-pRon.

Adding this since I couldn't edit my last post: In Australia, even mentioning it can probably get you in trouble. There's already been one man convicted ($3000 fine plus a 14-day jail sentence) for having text material that a judge called "legally and morally wrong and taboo" on his computer. These were fictional stories about fictional characters, I might add, but according to the magistrate: "the danger of the stories was they "create the perception that this might be acceptable" and ""There is also the potential that the written word may encourage someone to act out what they've read." Definitely pays to be careful. Maybe even paranoid these days.

Thank God I live in the USA then, where we still have freedom of speach, and this little tool called the Common Law torts of malicious prosecution, abuse of process, and false imprisonment. The reality is that as of that Supreme Court ruling, the paranoia you folks speak of is not coming to pass over here in the free world... :p This doesn't speak to the moral issue. Just because something -can- be done does not mean it -should- be done. Only the legal issue is spoken for here. It may very well, and probably is, morally wrong. But that is not in any way connected to legality. My comments were to a claim that something was questionably legal, not to a claim on its moral stance. As for you people that believe these little internet rumors of what is happening in the English speaking second and third world, do you have URLs to case law to prove what you claim is true. Not tabloid news articles, but actual judicial cases. You might be right, but until you show me a legal scholar and a case history, you lack credibility.

The Aussie case is no internet rumor. Actual news story, you can read it here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18748877-421,00.html

In the UK, the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 amended the Protection of Children Act 1978 to add the concept of pseudo-photographs to the statute books.- - - - - -

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 raised the age of a child to 18- - - - - -

There's some analysis at this page. I hope that everyone can see why Renderosity admin get a bit nervous about these things. Note, in particular, that the British laws use the word "indecent" to define the illegal child porn, rather than the stronger term "obscene". That means that the wrong combination of pose and props could catch you. It's not just about nudity. As for the sneers about countries not having the US Constitution, or other protections, don't bother wasting your time. We have our laws, you have yours, and nothing's going to change because one of us sees somebody else's system as ridiculous.

Thank God I live in the USA then, where we still have freedom of speach, and this little tool called the Common Law torts of malicious prosecution, abuse of process, and false imprisonment. uhm.. you WERE joking, right?

I guess I shouldn't mention the unmentionable bits that came with a few P4 Children back in the day.