cheers...

[nudity flag invoked due to low-cut dress, though no actual nudity here...]

....where's the pic?  ;)

Quote - ....where's the pic?  ;)

sorry... when I saved the message, it bounced the pic because it exceeded the file size limit... should be posted now that I cut it to half size

So you want v4 to look like v3 with big Boomers .. 
like we didnot see that a million times before :}

@Barcode--NO, man!  He wants V4 to look like V2 with big boomers!  I read the post closely. ^__^ :lol:

Quote - So you want v4 to look like v3 with big Boomers .. 
like we didnot see that a million times before :}

Actually, I could never get V3 to look like that.  This is V2.  And if we've seen it a million times, that means it's a popular look.  ;)

Quote - @Barcode--NO, man!  He wants V4 to look like V2 with big boomers!  I read the post closely. ^__^ :lol:

Well, as I said I want to be ABLE to make V4 look like that.  If she comes out of the box looking like my Aunt Esther, that's ok with me.  I said I hoped V4 could be made to look like anything anyone wanted; i.e., a "big tent" Vicky.

This is V2.  And if we've seen it a million times, that means it's a popular look.  ;)

OR most people have no imagination enough to think of something else to make ..

OR they found out that doing the same thing 1000 time over and over again is ok when you have a naked or half naked vicky in the image it give's you loads of views and comments 

......  :}

I'm hoping for something in the reverse being possible as well.

I've never liked the results I got when trying to decrease chest size - and few outfits made for vicky supported smaller bosoms.

Well i HAVE seen multiple V4 images now and she looks good for some and some will say Nah ...

Chris

I dunno......lol, all my figures would fall over before i could pose 'em lol

Quote - I dunno......lol, all my figures would fall over before i could pose 'em lol

[laughs]... That's why my figures all have clear plastic braces protruding from the fronts of their high heels.  Fortunately, they never have to walk anywhere because they're all locked in place by IK.

Quote - I'm hoping for something in the reverse being possible as well.

I've never liked the results I got when trying to decrease chest size - and few outfits made for vicky supported smaller bosoms.

Well, as you might imagine, there have been no off-the-shelf clothes which work for some of my characters like the one pictured above.  But I've been able to make many different clothing props fit using the "shrink-wrap" technique of cloth simulation over an expanding figure.  I bet you could make some great stuff for your smaller chested characters by taking some of the nice dynamic clothes out there (by folks like svdl), parenting them to a null figure, growing your character into them, and resaving then reimporting the obj file.  That's how I got the dress pictured above to fit.

Quote -
OR most people have no imagination enough to think of something else to make ..

OR they found out that doing the same thing 1000 time over and over again is ok when you have a naked or half naked vicky in the image it give's you loads of views and comments 

......  :}

Maybe it's just what they like , no point in chastising them for their likes if you don't agree.

This whole, realistic vs barbie doll debate gets old real fast. An "average" looking women is only what you are used to seeing in "your" environment, nothing more.

I have similar looking models which are normal to me. I used to work as a DJ in a mens club and know lots of real world women that have this build, not uncommon in my world.

I see and hear the buzz over V4, and it's got me really excited; although I'm completely against not renaming a Figure Line, when the Morphs from one version are not computable with Morphs of an other version! 

why do it, why start us all over again like that?  Knowing V3 will have no hope of advancement as rapid as at least my own work; that it won't just assume all of my labor and look like a V3, is a little nerve wracking! 

I'll not be expecting to put my work with V3 down very fast.  When V4 comes out I'll have at her for about 5 mins., if she doesn't totally impress me(Like remind me more of what a Human should look like...)  I could get back to my V3 Figure work for another 2-4 years(Or as long as it would take for the masses to make setting serious goals with V4 more and more easy!) 

What are we aiming for though?

Should V4 look like Barbie or Rosie?  Or, should V4 be flexible enough (in bed or not) to look like either?

Should V4 be going for a look that is better than V3 (so that even in recognizing V4 one is not too displeased) or should V4 be so well constructed as to morph into any of these ideals presented (and beyond, de nada)?

We're getting to the point in Poserdom where it seems to be that we are either going for individual figures to fill particular needs (pretty much what the 3D CG industry has been doing for some time) or more and more generalizable and configurable figures to meet as many needs as possible.

Which do you think is best?

Quote - Which do you think is best?

I think, the more meshes, the merrier. Particularly considering the limitations that Poser has in bending joints, limitations on memory, and the availability of cheap and free modelers, it's better to have a plethora of people rather than a few bloated memory hogs that try to be all things at once.

If I ever figure out how to A) make an organic model that doesn't look like it was created by the crazed, genetically engineered offspring of Andy Warhol and Pablo Picasso and B) I can rig a figure that doesn't fly apart every time I twist a dial, I plan to contribute a few o' them there people, myself.

Oh, and forgive me, Tguyus, but I personally hope Vicky doesn't look quite like that. The poor dear's back would give out from carrying around all that forward weight, and she'd be no good to anybody. If all the guys who like big 'uns had to actually wear a set for a day, I bet the "minimal" look would be fashionable in nothin' flat. :lol:

Quote -
If I ever figure out how to A) make an organic model that doesn't look like it was created by the crazed, genetically engineered offspring of Andy Warhol and Pablo Picasso[...]

Y'know there might be a market out there for that kind of characters. For surreal renders ;o)

On another level...

Although those overly inflated bazongas kinda leaves me "huh?!" I guess it's not really different from how I tend to ...er... emphasize a certain part of the male anatomy in some of my renders

To each their own :o)

Quote - Although those overly inflated bazongas kinda leaves me "huh?!" I guess it's not really different from how I tend to ...er... emphasize a certain part of the male anatomy in some of my renders

To each their own :o)

Well, yeah, but (speaking for my case cough) that's just being realistic... :woot:

Quote - Should V4 look like Barbie or Rosa?

Now you've got me thinking...

V4 definitely shouldn't look like this.

Quote - > Quote - Should V4 look like Barbie or Rosa?

Now you've got me thinking...

V4 definitely shouldn't look like this.

Dynamic hairy face? :lol:

LOL Casette, nice one.
I believe there is a beard set out there for V3 (a friend of a friend said so).
But Audrey, oh, Audrey  climbs into bed with his box of tissues

I agree with CaptainJack, I prefer a variety of characters to one that tries to be everything.  That is really a tough thing to do and in the end will always result in a mesh with problems.

I've been over to the Daz Forum on V4 and while they have some nice pics, there is nothing so far that really strikes me as something wholey different than V3 (appearance wise, there is a lot of tech under the hood, so to speak).

Still, facially and body wise you are going to be a bit disappointed, I think.

They also admit that while trying to make an all-around figure that certain poses are always going to be a problem.  While a mesh might look good in one pose, it will break up in another.  In other words, if they made V4 so that her arms looked great straight up in the air, well, then they would be all screwed up down behind her back (my interpretation, not their words).

I'll get V4, because I'm all about having a variety of characters in my library, but I really don't know how much I'm going to love the character.  The deciding factor for me will be if she can do decent facial expressions.  V3 is really weak when compared to A3, who is still too toony for my usual style.  (V3 Next Generation had some really nice expressions, much closer to what I hope for from V4).

Oh, it would be nice if you could bend her legs without a big old triangle appearing on the thigh too, but P7's mesh translation thingy should help get around that.  All things are possible witha  bit of work.

Quote - What are we aiming for though?

Should V4 look like Barbie or Rosie?  Or, should V4 be flexible enough (in bed or not) to look like either?

Should V4 be going for a look that is better than V3 (so that even in recognizing V4 one is not too displeased) or should V4 be so well constructed as to morph into any of these ideals presented (and beyond, de nada)?

We're getting to the point in Poserdom where it seems to be that we are either going for individual figures to fill particular needs (pretty much what the 3D CG industry has been doing for some time) or more and more generalizable and configurable figures to meet as many needs as possible.

Which do you think is best?

Excellent points and intriguing questions from Kuroyume and others.  As Poser and its associated mesh markets continue to mature, I think we would tend to see more figure market segmentation; and there certainly seem to be many more figures around now than when I started in this hobby (i.e., back in the pre-Vicky 1 days).

I guess the challenge for figure designers is exactly the one you identify: i.e., to meet the demands of the increasingly segmented market (with segmentation driven by alternative aesthetic sensibilities among users), how much do we move toward multiple alternative meshes optimized for particular niches (i.e., "realistic" vs cartoon vs fantasy figures) and how much do we stay with a "universal" mesh which can be more or less well adapted to meet the demands from the segmented market?

Maybe this is the root of some of the tension (even hostility) surrounding the design of figures like V4.  Some users may just fear that a "one size (hopefully) fits all" mesh will not be adequate to meet their interests, especially if they perceive the new design as oriented more toward a different aesthetic.  Under such circumstances, the potentially disenfranchised segment of the user market might see figure design choices as a matter of aesthetic competition, triggering the hostility toward figures, artists, and/or artwork which they see as manifestations of the competing aesthetic.

So maybe the answer is ultimately even greater market segmentation: alternative meshes optimized for toon figures, or realistic figures, or fantasy figures.  Maybe the Vicky series will then peter out, or move to satisfy the needs of one market segment without pretending it can be all things to all users.

Having said all that, what I want for an out-of-the-box V4 (or some other future figure) is:

1.  plenty of polygons in the upper torso (code for, well, you know...) to facilitate certain exaggerations (more code...hehe)

2.  a higher head:body ratio than V2 or V3 (when I scale V2's head up to 105 percent, the mesh looks funny at the head-upper neck joint)

3.  a higher shin:thigh ratio than V2 or V3 (when I scale up V3's shins, her leg distorts when she bends her knee... and hours of experimentation with the joint editor failed to solve it for me)

4.  a thigh which doesn't flatten out as much as V3's does when the thigh is bent

5.  a face which can be made to look as fetching as V2 but with more polygons and a better mesh so she can be at least as expressive as V3 (i.e., I never could morph or magnetize V3's face so it looked as attractive as V2)

6.  above all, a V4 which makes EVERYONE happy, if that's possible... but if that's not possible, then I will answer Kuroyume's initial question by saying: "Please... more Barbie and less Rosie..."  (grin)

Cheers...

Quote - Oh, and forgive me, Tguyus, but I personally hope Vicky doesn't look quite like that. The poor dear's back would give out from carrying around all that forward weight, and she'd be no good to anybody. If all the guys who like big 'uns had to actually wear a set for a day, I bet the "minimal" look would be fashionable in nothin' flat. :lol:

hehe... certainly no offense taken here.  I would NEVER wish such proportions on my SO.  She's tall and willowy and an avid runner, and such proportions would wreck her life, both now in our (few remaining) active years and in the not so distant dotage years when I will want her to still be able to go on long walks with me. 

But... in the 3D graphic fantasy world, ANYTHING is possible and can often be kinda fun.

As a final thought, if someone made me wear a rack like this for a day at the office, the fashion implications would be the LEAST of my worries.  lol

Quote - Maybe it's just what they like , no point in chastising them for their likes if you don't agree.

This whole, realistic vs barbie doll debate gets old real fast. An "average" looking women is only what you are used to seeing in "your" environment, nothing more.

I have similar looking models which are normal to me. I used to work as a DJ in a mens club and know lots of real world women that have this build, not uncommon in my world.

I too have worked in the adult-industry of sorts as well...

So yes,  of course there's women Off-line with the same proportions as the 3D models that we use! {Which in turn are based off of Off-line women with fake boobs!} ;)

That's only the mainstream ideal what women SHOULD look like in order to be desirable...The only problem I see with that, is women{And/Or the 3D representation of women}who are already in possession of natural beauty believe that they have to change themselves to FIT that ideal!
{Yes, an image of a realistic 3D model DOES have bearing on a woman's self-image to a lesser degree!}

The Off-line concerns can also translate into the virtual world in that future 3D models will overlook true advancement in the technology in favour of bigger boobs, instead of improving better joint-parameters, and more accurate  physical features! A great example would be GND2{But with smaller cup-sizes}and Richardson's brilliant body-morphs!<--Though regrettably not the "Norm"}

I'd like to see V4 with better implementations of the ERC with realistic poses concerning the buttocks accurately used in relation with the -20 bend, and the hip-knee bends that doesn't corrupt the polygons when used!

Yeah, when I was in California far too many women i knew were getting their boobs done.  Really heartbreaking and never made any sense to me.

On the other hand, they aren't looking at 3D pics, they are looking at each other, so now this blaming guys expectations for the whole fake breat thingy has become moot, because in California it is now self-propogating.  We have to start a movement where it is so uncool to have big breasts, but then the opposite would happen with women who were naturally endowed.

I have no answers to the big questions, I jsut make my head hurt thinking about them.

Yeah, bending is more inportant to me than big breasts, but a model that doesn't seem to scream for big 'uns would be nice too.  But, that's what Stephanie, is for, so we are back to the different meshes for different purposes., which only makes sense.

Quote -
Yeah, bending is more inportant to me than big breasts, but a model that doesn't seem to scream for big 'uns would be nice too.  But, that's what Stephanie, is for, so we are back to the different meshes for different purposes., which only makes sense.

The oddest thing though, despite liking Stephanie, I find her default breast shape the least appealing thing about her.

IMO It was a missed opportunity for having nicely shaped moderately (realistically) proportioned breasts.
Whilst some merchants have managed to give her a half decent breast shape they are the minority rather than the rule. Shame 'cos other than that, I really do like her.

Klutz :0/

Quote - Yeah, when I was in California far too many women i knew were getting their boobs done.  Really heartbreaking and never made any sense to me.

On the other hand, they aren't looking at 3D pics, they are looking at each other, so now this blaming guys expectations for the whole fake breat thingy has become moot, because in California it is now self-propogating.  We have to start a movement where it is so uncool to have big breasts, but then the opposite would happen with women who were naturally endowed.

I have no answers to the big questions, I jsut make my head hurt thinking about them.

Yeah, bending is more inportant to me than big breasts, but a model that doesn't seem to scream for big 'uns would be nice too.  But, that's what Stephanie, is for, so we are back to the different meshes for different purposes., which only makes sense.

I have a saying..."If you are a woman I'm gonna give ya a big hug, and kiss<--On the cheek of course!}

 But if you're a guy, Then a manly cuff on the shoulder, and a free pint 'O Guinness for Ya!"

I think I'm the only man on planet earth that feels Irritation while viewing another image with a female breast due to the corruption of that bit of anatomical ideals, and the artificial solutions that the masses has imposed on women, that it translates to ALL media (3D art-Games-TV-Fashion mags etc...} is no surprise since MAN is a highly visual animal, <--No problem with that in,and of itself!}and that YES it's mostly men who pushes these standards in this industry!

Ironic still, is the fact that the only field of this industry {Visual media}that is NOT exclusively fueled by men is the fashion industry, which would be more in tune with Poser's 3D models than anything else<--Just look at all the clothing lines for this product, and you'll agree!}...Yet the 30 LB boobs are STILL the standard even in this medium....

{BTW: I'm NOT one of those "Stereoypical Male feminists" out for brownie points, I just don't like it when ya mess with perfection!}