If I decided lets say to render a poster with a picture of a well known car like the Dodge Viper or some other well known car.  I couldnt sell that poster right? Because the Image of that car is copyrighted??

Pretty much...yeah!  But if you altered the car in someway......................Called it a 'Bodge Sniper'

Thats good info.... thank you.

Nope, sorry, the car image would have to be unrecognizable as a Dodge Viper if you do alter it. A few minor changes wouldn't do. And because the car images are copyrighted you would be infringing by using the photo/sketch even if you alter it....and  lets not get into the whole trademark can of beans.......so be careful of what you include in your rendered poster.

mmmm..:unsure:

It just makes you wonder if all posters of known cars out there were cleared properly for use.

I know historically in the past FORD got upset with some early Japanese car makers for cloning the Model-T. They got away with it because FORD's T's were black, but the Japanese versions were in colors.

I know there is some flexibility when it comes to an artistic interpretation of something. I've also heard arguments like "I'm not selling the car For $300, but the paper that it's printed on." Not sure how that'll pass. 

It's a simple thing to call the car manufacturers to get the photographer's photos if they were done 'in-house", but you have to remember the copyright remains with the photographer, they had to get permission to take the picture from the car guys, so you have to get permission from the car manufacturer AND the photographer to use the image...=)

BTW, they have whole departments that deal with nothing but requests.....

How exactly do you want to use the car? As a background.. like a poster on some wall? Do you mean an actual photo, or a render of a car model?  This is interesting because I have always wonder about this if one day I do something using some model like a car.

If you model a car (your design) do the textures and render it, you have the copyright, on the car image, textures, and the model. You can do with it as you see fit.

Quote - How exactly do you want to use the car? As a background.. like a poster on some wall? Do you mean an actual photo, or a render of a car model?  This is interesting because I have always wonder about this if one day I do something using some model like a car.

Sometimes when I'm in a shop that has Posters, I find posters of popular Cars and it got me thinking. 

What if I were to render lets a picture of a beach with a well known car in it and decided to sell that picture online.  Would I get in trouble? And from what everyone has said here sounds like I would.  But I also wonder how many of those poster pictures were actually cleared with the manufacturer.

And come to think of it, I guess it applies to everything.... What if I did a scene of  restaurant and had  a can of Coke or Pepsi on the table.  Would I get in trouble selling the image?

I think there might be something in terms of art that might give an artist the advantage to sell the work. However, it's probably a tricky thing. Those posters you saw, maybe they were cleared with the car company, maybe some where not and the artist is taking a gamble.

I like anime, big time anime fan. Sometimes I'll see a soda can design that looks like coke but spelled different.. "Cola" or "Koke". Same thing with McDonalds.. the M logo is sometimes a W. Same colors and the impression is to pass that it's McDonalds, but it's not. Here I guess the anime people want to avoid any legal issue. It probably could be argued that the animators are infringing upon the look/feel of a particular brand, but that would have to be proved if it came down to it. And unless someone wants to use the courts as a weapon (as some companies I know do to intimidate smaller companies) it probably won't get to court.

This is really interesting stuff. I am reminded of the many court cases like Apple vs Microsoft for the "look and feel" of Windows 3.0 GUI to the Mac's back in the early 90's. Same with Lotus vs IBM (I think) over the look and feel of a spreadsheet. The ruling for the Apple/Microsoft case was the judge saying "no one can copyright an idea" (something to do about icons in a GUI being representations of an idea.)

There's probably some leeway for an artist because it's not the car you are selling, certainly not an exact duplicate, but there is the look and feel. But how far can one take the "look and feel" concept? If you use a color called "Corvette Red" and use it in a scene... see where I'm going? How far is too far?

If you were to sketch a Viper on a napkin and sold the napkin, can you be sued for drawing the likeness of something?

This is a very interesting topic. Photographers with background objects.. cars on a highway... etc.. businesses in a street (store signs)... and they sell the photo.. not of any specific subject, but in general because it happens to have some brand or trademarked name in view that the camera just happened to pick up.

It's easy to say "don't make it exact" and "make it your own design" yet how not-exact or how much of your own design can you make it before it becomes too close to that car?

I would love to find out. Great topic!

Look at it this way, if 'you' didn't create it, don't use it without permission. As a professional photographer, I also know to take a picture in or of, any establishment, or popular area and be able to sell it, incorporate it into something else, you need to have a general model release, that is, written permission to take photos of the building, what's in the building, what's on the building etc. from the owner of that establishment or building. If it's an historial landmark ,more so, although you can take the chance that the local or federal govn't won't come after you. If you take a picture of someone on the street, that is, so that someone can distingish their features as so and so. You also need a model release or they can sue your a$$ off for using a likeness of them without permission.

As for the napkin thing, that's iffy, unless it's super detailed......

Anything trademarked, i.e. CokeCola, Pepsi, McDonalds, etc is also a no no, they take their trademarks and copyrights VERY seriously, with fines up to $5,000 per infringement or 5 years in jail....

As an aside, most car posters, calenders and postcards, are put out by the car manufacturers, so they don't need permission...=)

*If it's an historial landmark ,more so, although you can take the chance that the local or federal govn't won't come after you. 

*We have problems with that over here. At Landsend for example, you aren't supposed to take your own pictures. Instead you have to pay a local photographer to do it for you.....Talk about a rip-off!

That's some good information. Thanks Zhann!

It'll take some time to mull this over some. Right now I'm mulling over a program and don't want to shift brain power to something else. The general release info is interesting. Makes me wonder how far it extends. For instance, I have many very high quality photos of New Orleans (before 2005) (collect old cameras and often take testing shots). They are nice ones, semi-panorama, taking across the Mississippi River towards the city. Can make out details like office curtains in the buildings across the river. Including store signs, river boats, cargo ships, river walk, and a heap of other things. Do I need a general release thing for the entire city?

But this is all good info. But right now my brain is too focused on code so i'll have to think about this more tonight. It's things like this that make me wish I took more law classes.

What if you tried to render a similar scene like this one or photographed one and want to sell.

I would say if you did that in Bryce, that's pretty good! ;-)

I wish I could do that in Bryce :) but you see what I mean. 

What if I took a photograph off of a bridge over a Highway and called the composition "Rush Hour" and sold it....what is the implications.  There would be hundreds of cars in the photo and including probably buildings in there.

I know! That's my question as well. In a certain sense, a business with a sign displaying in a street is relying on some publicity for their business. A private business but doing things in a public way. So to me it seems it's okay to do taking a passing photo like that. Like with my example of the New Orleans skyline.. I think it would be unreasonable and unrealistic to go to every business who themselves are displaying their advertisements over public spaces to get their permission.

Of course, like Zhann already mentioned, if you are specifically targetting a specific business you may want to clear things with them. To me that seems especially advisible to do if it's within the grounds of their business. But out on the street, especially a public street, might be a different issue. There might also be some local laws too that might dictate where and how a photo is to be taken/used, etc.

There's other questions I have too. Like.. let's say someone doesn't like the sale of fur coats and wants to protest and thus takes a few photos of a fur coat outlet. Certainly the business place would not want to give the photographer permission.

But funny thought... "I am protesting Dodge cars, thus here's an awesome photo of a Viper. Buy this poster and support my protest." ;-)  hehehe.

Yeah a Picture of a Dodge Viper parked infront of a Fur Coat Factory, with a Poser Vicky wearing a fur on fire or something. ;)

Here are some Pictures that make me wonder... about legality.

Would this have to be cleared by the Bike Manufacturer??

What about this one? NASA??

What about this one? White house? U.S. Army?

I'm sure I can find 3D Models of the Shuttle and render something
looking similar to this.... Still would have to clear with NASA?

See where I'm getting at? I find this topic interesting, because I see
a lot of these kind of images everywhere... and it just makes me wonder.

Hey thanks. This answers some of my questions that I posted in the copyright forum and the comics forum. It seems that I will get a far quicker response here (gotta love the Bryce forum members) so I am wondering about the legality of using cities. I'm working on a graphic novel that is set in Norway and I want to use a specific town called Geiranger (a popular tourist attraction). I have never been to the town (and certainly can't afford to fly there, nor do i have time to learn Norwegian) but have been researching on the internet, for both information and pictures. If I portray the town the way I want could I get sued; eventhough it is not so much the town but the events that happen there and on the fjords. What about using trains? If I model a train car from the 1970's to use in my comic and create my own textures is that legal, or would I still have to get permission because I'm depicting a Norwegian passenger train that runs from a specific point A to point B. In this comic most of the plot takes place in the College Town of Skaldi (fictional), A farm near Trollheim (Real place but fictional farm), Geiranger (a very real village/town) and since the writing is not yet complete there may be a few more real places. Because the GN is set in Norway (during the winter), I do want it to feel realistic and plan for at least one character to wear traditional norwegian clothing , but the story itself is fictional and while some real world events will be referenced such as the train crash in Finland that killed 26 and injured 60(which in the story kills one of the characters parents). Thanks for all the help. Sincerely, David

Hrm, well, first of all maybe I should begin with a disclaimer ;-)   All this talk about copyright is just informal wonderings not to be taken as legal advice.

I think there's something about historical subjects that might be ok. Recreating the USS Constitution, CSS Merimac, USS Monitor, HMS Victory, etc. Have the merchants in Renderosity selling these models cleared away with these historical things? This might be something TheBryster might be interested in if he wants to sell his train model once it gets finished.

Not sure, but it would be odd to make a Bryce Canyon scene and have to ask permission with the US Park Service to sell the render.

I wonder if the case of a story is enough to put a foot note, like a disclaimer, like many documentaries or docu-dramas have stating the characters and events are purely fictional.

In New Orleans there's a bunch of artists that get to Jackson Square in the French Quarter and on Saturday/Sundays are doing paintings of scenes around the city and selling them. By the looks of them, I doubt they have any license. Looks are deceiving, but wow. Anyway, they just come and set up their painting boards and sell for like $30 to $250. Anything from local businesses, swamps, river boats, streetcars, and the city skyline. I'm sure now they are also painting Katrina events.

A bit off  topic, but years ago I heard from official sources that if you paint an original painting of something like the Star Trek Enterprise, you can freely and legally sell that painting for any amount you wish.  But selling a thousand copies of the Star Trek Enterprise image without permission may get you in trouble.

I have a question??
There are tutorials everywhere you look these days
I did one to learn how to make a coke can
the actually name was on the tuts (coke)
as I wanted to do a funny image for a friend who loves 
and lives on coke (the drink that is lol)
Questions:
Cannot post it use it;?
I wouldnt ever think of selling anything but I'm not that good lol
but someone else comes along and copies it?
there ya go  what to do ?
don't do the tuts at all don;t use it?
why have tuts??
Ps also  does  anyone know how to disable  right click:??

thanks :

Hrm, I don't know about that. It's questions like these where I wish I was a copyright lawyer. I think it's the same as above, though. First, that it depends what you're doing with the brand. Coka Cola probably wouldn't like it if you're defaming their product. Sure there's freedom of expression in the US, and there's also slander which I think a private company can go after someone. There probably other things too but I'm just guessing. I think also that with the tutorial, the person wasn't making a profit at all with it. It's probably the same situation for making a parody of something. Kinda like that New Voyages Star Trek thing that's getting popular. Fan based Star Trek episodes and stories, being legally distributed and those involved making no profit from it, artistically, so they are okay. Anyway, just wondering.

But about the right click? No, I don't know how to disable the right click (never did it before) (I assume you mean for a web site) but I do know how to enable it if it's been disabled ;-)

Thanks for your reply
I figured that was the answer as you said same as above:
RE: right click  a lot of photographers
will disable people from stealing thier photos/artwork
(and other artisit of course by not allowing someone to right click and take or copy it:
I thought of someone who knows after I posted this
my nephew  in Montreal as he has all of his work protected that way
as he made the national geographics and has sold a lot
so if I get a answer I willpost it here:
Thanks again: hugs from the ca desert (smile)

D@M: I think in my case I've got it sussed.
If I complete my loco I can sell it - no questions asked. BUT, if I use engineering drawings of the same loco, purchesed from the museum that owns the loco I have to come to an agreement with regards to copyright. Which in this case could be a flat fee or a percentage. I think they'll want a flat fee up front.
Similarly, I plan to do an american loco - but if I go to the USA museum and do a photo-shoot and then sell the resultant model created from pictures they'll want to discuss a copyright deal.
However, at present, I am making the loco using reference shots from the web - freely available to all. Should I call up all those photographers and offer them a cut? I don't think so.

But then, if a painter sits in the Louvre all day and paints a copy of the Mono Lisa, does he have to pay a copyright fee?

I think in terms of the loco. you're recreating it artistically, which probably (I'm assuming) gets you off the hook. Plus if it's a historical train, you probably are okay there too.

What I would like to see is one of them large WWII German type trains.. those with the extra armor on the sides. Those were always impressive to see in the old Black-n-White films. I've always been a fan of Roco Mini-Tank models... I think they are an Austrian company or so. Anyway, some years ago I discovered they have a web site where they have a whole line of European trains. Excellent and interesting stuff there.

Goes back to the begening.  If I stick a well know car in a fantasy setting, is it not recreating it artisitcally?