Sitting morph looks good but with the legs spread open like that I would think the apron would fold inwards and go down between his legs instead.  Maybe work on a morph that would do that.  God only knows what you would name it though!! :lol:

Well a blacksmith apron would be a pretty heavy material, probably leather (at least a 10 oz weight), and heavy leather is relatively stiff, so it wouldn't necessarily bend and flex like linen or even heavy fabric.
Of course if it's for a modern day blacksmith, it could just as easily be of some modern synthetic, and there's no way of knowing how it would drape.

btw - looking good, Conniekat8!

Thanks Guys :)
To elaborate, yes, it is meant to be old-time heavy rawhide apron.
I'm actually worried that I'm bending and draping it too much right now.... But, if it's been worn for a while, it tends to have more 'give'

Inspired by Clawshrimp's character The Real Mother:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1445194&member

I'll eventually detail out the apron to fit the character.
I suppose in addition to sitting and standing, I should have walking and wind morphs...  bending down
Any others?

Ah, silly me.  OK you guys are right on the money then!  Stiff and certainly not linen!! LOL 

That looks nice. Should there be reinforcement where the neck strp meets the apron in the end maybe.

This looks wonderful!

My nic here is leather-guy, because I actually make my living making leather articles.
I've actually made some hide aprons, long ago, in the real world - except those I made were for the firepit attendants of the roasting pits for the great feast at some of the Renaissance Faires here (southern California).  They were of a similar style, except that due to the weight of the leather, tying them around the neck was too much weight for comfort, so I used straps from the top corners straight back over each shoulder, then across the back to the opposite hip.  Plus a loose tie straight across the small of the back.  It was important to keep the front loose, so when the fires heated the hide at the hip or legs, the guy wearing it had only to lean forward a bit so it would hang forward and keep the heat away from his legs.  Also I put a ring or loop of braided leather on each hip, so they could tuck a cloth, glove, or piece of leather there to keep it handy to use as an kind of an oven mitt when they needed to grasp something hot, or to thrust a tool thru to keep it handy.

Poses?  I just looked for some photos I took of those aprons in use, but it appears they were in a box ruined by a leaky water heater a couple of years ago.  I do remember that the guys wearing them tended to stand with one leg up on a low stool (or pumping a foot-bellows), or sitting slouched on a bench with one knee drawn up so the foot could rest on the bench to the side, so sitting, kneeling, standing "one-leg-up" poses would seem natural.  Also squatting poses, and striding poses, as they carried the spits into the feast.

Oh you flatter me so :).

This is looking really great Connie. It's exactly as I imagined it!

I know most people will really appreciate the poses and morphs, but I'll probably just convert back to OBJ and run the simulations myself. That way I'm not limited by what pose I can use. And the great thing about that is if I need to scale it to fit over my muscular characters, my scaling hack job will all smooth out during simulation :).

Can't wait to get my hands on this!

Hey clawshrimp :)
Well, if you want this simple OBJ, I'll give you a DL link (um, tomorrow, I left the model on my office computer)
I want to refine it too, add some seams, details thickness, but once I do that, it will be no good for clothing sim... I suppose I can make both versions a freebie...

Maybe Bagginsbill can write a matmatic script (if he hasn't already) that will render leather, and simulate material thickness. I know he already did leather matmatic script....

That'd be great Connie!

I doubt I'll get a final render out of it, but it'll be fun to play with while you finish up with the detailing. Some thick baseball stitching would look great on this.

Were you going to include some fitting morphs? I ask because most of my characters (Mother included) aren't exactly proportioned like default Apollo. The neck whole is nice and big so that won't be a problem for dynamics, but the waist size could be an issue.

There are some pretty decent leather texture freebies over at RuntimeDNA. I believe they're all node based, but I could be wrong. I think it would also look good in a heavy suede. Probably not wholly appropriate, but sure would be pretty :).

Another feature of is would be to have it foldable at the waist like he had removed it from aroound the neck and just let that part from the waist up hang.

@leatherguy - gosh, I hit send on my last post before thanking you for the info about the aprons!  I think it only maks sense to djust the strapping the way you suggested, or at least make option for it. If you think of anything else, keep it coming!

@ClawShrimp... if you give me the cr2, or morphs, or dial settings or an OBJ or something for you character so I know what it looks like, I'll include a morph for it in the detailed version...  Thanks for the tip on leather :)   I also have some leather remnants here that I scanned in. Finally finding use for my pile of craft supplies LOL

I think the apron needs an undershirt and workman pants (I think Apollo's jeans will work as pants) but a collared shirt with rolled up sleeves for under the apron would be cool... and some gloves, and of course, steampunk style welder goggles... I know, goggles aren't old time stuff, but maybe they'll do for fantasy renders.  And a boot texture to match.

Quote - Another feature of is would be to have it foldable at the waist like he had removed it from around the neck and just let that part from the waist up hang.

Oooh, that's a good Idea... I dunno if I'll be able to pull it off, all in one morphable piece, but... I'll get there... I think... :blink:  I'm pretty sure. :blink: :blink:

@leatherguy... I suppose you may know of some good sources for weathered beat up rawhide remnants? I'd like to get my hands on a few more pieces that I could scan and turn into texture bases. Something with tooling or branding on it would look really cool too.

Apollo's pants are really quite flexible. From skin tight to boot-leg jeans (as in the imbedded image). I don't think you'll have any problems there. Gloves are pretty much covered in the Clothing Volumes too. And while goggles might not be appropriate, they'd be undeniably cool.

A good collared shirt would be a God send! But again, being the sucker that I am for dynamics, it becomes a bit of a nightmare, what with constrained groups etc. I tried scaling Poser 7 Simon's business shirt to fit Apollo, converted it to OBJ, set up the respective groups, ran the simulation...and it turned out horribly! Not only that, but it took forever to simulate!!!

Carodan had some luck with a Poser 6 James shirt, but it was far too 'baggy' for this kind of thing.

Well, Clawshrimp, here's the method to my madness... I need the practice, and learning how to do it well... And making it for someone that actually has a desire to use it, and may give me detailed feedback is worth it... 
And any time I learn a new little trick, it's worth it! So, I'm doing this for me, not for you :tt2: ;)

Once I get the hang of it, adding other morphs, I hope will be easier.  Also, if you ever decide to release your character morph, it has extra pieces of clothes.

I was poking around Max forum, and may experiment with exporting the whole thing in Max, and testing the cloth sim there...
I'm thinking about the clothing sims as helpers to modelling rather then the end in itself... at the moment.

I'm also wondering if Phil C's Wardrobe Wizard may not be of help there... We'll see.

You're so selfish Connie! But if doing this for purley selfish reasons benefits me, how can I complain? :)

I hadn't intended to release Mother, given he is part of a larger project. However, I might release this version of Mother and create an all new one for said project...something I've thought about doing anyway.

I know this is probably a moot point by now (given the work you have done already) -

Could you not use the Apollo Seed CR2 to make clothing? You could then move ALL of Apollo's morphs to the clothing using Morph Manager (which is free). This would mean your clothing would be a Figure and not a Prop. Applying the same character pose to both Apollo and the clothing would yield essentially a 'perfect' fit, regardless of proportions. This is how Anton's Clothing packs work.

Everything I said here probably makes absolutely no sense...probably because I don't really know what I'm talking about - I'm a glorified dial spinner after all ;).

You're so selfish Connie! But if doing this for purley selfish reasons benefits me, how can I complain? :)
Well, just in case you were feeling too humble, I thought I'd let you know there's benefit there for me too :P.  Uh, oh, I think in thebusiness world they call that a win-win situation...

I hadn't intended to release Mother, given he is part of a larger project. However, I might release this version of Mother and create an all new one for said project...something I've thought about doing anyway.
Oh, I remember now, I think... book illustrations? They probably want an exclusive, so you can't release the character.... I'm guessing.
Could you not use the Apollo Seed CR2 to make clothing? You could then move ALL of Apollo's morphs to the clothing using Morph Manager (which is free). This would mean your clothing would be a Figure and not a Prop. Applying the same character pose to both Apollo and the clothing would yield essentially a 'perfect' fit, regardless of proportions. This is how Anton's Clothing packs work.
It's not too late, I haven't done any of the above yet. My draping test was done with, props, rigging, parenting or boning... Just a quickie!  (uh, oh, back on the subject)   Morph Manager you say.. I haven't used that one yet.  Thee are so many Poser tools out there, it's mind boggling, well, at least at first it is. But, I always say, they didn't send me to ennnheneering school for nuttin'
*Everything I said here probably makes absolutely no sense...probably because I don't really know what I'm talking about - I'm a glorified dial spinner after all ;).
*And one fine dial spinner you are!  (I'm having a visual of Apollo in a shower spinning a Dial soap-on-a-rope, ugh, that's just weired.... ) 
Somehow I think there's little something else hiding in there... like some major talent and knowledge that you're not letting out.

Why Connie? WHY!?! Now I have the image burned in my brain!

To clarify, Mother was part of a personal, non-profit graphic novel project (a collaboration with my brother). It's been on a very , very slow burner for years now and has gone through numerous iterations (including hand drawn illustrations). I've made my mind up though - This particular Mother shall be set free! I'll pack it up and ask Anton to put it alongside my others (there are two more that should be up very soon, and my Ogre of course).

If there's major talent or knowledge hidden in here somewhere, it must be hidden REALLY well. I just make what I'd like to see. If there's something I want to do but don't know how to, I ask the masters.

Morphs - Carodan
Textures - BagginsBill
Weblinks - Acadia

The big three!

Uh oh, I twisted your arm, didn't I?
I'll have to make sure I create a Mother of Blacksmiths package for your character :D
Now I better go and texture and rig my victorian stockings... LOL

Not twisted my arm...perhaps motivated or inspired :).

I'll have to tweak the body now that he's going to be 'released', but I should be able to do that tonight.

I might see if I can call in a favour and get a grubbier, weathered texture for him to complete the package.

ooh, a greasy sweaty texture would be so cool :)

Uh oh, I just noticed Anton posting... we better behave, he's about to read this, if he hasn't already...
[Kitty runs under the bed and hides... peeking at the mess in the room from behind the bedskirt... The master is home....]

You folks are so cool, so wonderful, and so generous.  I just love following these threads and seeing what the experts come up with.  Thanks, again and again, to all of you.

Experts?  
[Kitty looks over the shoulder to see if someone else is here]
No expert here!

I'm just a babbly wannabee!

OHHH....me want me want

I've been (between school, work and going crazy) working on a render for a friend with Apollo in a smithy. I got as far as getting a medieval-y-ish inspired anvil (no giant horns off either end) and a very very very crapy fire pit thing modeled up.....and then I haven't made it back to the project yet. 

If there's interest, I could probably get those props actually fixed up for something other than me futzing around to go with the apron. Just lemme know. ^_^

Realmling, if you feel like making a few scene props, go for it :)

Looking good Connie. No ugly kinks, which can only be a good thing.

Had a run at fixing up Mother last night. I'll have it up by on DivShare by tomorrow.

This apron thing would also work as a canvas-weight material in dark navy, for a guy who works in a grocer's or general store setting.  So, perhaps there would be some opportunity to play with materials and cloth settings too.  Personally, I'd love this to be a Dynamic Cloth item.  An optional front pocket would be nice to have too.

Very cool apron. Nice and long. Great for all sorts of things. That is looking awesome Connie.

I'll (hopefully) remember to do up a quick render of the smithy items I have going so far and get that posted over the weekend.

Thanks everyone for such nice comments :)
These are just bending tests as dynamic cloth and getting 'leathery settings'... 

Now I have to detail it out and see if it will still bend. I just don't like that it bombs out in the cloth room once the detail is there.  Not sure what to do about that.

I suppose I can make two versions, dynamic and conforming one with morphs.

A quick and dirty test render above!

Don't mind the collar not fitting for the moment, I tilted apollo's head but didn't rig the apron to conform yet. Just testing how the morphs fit.

Looking good! ^_^

Cool that is looking great.

Another way to smooth simulations is to do 2 or 3 for the same pose and then blend them together as morphs, at 50% or 33% each for the final morph effect. It will keep the look but soften distortions.

Keep us posted please.

Great Connie!

Glad to see you've managed to avoid the inherent 'thinness" of cloth similuations.

Looks like Apollo is happy about it too! :)

Yeah, Apollo was grinning and slapping his knees (in a very blacksmittish manly manner, of course!), I had a hard time getting him to stand still for a single frame ;)
I think I have the kinks worked out in the workflow, and can concentrate on creating stuff now.

Anton, thanks for looking and for that tip!  
I was writing a little export script today out of max, making it export every 2nd, third or fourth frame of the bends and twists, wondering whether it would make it too odd to include 1/4 sit, 1/2 sit 3/4 sit and full sit morph (and for other bigger bends, like kneel), to get a smooth look and avoid as much pokethroughs that are likely to happen in transitional frames.
Now that you mentioned it, I'm encouraged to include them.

I'm toying with another idea. This apron will have enough morphs that it may be able to be a smart prop, instread of a conforming piece. I haven't really thought through any advantages or disadvantages to it. They may come to me later... of course, if anyone else has an opinion or some experience with it, I'm all ears.

naked blacksmiths are fun  ; )

Is that the Ranger morph or the Blacksmith/Mother morph I sent you? I honestly can't tell! :)

I'll be the first to admit they're somewhat similar, although I think the Blacksmith/Mother morph is more reasilically proportioned body wise.

Looking great BTW!

Cool Connie. Very Cool

@jjroland  Yes, he is fun.... I mean, the apron is... LOL  I left as little space between him and the apron for some clothes.... unfortunately ;)

@clawshrimp That's your ranger morp, I didn't have the mother morph with me at the office today, and was itching to create a morph.

@anton  Thanks, I can't believe you're still keeping an eye on this.  I keep posting progress info, keeps me honest (makes me finish it)

I'm little puzzled about the best way to rig a conforming skirt. I see vendors have different solutions for this. I'm not sure which one I prefer personaly. More experimenting!

Really the best way is to do it like the Morphing Fantasy dress. Make the hip and below one part with perhaps a body handle at the bottom. That's how I did it. The leg effects will come from the thighs. The rest is morphs.

That is why I was saying go dynamic instead.

Thanks so much for your help :D
Body handles! I forgot about those. thanks for the reminder :)
I have a dynamic version too.
I suppose I should have made a hybrid! 
[contemplating another detour here]