I'm debating whether to get Bloodsong's Heavy Horse or invest in Lynne's huge add-on pack for the Charger. I'd like to hear opinions (preferably with visual evidence) regarding the best route to build a stable of good-looking draft horses.

The Heavy Horse looks awfully chesty in the promos. I want to make real horses, not equine superheros. The contempt of real horse experts eliminated the MilHorse (although I have it) from the running. The only negative I can come up with for the Charger is the lack of textures, which Lynne's package makes up for in spades, at least quanitatively.

Any other takes on the horse world?

Having looked at bloodsong's Heavy Horse, and having been a horse owner most of my life, I'd go with the Charger and the add-on pack.  

Nothing against the Heavy Horse but it is a bit chesty and not as muscular in the hindquarters as most draft horses are.  The draft horses I've known and loved have been proportionate along the body from the chest to the haunch.  They're not slim, they're work animals and have the musculature to show it.

Can you post a link to the add-on?  I couldn't find it in her store here.  I'd love to see it.

The add-on: I'm referring to the huge goodie bag at VistaInternetProducts. It's 120 skins, 46 manes, MAT files, and 29 poses, all for $18. If the site did download sales, I'd have bought it a long time ago.

My concern about the Heavy Horse is similar to yours. I've been a horse pull devotee for years, and the pull energy is in the rump, not the chest. The reason I asked is the I'm less familiar with the configuration of hunters and medieval war horses. I wouldn't expect them to be quite as "butt-heavy" as your neighborhood Belgian. What I hope to end up with is something with the lines of the glorious destrier Goliath in Lady Hawke.

M

He was a beauty, wasn't he?  He was a Fresian stallion who recently passed away.  Here's a link to the Fresian Society: 
http://www.friesianhorsesociety.com/Home.html

Also, take a look at the Belgians in "For Richer ... For Poorer" with Tim Allen and Kirstie Alley.  The film was funny but the Belgians are spectacular and you can get an idea of hindquarter proportions.

Draft horses use their haunches to power the pull and their forequarters to drive the pull.  It's a complicated mechanism until you actually watch them.  It's amazing what those animals can do.

I do not know much about horses...my dad did, however...

The horses in both movies mentioned were just awesome creatures!!!!

Goliath in Lady Hawke was amazing and the angles of the shots made even Rutger Hauer look so gallant!!!!  The music was just as wonderful!!!  I have loved that movie since it came out and wondered why no one ever mentions it!!!  Very sad to hear that beautiful horse passed away.

bookmarking (in search of a viable horse, too. Lady Hawke was what started me being a huge Rutger Hauer fan.)

Quote - bookmarking (in search of a viable horse, too. Lady Hawke was what started me being a huge Rutger Hauer fan.)

Me, Too!!!  That guy has been busy...the link shows his has won many awards and has been in so many movies, etc.

I know the feeling ... I'm a huge Rutger Hauer fan!

Not that I know anything about horses.. you just see a lot of Arabs and quarter horses in Tucson and Phoenix. The DAZ Charger does strike me as the most realistic. But a mane like this one: http://www.friesianhorsesociety.citymaker.com/albums/album_image/2081877/1038944.htm is going to take a lot of postwork. And that still leaves me looking for a second, rangey-looking beastie. (Now which is Rutger's best performance, The Hitcher or Blade Runner?)

scanmead, are you here in AZ, too?

The reason you see a lot of Arabians and Quarter Horses is, definitely, the climate.  Not a lot of humidity and a warm, dry climate make for great breeding conditions.  There's a big Arabian Society here and Scottsdale hosts an Arabian show every year out at Westworld that I never miss.

For the second, rangey-looking beastie, try the Mil Horse set to the Mustang morph and the Dun texture.  It's not too bad.  

Someone should do morphs for the Charger mane like they did for the MilHorse mane.

Oh, good grief. I just noticed you're from Tolleson! waves Born and raised in Tucson. Love horses, but they can tell I'm a pushover at 100 yards. (They stand on my feet, ignore me, nip at my legs...don't even ask what a Shetland once did.) Think that MilHorse can pass for an Irish Hunter, too? Now which one of those hair gurus can we coerce into doing the mane and tail up correctly?

If you're looking for a 'typical' medieval destrier - you need a horse of a similatr configuration to the Freisan. They are "semi-heavy" horses, designed to carry a Knight in armour into battle..and JUST that. They weren't your everyday riding animal..for that one used a 'palfry'. The Destrier was normally reserved purely for combat..Even when riding TO the battle, the palfry was used. When the middle ages finished, the breeders of destriers went looking for something for their stock to do. Around the same time, there was a growing demand for hevier animals for transport and farm work..so the breeders worked to 'beef up' the various destrier breeds..most of our current 'Draft' breeeds date from around this period.  To my mind, Bloodsongs horse is great..but as a draft breed. I'd vote for the Charger as a very viable option for the Destrier. Plus, if you're a Daz Platinum Club member, you can get him for $1.99

Freyfaxi --
Thanks for your contribution to the Rutger Hauer fanzine. ;)
I got the Charger when it came out, forgot about it, then discovered I didn't have any textures for it. One comment that puzzled me. You consider the Bloodsong horse "draft"? I just can't see it. I've hung out with pullers for more than ten years, and I can only think of one horse, of the whole crew, that was built like the Bloodsong horse -- a 2-year-old Belgian who hadn't beefed up but stood 6'4" at the shoulder. He was the tallest Belgian in the U.S. at the time, and his companion, a cubical mare I'd have married in a minute, was the heaviest.

At that same pull, I think I got my leg pulled. An old guy from Tremonton told me about a buddy of his up to Pocatella who was breeding Arabs to Percherons. "What is he getting?" I asked. "The biggest nervous horses you ever saw," he said.
Up until Freyfaxi's post, I was ready to buy the Charger pack and move on. Now I'm confused again. Is anyone actually using these horses?

Bookmarked....

Now I'm back sitting on the fence. http://www.fshr.org/fsh/purebred.html But the Charger does seem awfully close.

Quote - Now I'm back sitting on the fence.
http://www.fshr.org/fsh/purebred.html

Don't crowd. :)
The second to last row, on the right, looks like Goliath. And, interestingly enough, like Bloodsong's Heavy Horse. Oh Hell, I'm going to end up buying both. (And watching Lady Hawke again. Research, don't cha know.)
M

I haven't been able to find LadyHawke in HD-DVD so I have it on my HD-DVR ... lol!

I doubt this will influence your decision much, but just thought I'd mention that I made the Charger Mimic-compatible last year.

I don't recall Goliath having the long Friesian neck, but it does seem to be a breed "tell." There is a Ladyhawke fan site, BTW, for anyone anxious for a visual Hauer fix. I find it amusing, incidentally, that women react to "Navarre" the way I react to "Isabeau": pure, unabashed OMG. Goliath didn't have the length of neck, but he did have the dramatic arch.

I just found a Percheron mare for sale (special today: $25,000) who looks like the Charger incarnate. Meantime, it looks like I've talked myself into it: Buy both. Thanks a lot. I guess.

M

Gorgeous creatures!!!! Sigh.......................

Agreed, RAMWolff. Just to throw another must have into the mix, http://www.thegaitedhorse.com/icelandic_horse.htm http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/nature/sites/wildlife/pages/mountain_ponies.shtml These show the Celtic Pony, related to the Welsh Pony, used by "certain people" in the Dark and early Middle Ages, because of their endurance and spirit. Think a scaled-down MilHorse could pass? Daio, that Friesian looks just like what most people expect to see with an armored knight! (My copy of Lady Hawke is on VHS.)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!  makes grabby paw motions

FYI: I ordered the Charger add-on pack at Vista on Saturday morning. The CD was in my mail when I got home this evening. I had my doubts about ordering from a company that doesn't allow for downloads -- and I know others have too. So there's my personal experience, and the end of my reluctance to do business with Vista.

Bought the Heavy Horse too. Interesting comparisons. First and foremost, the HH is HUGE compared to MilHorse and P4 Horse. Haven't looked into whether the size is authentic; that will have to wait for the weekend. And HH is definitely thin in the rear, and it has no morphs I can find to fix it with. Significantly, it comes with four breed morphs and Belgian an't one of them.

On the other hand, it's a gorgeous horse; makes the others pale by comparison.

M

Attached Link: Alla's HH Textures and Poses

I agree wholeheartedly, the Heavy Horse is my favorite!  If you're looking for more texture options for the HH, Alla's are the best (and I believe only) set out there. 

Quote - > Quote - Bought the Heavy Horse too. Interesting comparisons. First and foremost, the HH is HUGE compared to MilHorse and P4 Horse. Haven't looked into whether the size is authentic; that will have to wait for the weekend. And HH is definitely thin in the rear, and it has no morphs I can find to fix it with. Significantly, it comes with four breed morphs and Belgian an't one of them.

On the other hand, it's a gorgeous horse; makes the others pale by comparison.

I agree wholeheartedly, the Heavy Horse is my favorite!  If you're looking for more texture options for the HH, Alla's are the best (and I believe only) set out there. 

I have the Alla stuff too. Swept the stores. Now if someone would just make me a Lady Godiva costume for Miki 2.0....

M

I have all avalible horses, there texture addons, free morphs....

Love the HH, but I allways uses some magnets on its underjaws, course they dont look perfect := . HH is far most the easiest to pose and give expressions.  Maybe someday I get my butt around and make a package with my morphs.

The P4 horse isn't a "heavy breed" but with all nice morph package for it, and lovelly texture - this horse is wonderful, nice to machine and have lots of addons.

The Charger...well I allways make his neck longer, to me he is more a working horse, not a powerful warhorse.

MIlHorse...Darn beauty, hard to make expressions - those darn ears are pain to pose.

To me the HH is the best Powerful, big "mountain king" horse, and I love how easy the ears is to pose, wich gives you more dynamic images.

(I found this forum, since I was looking for some good advice on how to pose the MilHorse ears :))

All the HH needs, for my purposes, is a way to get the back half more proportional to the front half. I spent last weekend at the state fair, mingling and photographing the heavy horses, and the distinction is clearer for me now. The Charger, despite its name, is a pulling horse, bulky and thick necked like a heavyweight lifter. The HH is built more like the big Bud-Clydes, wagon horses and team horses, but he's too chesty. He's just too dang chesty. I didn't see a horse of any type -- not even the prancy little barrel racers, with a greyhound/Superman chest like that.

M

Would the Chinese Zodiac Horse work?

http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/horse_chinese_zodiac_12_product_19491

Interesting. It reminds me of the Castagna epoxy American animals: recognizable but not "right." the face has a vaguely Chinese quality, but the body doesn't have the Chinese look (big body, big hooves). I don't know what it is about the CP animals, but they never quite work.

Thanks for reminding me, though.

M

Sorry - been a while since I posted here. What I was trying to say in my earlier post was that if you want a REAL medieval Destrier..that TODAY's  friesian breed is probably reasonably close..but it's NOT a destrier. THAT 'breed' (if it ever WAS a specific breed, and not a 'type'" ) is now extinct . Horse breeders back then didn't waste their time breeding horses that no-one was using any more....the breeders swapped into breeding heavier horses for agricultural and haulage work..that is where our MODERN "Draft" breedsa came from.
As far as models go..I have all the models mentioned, Bloodsong's, Charger, MilHorse and the basic P4 horse. I still prefer Charger..to me he looks basicly  'correct'  for a typical early medieval war horse. And don't forget..the  "'classic medieval" period went from about 1100-1450..a pretty long timespan. Are you after a horse to carry a norman/first crusade knight..or one from later..when full plate armour ws the fashion ? As armour increased in weight..so the 'destrier' was 'beefed up' to carry the extra weight. So..to define a 'typical;' destrier..you first need to determine the period you want. My interest is in the earlier medieval period..so I look for a horse for that period.

Further to what I said above..here's a pic I did a few years ago, using the 'charger' horse. It's not a great pic, I'll admit..but to me, it comes reasonably close to what I envision a Norman Knight circa 1070 could look like. I was (and still am) pretty much a poser nebie when I did this pic..so I know there are lots of errors :)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=736901

Freyfaxi --

I got what you meant, and based on what I've seen of Frisians, I can see the "destrier" in the breed. But of course the real destrier is long gone, just like the real Molosian hounds and the vicious looking coursing hounds in Medieval tapestries. I am looking for a horse for a variety of early Medieval settings -- nothing after 1200 AD. Interesting your selecting the Charger for early Medieval. The art horse that looks most like it, I think, is the Hawkwood mount, dating from the 1400's (Hawkwood). What I'm looking for is something closer to da Vinci's Sforza horse. Once again the HH fits the bill, except for the weird proportions of front to back.

M