Can anyone tell me what makes a good photographic background and what can spoil it or even make it a bad background image, for you?

I have loads of scenic photos and wanted to see what people would like.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1509725

hi, to share with my limited knowledge of background: i'd tried using pictures for my background; to start with, you may need a hi resolution one, import them into a flat screen or even a box(eg a box frm Poser primitive).

One major area to look at is the usage of the lighting, try playing with some AO or AI lighting-> those kinda lighting that makes the skin texture real...then it would look real on yr renders.

hope you understand what i am trying to say.

attached some of my renders for yr reference.

Hi there, just wondering is there a standard size that the pic should be for backgrounds? Jen

When you import the image, it will resize your window to fit the image, so whatever the largest you want your document window to be should be the size of your image.
Try to get the best quality image for the smallest size you can.  I know that RDNA has a lot of good background images in their freestuff.  They're nice, they're small, and they've got excellent lighting and detail :)  If nothing else, I'd use them as a comparison on what works really well as a background photo.

I'm not asking what to do with a background as I use them myself in Bryce - what I wanted to know is what sort of thing makes a background image good and what makes it less useful - or even bad?

This is so I can sort through the many photographs I already have and try to just offer the good ones for people to use.

That's all.

Anyone?

Oh and mine are all around 2848x2136 so high resolution.

> Quote - If nothing else, I'd use them as a comparison on what works *really well* as a background photo.

Yes, that's what I'm asking, I want people's opinions on good and bad backgrounds - what people want.

For instance - is this sort of thing any good to people?
(see image) (P.S. this is a small resolution image for the forum.)

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/filelib/index.php?Start=44&section_id=35

2848x2136 is a bit large, unless the end user has a ginormous screen. Make sure the photo is crisp, clean, and well-lit.  Bright, vibrant color tends to come through well.  Basically, start out with the best quality photo you can take, so the end user can edit it if they need to. I've linked to the stock photo section over at RDNA for some examples of stock photos I've used in works a while back. 

As for that specific photo, the only thing that would keep me from using it is the fact that the water is the forefront of the image.  This is just me, personally, so it's not like others wouldn't.  I wouldn't know where to begin to use that water.  To create a complete image.  Now, if you took that image while standing on the bank, and got a little bit of the bank in it, I would probably use it.  But, like I said, that's just me.  I'm sure there's someone that could get some decently creative use out of it ;)

that's a good photo, but how does one match the lighting of that using poser? notice that indirect lighting is a major factor in the photo.

Quote - that's a good photo, but how does one match the lighting of that using poser? notice that indirect lighting is a major factor in the photo.

If necessary, the end user could create an HDRI mapped IBL light for use with that specific photo.  Or, if franontheedge has gobs of time and the willingness to learn something new, that could be a boon and bonus to get people to use the photos ;)

Fran - The important things for me when considering a photo background, is... 

For ground base images anything with a level horizon - thats a must.
Aerial shots then any angle is OK 

Prefrably no people if possible. 

Size isn't a issue, (apart from what you can squeeze into the zip file)  I usually resample down

Does this help ?

Personally i would like to see some variety. So many of such backgrounds are of nature or landscapes or clouds. But how about some urban environments, city blocks, markets, shopping malls, streets, office cubicles, a backlot/backyard and so on. Or old/abandoned buildings like an old warehouse or some old shed somewhere. Maybe an old/new parking lot or junkyard. Without people would be a plus but it's not very hard to paint people out if the resolution and pic quality is high enough.

I have done a bunch of projects requiring such backs and always had to go shoot them myself cause there were so few choices available. Yes i know its all boring stuff but it's exactly the kind of images you often need to place behind characters.

Of course if you'v already shot the photos then it's not possible, but perhaps something to keep in mind for your next batch ?

I would look at the photo and imagine where models will go in it, there is a stone wall there where you could put someone fishing, water that you could have a boat or swimmer etc so this could be useful for someone. Jen

I need a POV that is consitant with a reasonable camera view on a human figure. I prefer cues in the image to help me fing the vanashing point or camera position. I like a lighting scheme I can reasonably emulate in my scene. I also don't buy water in foreground type images because I don't know how to work a figure in them. I find that DAZ Cyclorama scenes are usually too narrow but I sure like having a prop with a floor to it... making your image with a scaled up Nerd's Backdrop Tool would probably be cool... I think that just means putting your horizon line at mid vertical of the image but I am not sure, he has a turtorial I think. My big complaint is when I buy a background is if the only way to frame an image with a human figure scaled  and resting on the ground properly results in the head cut off... pictures are often not tall or wide enough... I find because the way Poser works for me at least I have to stitch photos rather than just use a single shot, Poser cameras just don't work like IRW cameras for me. Subject matter I like is domestic interiors. squalrr and decay settings and urban spaces... I have many very nice scenic outdoor settings for cyclorama already. Cheap cheap cheap is also good for me given there are a lot of free images available so it has got to be something I don't have personal access to like a rotten old cottage in the sticks or a rough neighborhood in the city. Boofy has the key, understanding where exactly a Poser figure can inhabit the scene, often ther just isn't the "floor space" to place a full frame Poser figure in proper scale to the image. A cool gimmic is elements like tables, chairs, etc to place figures partially behind to make it more a trick that they are actually in the scene.

**Quote - "that's a good photo, but how does one match the lighting of that using poser? notice that indirect lighting is a major factor in the photo."
and
"I would look at the photo and imagine where models will go in it"

Are we now suggesting that a background is the starting point for a render?
Like, Da Vinci painted some trees and a river then decided it would be nice to put a lady called Mona Lisa in the foreground?
Guy's, I'd start with the main bit, the characters, then find a background to suit.
I always choose a background with similar lighting (intensity/hue/contrast) and light direction as my scene.

I agree with ashley on not browsing thru photos, then choosing one as the scene basis. my point is that, if they're using the poser renderer, the characters are not gonna match the photo's lighting, so it will look very fake IMVHO. speaking as an art critic (and not an artist) I would prefer that poser users do their renders in such a way that the entire scene and background is composed of 3d objects. even something as obvious as using a sky photo background is gonna make it difficult to match the lighting when using the poser renderer.

I fully agreed with ashley9803. One should first conceptualise the object and then decide what background to suit. that is how i work on my image.

however, to render the stock background picture, one has to really understand the types of lighting required or best suit.

on my end, i usually use VUE to render as it makes things more realistic. check out the above example of using a stock background picture & simulate with the object with a suitable lighting.

I agree that most stock pics will not stand up to close scrutiny against a poser figure, but a lot of members dont want that level of expertise. Most just want something to pose thier figures against to display thier ideas. I am not a pro and have very little idea of the stuff above with lighting etc but have used a few backgrounds merely to convey my ideas not to win prizes or accolades so keep that in mind as well when you are going through your pics. If it is for freebies just post a few and see what grabs peoples interest...you never know. Jen

re. what ashley sez... I guess I am not clear in my meaning, it is not that the renderer should conform their figure to a background (though why not really since in a way Poser is a form of digital interactive "paint by number" for many users who just want to make pretty pictures this way) but that the photographer must keep in mind the nature of Poser lights and cameras and the needs of Poser figures in composing the original photograph. Some people sell background photographs that simply do not permit Poser figures to integrate with them. Myself I use photo backgrounds so far only for a sureal effect, collage almost... to get an artificial look like when some pervert glues the head cut from the photo of an office picnic on a Sears catalog laungerie figure and pasts that on a postcard of Tahiti :) My mother is always sending me photos of family events where she has cut out some one who wasn't in attendance from an other photo and pasted them in the scenes and then color copied it so the edit is "seamless" :) I have done images with Poser figures and photo backgrounds for either Photoshop "natural media" watercolor effects or actual real world drawings. Above I was testing dphoadly's Posette with unimesh mapping and put a background in behind just for fun rather than having the gray void. I find I can fake integration to some extent by having background and figure on seperate layers and then diing some post-work dodge and burn on each seperately.

Attached Link: Spanish Tourist Attraction (Warning Nudity in the linked image)

> Quote - I agree with ashley on not browsing thru photos, then choosing one as the scene basis. my point is that, if they're using the poser renderer, the characters are not gonna match the photo's lighting, so it will look very fake IMVHO. speaking as an art critic (and not an artist) I would prefer that poser users do their renders in such a way that the entire scene and background is composed of 3d objects. even something as obvious as using a sky photo background is gonna make it difficult to match the lighting when using the poser renderer.

 

Respectfully, I disagree. Check out my linked gallery image. The photo lighting was so interesting that I designed my whole concept around it. I was able to match the direction and amount of light/shadow from the sun pretty well I think. 

The photo worked well because it was a very large image and was level. I only used a small part of the photo in order to focus the attention on the figure.

Oh forgot to mention - I was delighted that there were people in the photo - imagine their reactions!

Attached Link: Desert Wind

I think sky photos are really useful. Try as I might, I can't get Poser to render real-looking clouds in a decent amount of time. Really tedious. Photos fix that up right away.

This is great, gives me some ideas as to what to look for or what might make a good background.

I'm usually out taking photos for texture work and the last time I used a photo as a background it was for something to see through a window when the study was of light through glass bottles on the windowsill.

I haven't used many background images in more prominent positions, - very interesting to see both examples and people's opinions as to what they like.

Thank you so much.

Oh the pic of the river? I was a little way back from the near bank but I was trying to get textures of that side of the building as well as trying to record what the layout of the mill was - since I was modelling the watermill at the time.

I have now moved from that part of the country, Surrey, to here in Wales - I'll have to see what I can find here.

I've also been playing with using my photos as backgrounds again - it's like Baggins Bill says - it's getting the shadows lined up and of the same length and "shade" that the key to making this work.   

My lastest stab is this one - straight Vue render - using IBL lighting - the only post work is using Optik Verves freebie plugin - Virtual Photographer [natural portrait setting] to add some grain and flatten the colours.  

Something it seems no one has dealt with and that I have not worked out myself is photos intended spcifically for windws... I often resort to dumb tricks like putting a brick wall across from the window because the images I shoot never work for filling windows because the perspective is all wrong. I have not figured out how to shoot for images to go in windows. I have even tried panaramics from rooftop... just putting a cyclorama scene outside the windows seems to never work.

If the scene in poser is dead straight usually I just use the photo as a backgound image. 

For stuff thats outside a window I shoot an image straight on - then place this on an plane or cube and align it level with the window but slighlty back. Then if the window scene looks "crooked" I just adjusting the plane to cope with that.

If I want using a background image like a sky and a photo then making an alpha plane with the alpha plane is the way to go.

One thing that can help a little is to dirty the windows a little with a transmap, as that can give sometimes give extra depth.   
 
One trick you can do if you want to use renders as background images is to create the background as if the wall wasn't there. Just leave a cube as a marker of where the wall will go.

Save the camera postion and your scene and render roughly using the same light set so the shadows match up. Render it. 

Now do a save as, delete all the background stuff and make your  scene up, move the camera around to line stuff up if needed, now replacing the marker with the wall and window. Import the 1st render as a background now load your 1st camera postion. Now render :) 

This way always work if you want a lot of figures in a scene and poser can't handle it. 

Interesting. Thanks.