After searching around and trying almost all of them

To my conclusion Poser Imports the best in Vue

With my workflow plan almost complete I just want to know what is the best program to fill in this gap?

1. Modeling, Creating Content for Poser (??????) Carrera vs Blender
2. Poser
3. Final Render Program (Vue) Vue vs Bryce vs Cinema 4D (Vue Won)

So what would go into #1? Carrera? or Blender? Putting aside complexity of programs, or pricing.

I tried Shade, but not sure how the process works.
In the past I did most of my modeling in 3DS Max and got kinda use to that interface, but I discovered poser, and wanted to attain the right software that will support it naturally.

So far Vue is the best Final Rendering for me.

Any thoughts, suggestions, opinions or comments? Not from a price or complexity standpoint, I don't want any biased opinions because of Money, or how complicated a program is. I just want to know what will be good to my preference.

you could use 3DS for the modelling but you'd have to rig the figure in Poser (actually - that goes for all modellers)

Blender is a lot cheaper than Carrara but the learning curve is more of a sheer cliff :)

Quote - you could use 3DS for the modelling but you'd have to rig the figure in Poser (actually - that goes for all modellers)

Blender is a lot cheaper than Carrara but the learning curve is more of a sheer cliff :)

Some people tell me to lean towards Carrara because it suppliments more for photography and design, which I am more attracted to.

So the learning curve for blender is steep?
If that is the case then I am leaning towards carrara then, if Carrara Interface is similar to 3DS Max then that should be my choice.

ahhhh someone help me decide carrara or blender?

If you want to model content for Poser, then I'd take a serious look at Modo.  Modo outshines other modelers which cost far more.

www.luxology.com

It's Poser-friendly, and the folks over there aren't Poser-paranoid.

Vue is an excellent choice for rendering.  Carrara is excellent, too.

Oh, yeah -- I should add that while I like Carrara a lot, and I recommend it to others (I have C6Pro) -- Carrara in its current incarnation isn't as Poser-friendly as Vue.  Vue imports Poser scenes without a hitch -- full compatibility.  Carrara's current version can "mostly" import Poser scenes: but it isn't fully compatible with P7.  I, for one, am hoping that Carrara will eventually be made to be more compatible with the latest incarnations of Poser -- but we'll see.

Quote - If you want to model content for Poser, then I'd take a serious look at Modo.  Modo outshines other modelers which cost far more.

www.luxology.com

It's Poser-friendly, and the folks over there aren't Poser-paranoid.

Vue is an excellent choice for rendering.  Carrara is excellent, too.

Thank you poser friendly is a must! must!

I'll take a look and see how that works out for me.

Thanks for the info.

What do you mean by poser-paranoid?

You have also to consider Hexagon. It's cheap, it's great. And if you go with Carrara, it has a native bridge with it.
BTW, i use Hexagon for all my modelling needs, including Poser content, and all is perfect.

Quote - What do you mean by poser-paranoid?

It's an old debate -- there's an attitude among some highend program users that Poser isn't worth mentioning in any "serious" discussion of 3D.  This, in spite of the fact that Poser is seen being used more and more often in professional roles such as advertising, television work, and other commercial applications.

You probably won't run into that attitude on Luxology's website -- if you ask for help over some Modo / Poser question.  They'll be happy to answer your Poser-related questions there.

BTW - Modo is a "highend" modeler.  It equals or surpasses other modelers in a number of ways.  And it has a comparatively low price -- which is a plus.  It's not as cheap as Blender -- but it's much easier to learn: while perhaps being more powerful.

I've yet to meet a modeler who tried Modo and who didn't quickly realize its potential.  Modo is new on the 3D scene: and it's an up and coming app -- coming on strong.  It'll be interesting to see where it goes in a few years from now.

Quote - > Quote - What do you mean by poser-paranoid?

 

It's an old debate -- there's an attitude among some highend program users that Poser isn't worth mentioning in any "serious" discussion of 3D.  This, in spite of the fact that Poser is seen being used more and more often in professional roles such as advertising, television work, and other commercial applications.

You probably won't run into that attitude on Luxology's website -- if you ask for help over some Modo / Poser question.  They'll be happy to answer your Poser-related questions there.

BTW - Modo is a "highend" modeler.  It equals or surpasses other modelers in a number of ways.  And it has a comparatively low price -- which is a plus.  It's not as cheap as Blender -- but it's much easier to learn: while perhaps being more powerful.

I've yet to meet a modeler who tried Modo and who didn't quickly realize its potential.  Modo is new on the 3D scene: and it's an up and coming app -- coming on strong.  It'll be interesting to see where it goes in a few years from now.

Ohhh , I heard about that, Its discrimination! Nothing wrong with poser at all, but i guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The Modo sounds promising, maybe when i have the chance I will download the demo. As with the blender being cheaper, I normally go with the you get what you pay for routine (not always) but i do keep an open mind, and I love programs with diversity, and any program that is poser friendly is ok in my book.

Thanks for the replies, I will check out hexagon as well and see if it suits me.

I can't speak to Hexagon, because I haven't tried it.  I've got it, but I haven't tried it.

It's been my observation that Hexagon gets decidedly mixed reviews from those who have tried it.  Some think its great & highly recommend it: while others hate it.  However: Hexagon's price is worth the risk of taking it out for a test drive without extreme worries.  If you decide that you don't like it, then you won't have lost much. 

If price is a big issue: then Blender or Hexagon.

I've never encountered the "mixed review" phenomenon with Modo.  I'm not saying that it's never happened: but I've never seen it.  The feedback that I've seen has been about 98% positive......which to me is a strong hint.

another reason to consider Modo its renderer IMO is better then either Vue or Carrara offer, and lightning fast, of course you would need to learn to set up materials from the ground up but you also have a much more versitile material system. Modo also does 3D painting for texture work as well as displacement sculpting.

Quote - another reason to consider Modo its renderer IMO is better then either Vue or Carrara offer, and lightning fast, of course you would need to learn to set up materials from the ground up but you also have a much more versitile material system. Modo also does 3D painting for texture work as well as displacement sculpting.

Good stuff, I take it the 3D painting part blows Zbrush out of the water? Not too sure.

In terms of Modeling for Poser, it sounds good, But how does it go agaisnt modeling vs Max or Maya? (In case if i ever go beyond the poser realm)

For the answer to that, you'd need to talk to someone who has used all three programs -- I haven't used Max or Maya.  Keep in mind that you are talking about a considerable price difference there.  Plus Max and Maya aren't just modelers -- they are also animation programs, etc..

I can say that I know of 3DS Max users (at least one in this forum) who prefer to use Modo over Max for strict modeling purposes.  They find Modo to be easier and faster to use in the sense of fewer clicks & clearer commands to accomplish the same job.  Afterwards, the model can be imported into Max (or whatever), if desired.

I've also read of other highend users preferring Modo (strictly as a modeler) over Maya or the others.

Ultimately: it's largely an individual thing as to which software you, personally would prefer to use.  There's no such thing as a single, "ultimate" 3D program.  Each one usually does certain things better than the others.  It just depends upon where you want to go.

For a combination of Poser compatiblilty coupled with sheer power and ease of use I'd recommend Modo over the others.  At least if Poser compatibility is a major consideration: and your goal is to make content for Poser.

This is just my opinion...

Does Modo blow Zbrush out of the water? No. They do very simular things. Just like Maya doesn't blow Max out of the water, or the other way around. 2 very simular programs doing very simular things. One might have a special doo-dad that the other doesn't but that's about it. User preference is about all.

Now how does Modo/Zbrush do against Maya and Max...just in terms of modeling, not getting into the rendering and dynamics that they offer...personally I would say Max/Maya still beat them out. Can you model in Modo/Zbrush, yes. But you definately have more control in Maya/Max.

Max and Maya are very high end programs and not for the light-hearted. There is a signicant learning curve to either one.
Most pros use Modo and Zbrush for fine detailing of an existing mesh...not creating one. Now I'm not saying they can't create a mesh, I'm saying most use them to detail.

Like Xenophonz said, it all comes down to user preference in the end.
Hope this helps

I don't get it. You have 3DSMax and you are looking around for greener grass than that?

I think you should tell us what aspect of 3D is really driving you. What are you trying to accomplish?

::::: Opera :::::

I'm a modo convert. I was a Hex fan until Daz broke the vert order. You cannot use hex to make morphs now without having to use work arounds, as in uvmapper and or scripts that you still need poser to run. Daz does not seem to think this needs fixing. That or they will charge you for the fix as in Hex 3.

Carrara is not a great modeler, no matter what other carrara users will tell you. It is a bit better than the last version but still does not have all the tools as a modeler has as in Hex. But it's strength lies in the muti tasks that it can do, modeling is just a small part of it.

I have  and use Shade8.5 for curves and line fits. Also has great toon rendering and poser ports over to shade just as good as Vue except the shaders but has a much better render and light system.

So, the work flow your suggesting Poser/vue and a modeler. Can't help you with a modeler because modeling apps are very personal and you need to find which one works for you the way you think and not what anyone else uses or thinks. What works for me can be a night mare for you to use. You will need to try all the demos and even the free ones such as Wings3d, blender and anim8tor. 

I use Modo for most things now. 

Hey beryld and other Modo people....have you done any animation in Modo? I saw a demo vid of a fly-thru of an office or schoolroom, just camera movement. It was awesome. 

Can you animate anything beyond the camera and lights?

::::: Opera :::::

I don't have 3DS max but I do know how to use it at a beginner level But I like poser since they have models at a good price and it makes it easier and faster to make scenes to tell a story however, they don't make everything I need and now I'm at a point where I want to make content for poser. But I don't have that much of modeling experience And now I am addicted to poser's ease of making scenes for a story over 3ds max. As I said before I need my own content but I want it to be more native with poser and I truly want to be able to render my poser scenes in max but it would not be feasable at all. I hope this clears up what I'm trying to do. In the future when I'm ready to move on I will jump on max or Maya But for now I really like poser

Another one you might consider is Cimena4D, and if you use the INTERPOSER PRO plugin you can open all your Poser content directly into C4D fully textured and rigged.

Operaguy, yes that is the main way, for now. But with all the tools at your desposal you can do a lot more than the average camera type animations.

You should read the forums and the weekly news/every friday. They give links to what the more experienced are doing. Some amazing work and animations. But, many of these are done by people in profesional studios.

DarkEdge I think you are confusing Modo with Mudbox. MudBox is a displacement sculpting tool, Modo is an extremely compatant modeler first and formost which IMO is actually probably more precise in some ways then Maya and Max but I'm sure there are some maya and max users who will disagree with me. modo does have some displacement sculpting ability but it doesnt really come close to ZBrush or Mudbox as far as displacement sculpting. enigmafox no I wouldnt say Modo blows ZBrush out of the water as far as 3d paint is concerned, with some limitations ZBrush is still by far one of the most compatant 3d paint and the best barr none displacement sculpting program. Modo still has a little way to catch up, it still can't handle the mesh density or map size that ZBrush can. For 3D paint I would put CINEMA4D's Bodypaint on top, simply becouse it uses layers and other photoshop like tools, and has probably the best Projection painting features on the market. but it has no actual displacement sculpting tools, you can paint displacement in Bodypaint and then render to see what you did, but you can't actually sculpt it. MegaJax makes a good point too, with InterPoserPro you can import fully rigged poser figures into C4D and have one of the best solutions on the market, but you are going to go over a grand with C4D/Bodypaint, and just the advanced renderer. add all of the other modules and you are in Max teritory.

Being more interested in inorganic, hard-surface modeling: I chose Modo over zBrush.  If organic modeling is your thing, then zBrush might be the way to go.

C4D comes highly recommended.  And yes, Bodypaint has a top reputation.

Once again: it's all an individual thing in the end.  Ultimately, you'll have to decide what you, yourself are the most comfortable with -- and which software(s) does (do) what you want for it (them) to do.

You'll also have to decide how much money you have to spend.  :sneaky:  It's a feature / price balance.

Basically, ALL of the "highend" programs have excellent things to offer.  So you'll have to weigh one against the other: and then go with the one that appeals to you.

For "highend", I have Lightwave and Modo.  And AutoCAD -- but that's not really a 3D app of the type that we are discussing here.

BTW - one problem that I have with many of these "which highend program should I use?" threads is that they frequently end up descending into an argument.  Fortunately, I haven't seen that happen here yet.  That's good.

Aye!
And wdupre, you are correct sir. My mistake.
hangs head in shame

Yes, well he did say :- Quote- "I don't want any biased opinions because of Money, or how complicated a program is. I just want to know what will be good to my preference."

And I have tryed most of the 3D packages out there at one time or another over the years an IMO Cinema is one of the best I have ever used, I found Maya and 3Ds Max very hard to get to grips with, although to be fair when I tried them out I was only just starting out with 3D (I think they were both only on versions 3 to 5 or something like that) and they are not the best to try and learn on, brain surgary or Quantum Physics would have been easier LOL

I would tell you to download all the demo versions you can and then give each one a good test run to see for yourself which one YOU prefer, as XENOPHONZ says every one has their own way of working and what might be easy for one person to do in say Maya someone else might really find very difficult but they might find that they can do it in Modo when the other one can't.

Thanks for all of your opinions and suggestions.

Simply when it comes to exporting and importing I prefer to be simple with no plug ins.

Cinema 4D cannot beat Vue in my book because of the aspect of taking Poser files natively without the use of plug ins, as for the better rendering program between Vue and Cinema 4D That I can worry later, plus i tried interposer with 4D and I seem to be getting alot of weird mesh problems.

So 4D is is a no go.
Bryce's Interface kinda irks me a bit so that is a no go as well.
Blender was a bit complicated and I don't think it had everything I needed. But I will still keep this in mind.

Of course I am not asking what High End Program to use as in Lightwave, Maya, 3DS Max or others to use, because I know its purely not simple to set things up. However I am fairly comfterable with the Max environment.

Vue offers a similar environtment to max which I really like, So Vue gets approval from me on that aspect and because it takes in pz3 files with absolutly no plug ins.

Initially I wanted to export everything into max since I am comfterable with the modeling environment in max and maybe if i needed I can just model the extra stuff I need there if I cannot do it in poser, But as luck would have it, its not so simple to do so.

In conclusion for me Vue is the best final render for my situation, or rather i prefer it.
as for modeling someone did mention that no matter what I would still had to do the rigging and posing manually, if that is the case that is fine, All I really need to make right now is weapons, clothing and hair, and possible figures if i got the time for it.

I haven't tried modo yet, but if it is what I think it is, Powerful yet simple to use, then I might go for it.

and if it is Poser friendly, I'm sold.

Thanks again!

I love Modo. I can't recommend it enough. Zbrush is awesome too and best for certain tasks, but it was designed by aliens and recovered from a crashed UFO. Not exactly intuitive for mere earth men.

enigmafox - One thing you are saying i don't understand: you are talking about a modeler "Poser friendly " to make content for Poser such as props and clothes. But to do so, you only need a program that can export in obj format into Poser, and the rigging is done in Poser. I think all the modelling apps export in obj format, so i guess all the modelling apps are "Poser friendly" in the way you are talking about.
There is no native modeler for Poser, as it's IN Poser you transform a simple obj in a pz2.

You have to consider the prices too, as an app like Modo is FAR more expensive than Hex (or Blender of course). If it's not an issue, try your way around them.
As an Hex user, i must say you can do all you want for Poser content with it without any problem. Even morphs, you only need UVMapper (which is free) if you want to import an already grouped obj into Hex to make a morph. You also have tools for 3D paintings and displacement sculpting (even i didn't use that feature).

Quote - enigmafox - One thing you are saying i don't understand: you are talking about a modeler "Poser friendly " to make content for Poser such as props and clothes. But to do so, you only need a program that can export in obj format into Poser, and the rigging is done in Poser. I think all the modelling apps export in obj format, so i guess all the modelling apps are "Poser friendly" in the way you are talking about.
There is no native modeler for Poser, as it's IN Poser you transform a simple obj in a pz2.

You have to consider the prices too, as an app like Modo is FAR more expensive than Hex (or Blender of course). If it's not an issue, try your way around them.
As an Hex user, i must say you can do all you want for Poser content with it without any problem. Even morphs, you only need UVMapper (which is free) if you want to import an already grouped obj into Hex to make a morph. You also have tools for 3D paintings and displacement sculpting (even i didn't use that feature).

I see, well i played with the Modo Demo, it seems to be user friendly, well to me it does, not sure for others. Price isn't an issue for me right now, but if modo has everything i would need in a modeling program without having to jump around dealing with add ons or plug ins to get the certain features I need, then I am willing to save up for it, and of course it is fairly much more simple to use then maya and max.

Hex will be next on my list to try.

Thanks again everyone.

You are certainly welcome.

Modo is a great choice for a modeler.  IMO, ya can't go wrong with Modo.

Does Modo require a dongle? If not I'm probably sold.

No -- Modo does not require a dongle.  Modo's copy protection consists of generating a software license key online.

Silo 2.0 is not a bad modeler either.
www.nevercenter.com/

I'd be interested in being able to run it on more than one computer as long as I don't have the software running at the same time with two different users kind of like Poser's terms? The copy of a book thing they explain in the terms of use. 

Quote - I'd be interested in being able to run it on more than one computer as long as I don't have the software running at the same time with two different users kind of like Poser's terms? The copy of a book thing they explain in the terms of use. 

I'm not sure about the answer to that -- I haven't looked into it.  But I will say that most software packages that I've seen will allow at least two installed copies (a desktop copy & a laptop copy) under one license.  You'll probably need to visit Luxology's site to check on licensing stipulations in regards to Modo.

www.luxology.com

Here is what Luxology has to say about it. I just looked. See what it says about dongle. LOL.

Thank you for purchasing modo.

The registration process for modo is only necessary if you purchased your product from a reseller. If you purchased your product via the Luxology on-line store, you can bypass this registration step and get your software and license directly from your account in the Registered Products section

There are 3 easy steps to get your modo software registered.

1. Create an account (or log in if you already have one).
2. Fill out the registration form.
3. Obtain your software and license from your account in the Registered Products section.

It's just that easy.

And remember, once you have registered your modo software, you can download modo and use it wherever you are and whenever you may need to re-install it. This means you can download modo if you want to use it at another location or if, for example, you purchased a new computer. There is no dongle (hardware key) needed for modo and we license modo to you—not to your computer.

I wonder how many Modo users there are here at R'sity. It would be nice to have our own forum, if and thats a big if, there were enough of us.

Yeah -- my impression of Luxology as a company is that they are top-tier when it comes to customer relations -- it addition to making a great program.  What more could you want?

Thanks, beryld for looking up that information.  I'm at my office right now, and did not have the time to research the question.  That's good to know.

Quote - I wonder how many Modo users there are here at R'sity. It would be nice to have our own forum, if and thats a big if, there were enough of us.

I'd very much like to see that, too.  It's best to contact the admins directly with a request, if a new Modo forum is desired.  In the meantime, you'll probably find it easy to discuss Modo-related matters in the Lightwave forum -- or in here.

snort  This is the Poser forum, and most of the discussions are directly Poser-related.  But we also talk about D|S (maybe more here than in the D|S forum), esoteric functions in various highend applications, and cats.

Poser is the gateway for many.......Poser is the gateway.  And it's the meeting point for many.  It's the common ground that brings Lightwave, C4D, and Max users together into the same forum.  Hmmmm.........:m_thoughtful:

*Yeah -- my impression of Luxology as a company is that they are top-tier when it comes to customer relations -- it addition to making a great program.  What more could you want?

*Agree with you, Robert - sometimes they are already overdoing it a little. I tried Modo (demo) and I think it's a great tool for anybody who is not an old, bit stupid, stubborn Windows Conventions used guy like me.
Hexagon does one thing for shure: it sucks - until you learn to save every important step in modelling. All my shops stuff and my freebies are made in Hex - from a walnut fairy boat to a celtic harp to a clubs facade to even V4.1 facemorphs, it's versatile, has no real limits and it integrates smoothly with UVMapper. Like with every other program, one has to know what he's doing, of course.  But - it cost's not too much more than a smile, and on most machine config's it really works - and it follows (most of the time) windows conventions. It has got paint and displacement paint options (which I don't use), and after some, let's say 60-80 hours everything neccessary has gone into the bones and the marrow - and becomes pretty easy to use.

To answer the initial question: I would give it a trial.

LOL. I never even thought of the lightwave forum, kinda makes sence, with the Modo developers that did lightwave first. I guess some things are simular, I don't know, never have used Lightwave.

Poser was my gateway to all that I do now.

Quote - Poser was my gateway to all that I do now.

That's true for most of us, I think.  Although some seem to be ashamed to acknowledge their Poser roots, or that Poser was what originally got them interested in 3D.

I believe that Rendo needs to open a Cat Fancy forum.  Or at least they should provide a link to the Cat Fancier's Association at the top of the Poser forum page.

http://www.cfainc.org/

At a guess, a Cat Fancier's forum would cater to approx. 85% of the membership here.

Quote - *Yeah -- my impression of Luxology as a company is that they are top-tier when it comes to customer relations -- it addition to making a great program.  What more could you want?

*Agree with you, Robert - sometimes they are already overdoing it a little. I tried Modo (demo) and I think it's a great tool for anybody who is not an old, bit stupid, stubborn Windows Conventions used guy like me.
Hexagon does one thing for shure: it sucks - until you learn to save every important step in modelling. All my shops stuff and my freebies are made in Hex - from a walnut fairy boat to a celtic harp to a clubs facade to even V4.1 facemorphs, it's versatile, has no real limits and it integrates smoothly with UVMapper. Like with every other program, one has to know what he's doing, of course.  But - it cost's not too much more than a smile, and on most machine config's it really works - and it follows (most of the time) windows conventions. It has got paint and displacement paint options (which I don't use), and after some, let's say 60-80 hours everything neccessary has gone into the bones and the marrow - and becomes pretty easy to use.

To answer the initial question: I would give it a trial.

I really need to give Hexagon a look sometime.  Just so that I can say that I have.

*I believe that Rendo needs to open a Cat Fancy forum.  Or at least they should provide a link to the Cat Fancier's Association at the top of the Poser forum page.

My cat says, you're right.

I really need to give Hexagon a look sometime.  Just so that I can say that I have.

Yeah, maybe I like it, because it's so pretty much like me - misunderstood.....

Yea, thanks for looking the license information up beryld. I'm going to download the demo and give it a good look over.   

Did someone say a cat?  ;)
I'm a hexagon digging cat :)

Quote - I really need to give Hexagon a look sometime.  Just so that I can say that I have.

Yeah, maybe I like it, because it's so pretty much like me - misunderstood.....

Heh......we 3D types are all 'different', I think.  As everyone knows: normal people play video games all of the time -- they don't work in 3D.  They only play there.  

Quote - Did someone say a cat?  ;)
I'm a hexagon digging cat :)

Ah-ha!  So that's what my cats are digging in when I hear them digging..........

Attached Link: T59 Cloth workshop

I'm surprised, 25,000 + views now. I never thought it would be that high.

As I had said earlier, I loved Hex untill Daz screwed up Hex2.2. I don't believe in having to use workarounds and lengthen the work flow, when it worked right in the first place and they never bothered to fix it in the last release. To many users saying that it's OK to use the workarounds. Not cool as far as I'm concerned. So I use Hex 2.1. It worked fine for me.