Now first let me say, I've read about lighting in Practical Poser 6. I've read Oliver's tuts at RDNA. I've collected lights such as Roberta's, Bagginsbills, and tons over at RDNA. Okay got that out the way. I still can't understand how to create good lighting other than how to actually delete and add lights to a scene. So for now, I have to use *premade* lights. I tend to use Bagginsbills the most. But...I want my figure to have a radiant Naomi Campbell complexion. As she is right now, she's too light. Also I do recognize this could simply be a shader issue where it's not so much the lights, but playing around with Hue and Saturation to achieve this. I just want to hear professional opinions of which way to lean.

Thanks.

I'm not professional, but the skin tone appears pretty blatantly different, thus you get different results.

Do you have a 2D application in which you can manipulate texture maps?

Photoshop is more or less the default application, but there are others that are much less money and perhaps even free!
http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php/GIMP

Very few textures for human characters are painted. Instead, they originate from photos. It is fairly obvious the texture you have started with did not originate from a picture of a Black woman.

Yes, Naomi is fairly light-skinned, but still her skin color is rooted in the umber and reds and green.  

I guess what I am trying to say is that it would be easier to start with a texture map closer and darker than hers, then pull out the unneeded tones until you have the right mix. That is easier that attempting to paint in the right tones.

Just my opinion.

::::: Opera :::::

I am far from being an expert on lighting, but the thing that strikes me most about the top insert as opposed to the render is the contrast. The photo has a higher contrast, it looks like much more fill light is present in the render. Tutorials on photographic lighting are offten the best place to to learn the basics of lighting.

'(digital)Lighting and Rendering' by Jeremy Birn, one of the lighting technical directors at Pixar. Get this book. Study this book. Operaguy addressed the starting issue, and les is right on the lighting. Look at Campbell's close-up. Your master light is shining on her right face, but you have a couple of kickers illuminating the left, so you don't get half her face in dark shadow (and looking at her left, you notice how you don't detect any hotspots? What is -actually- there is most likely a colored reflector panel or three....but in digital lighting it's extremely costly in rendering time to deal with a render engine that can actually do such reflective lighting effects. So you use the kicker lights common in film lighting to simulate this). In fact if you look at both the Campbell photos, you can see they take pains to use offset lighting, to bring out her bone structure; your image has a keylight shining right in her face, which tends to wash out surface details. Good lighting isn't about power; it's about playing bright against dark, color against color, to bring out the most detail, or to set a mood.

pjz99- I consider you all (BB, Operaguy, MissNancy, Samstherapy, Acadia, StormChaser, PhilC, Cath etc) the professionals or the experts on the board. I should've said the regulars. Those with way more knowledge than myself.

Operaguy: Yes I have PSP9. Oh so it's better to change the color in a 2D program than mess with either lighting or Hue/Sat in Poser for a texture that isn't darker? Ok got it now! :)

Lesbentley: Thanks for pointing to the Fill light as the culprit.

Thank you all! I have ideas now on what to do.

Dale B----just saw your response. Thank you. :)

one advantage to matching skin tone in PS is that you can have the target photo open right next to or on another layer from the one you are modifying. You keep tweaking until they get very close.

Starting with a texture map very close to your target means you can do 'other things' with the lights (as suggested above) without worrying that adjustments will throw off some sort of color tweaking you've go going in shaders.

Just one more suggestion....if you take away the gloss on your render you will get closer to the dry lips -- with a lot of lines etc -- and that will kick up your verisimilitude.

:: og ::

On that note the bump strength is a little weak, especially at the lips.

**SSAfam1, you should replace the colors the skin textures are to light for this kind of color skin, that have more gold brown base.. everything else was fine, I checked out the colors and replace them , this is still not perfect but can help you a bit.. Dark color skin are not simple to work with to get realistic effect if painted.. mostly pictures of pple with dark skin have total different exposure as by pictures of pple with light color of skin so dont look on the pics as a reference.. she usual wearing also makeup..  see the pic above, you can just replace the color on your textures using photoshop.. and believe me she have darker skin color as show up in her pictures... I  know it b/c I spend a time with her at work a time ago, if you wanna make glamour then go for the golden brown if natural go more for red-golden-brown Cath**

**Mec4D, I have been looking at your IBL lighting products and the promo materials seem to advise setting the surface color of all things in the scene using your lights to a 50% gray rather than a white. I am currious as to whether this is simply something arived at by experience or is there a theoretical basis for it that you could explain to a simple person like me? Also do you set all those materials to gray one-by one?
**

Yes I did explain it in the HDR discusion before in poser forum, just search for Mec4D in the forum there are my last posts, sorry have not the link I am on new mashine.. but well , the HDR IBL is much more powerful that simple poser light, when I create my HDR IBL light set I have always also pictures of a white ball or material that allow me later to set the right diffuse color for the models, in many options the diffuse color of the white object in the pictures was compared to gray scale 127-127-127  that is not half of gray exactly , this is the gray scale of half red channel.. all models with the Diffuse color set to 127-127-127 looking much more realistic and much more deep in the scene, models with white diffuse color fade out to 2D.. or are over exposed .. you know this are experiences from the last 2 years so not just quick sollution, I did try to get the intensity of the HDR IBL lights down to avoid change of the diffuse color but the effect was just not what I want .. and for sure not accurate... HDR IBL set on 50% intensity (max 90) together with one Infinite or spot light with the intensity of 25% to max 50 % create the most realistic renders with Color-safe mode , the models are not over exposed what mean looking more 3D and not 2D... The base info have to do with photography and I just try to put my knowledge into poser light and I would say I am very happy with the effect.. There is another little problem on the market, everyone set own diffuse color as they like it to do, one set white to 255 others set to 204 etc... there is not standart in Poser for the Diffuse Color of the model surfaces in any products on the market, everyone set own shader nodes for the light they made or own..  there would be a great idea to have set the surfaces to gray in an automatic way, I did inlude the shader node that allow you to change the diffuce color but not if there are other nodes plugin already.. 

in the image above is how I start to working with the surfaces of the model, I can plug in textures or change the colors ( the gray don't affect or change the color or texture as only protect from bein over exposed what is very bad thing for renders or animation that are make for movies, DVD or TV) 
I do not use standart poser lights no more, always HDR IBL as base for the GI, and eventual spot or inifnite light for the ( sun-lamp) light and shadows.. 

Cath

Ohhh I love your image Cath! This is what I came up with after working with it all day. This is the tone I wanted but it needs shine. I added a specular node, but it's still not like how your image is with the shine. 

I'm not looking for the photorealistic art like many on here. I see a lot of photos with deep pores and such. I'm more into the "airbrushed" stuff. LOL Covering up the pores. The glamour shots. This is my reason for the lack of extreme bump mapping.

I tried out two eye colors for the eyewhites as I believe shades of gray in the whites look more believable.

How do I add shine the right way like in your image Cath without washing out my color?

Is it better for you guys to spot issues on a white background?

you can plug in the Alternate Specular Blinn node for the guiet shine , if the bump maps on the nose area are to heavy it will block the real shine as you see in pictures..
I know what you mean with the pories etc.. this don't mean always looking real, pple sometimes get over limit it looks to scary especially on the ladies..  a nice shine on the surface can make it looking nice too.. 
I see you made some progress the color is much better.. try out the blinn

Just a suggestion...take it or leave it....

When working with intense close-up face/head shots, if your camera has a short focal length, you get distortion. It's that "fish-eye" effect. You may wish to change the focal length of your shooting camera to something above 100. I use 125, others say they stay down at about 88. After you change it, you have to move the camera, of course.

You may like the way the portrait looks after changing. If not, easy to go back.

::::: Opera :::::

Yes the blinn. Will do. Thanx!

The specular is a little weak compared to your original pics (possibly hard to fix depending on your shader setup but worth a look).  The lighting is pretty full in the face also, as others have pointed out; imo you will get nicer looking results if you move the light somewhere else, pretty much ANYWHERE else than where you have it right now.

Thank you for that information Cath :)

Is there a simple way to explain blinn and phong and those other nodes to a lay person. Is there no "real life" analogy for effects like blinn, are they purely mathematical constructs? I feel bad I have never used the more unusual nodes, not even skin or clay.

OG---forgot about the fisheye lense. Thanks for the reminder. I'll definately take it! :)

Opera guy good point!  
SSAfam1, you can move the light as pjz99 said.. but you can also add extra little point light at 25-50% intensity without shadow and get the specular even more cool, the specular works always better with spot or point light as with the infinite light.. that is more diffuse, and the rendering setting quality dramatic change the specular effect too, how lower the rendering setting how bigger the specular area and vice verse .
Cath

Ok guys I'll do all suggested and post results.

All the feedback is very much appreciated. Renderosity peeps rock! :)

@ momodot, blinn and phong in real life ? yes blinn can be compared mostly to the human skin specular effect mostly on the big body parts good visible when the light hit from the sides, and phong mostly show up on the metal ..anisotropic can be compared to a specular showing on a black latex or shiny plastic , all the digital specular shader nodes are nothing else as a digital fake reflections of the light, you can create the same and more realistic effect when you use reflect node on the surface, it will create very realistic specular effect as it do in the real world.. the begining of the 3d world was so poor technicaly that why they created the effect to get closer to the reality but today we use it to spare the rendering time..in some cases
Cath

I ate a dubious cheese blinn for brunch today and was on the phong to my doctor within the hour.

:: og ::

LOL you better start to practice phong thuy ::OG:: lol,  better as doctor

Cath, will your probes work in Carrara?

yes if Carrara use LightProbes Angular Maps, check out if Carrara support OpenEXR HDR format, the Megapack1 have universal hdr lightprobes in openEXR format used by ILM and the best hdr format all times... *hdr is a past... however if not I can always convert for you..
Let me know
Cath

Attached Link: openEXR Photoshop Plugin

here is Photoshop OpenEXR plugin, download unzip and paste into your Photoshop Plug-ins under Import-Export, works with Photoshop 5.5, 7 and above also with Photoshop Elements6.. ths way you can view or edit your files in openEXR format that is one of the best hdr formats to date.. or convert from that to the format you like... Poser7 support OpenEXR, I am testing today textures in this format looks great Cath

Okay...

-moved the lights.
-added a point light with shadows off. Intensity 38
-moved her away from the camera some and focal 78mm
-Blinn settings of (.5)(.1)(1)

Before and after:

Absolutely love the soft tone. And her neck IS supposed to be a little darker. When you wear foundation, you find the tone closest to your own, but it's always a little lighter.

Check this out. The MIDDLE photo was rendered. Next duplicated the original. Did a one step photo fix and played with the properites, then merged them together. I like her glow, but she is a little lighter than what I wanted. Still pretty cool though.

CLICK TO ENLARGE:

P.S. Lip texturing is the bane of my existence!

does not look good for .exr, Cath, in Carrara. I just rendered a few scenes with .hdr, looks fine.

When you attempt to import a file onto the HDRI 'background' in Carrara, it only allows .hdr file extension. I changed the extension on a .exr file I had (Ennis House) and it loaded, but did not compute at all, either for background image or lighting.

LOL!

I just tried to purchase your megapac, I want them in .exr for Poser anyway...when I got to checkout, it asked me "credit card" or "paypal" but only gave me one radio button! I wanted CC, so I continued, but it took me to Paypal checkout in Nederland and it's all Dutch to me!

Please advise.

::::::: Opera :::::

Hurray for post processing!

Looking good!

:: og ::