At another site that has a name like a UK soap powder product... which sells 3D models for use in 2 main 3D model manipulation programs... neither of which are sold or given for free at this site a new product has the following:

**Required Products
This product requires a product not sold here. See the Notes for details

**The product in question being a computer art program sold by a company that sounds like a sun-dried, unburned brick of clay and straw.

What next?

**Product Requirements
One of several 3D model manipulation or art programs
Rectangular box filled with electronic components
The more male sheep sounding components the better
Pointing device that sounds like a rodent

Operating system
One from a company that sounds very very small and squishy or another one that sounds like a round crisp fruit**

Eyup Ziggie.  Long time no see.  How are you keeping?

BTW, the "product requirements" are also known as "covering your ass".  Put it this way, if they didn't state you needed to have some other sofrware, they'd have customers asking for refunds all over the place. 

I see what you mean, though; It's kinda like a conversation I had with an annoyed customer back when I used to work in a call centre...

Customer: "This printer I just bought doesn't have a cable with it."

Me: "OK, does the box say it comes with a cable?"

Customer: "No but it doesn't say it doesn't come with a cable and that's misleading."

Me: "Nope.  The law requires we state what you get, not what you don't get.  It's only misleading if we say it has something that isn't there."

Customer: "That's bloody ridiculous."

Me: "Not really.  We'd have a list of things stretching to the moon and back if we had to state what isn't in the box.  For example, it doesn't say anywhere on the box that it doesn't come with an elephant, does it?"

I'm glad they've done that actually as I was tempted to part with cash for it until I realised I couldn't make any use of it if I did.

The point I was getting at was that if they can mention the product required in the notes... then why not in the main page... why the evasion/mystery? It just seems to tie in with the recent spate of sites not wanting to make any mention of or advertisement of other sites products.

Why not just state:

**Required Products
This product requires Adobe Photoshop CS or above
**
Would save people having to wade throuh the notes if nothing else.

There's a difference between a printer coming with a cable or an elephant.

Since it's common for printers to come with cables, one would expect the box copy to mention the exception that the printer doesn't come with the necessary cables.

Quote - There's a difference between a printer coming with a cable or an elephant.

Since it's common for printers to come with cables, one would expect the box copy to mention the exception that the printer doesn't come with the necessary cables.

Erm, nope.  UK retail law says you must state what's included.  So, by implication, if it ain't stated, it ain't included.

And besides - I swear this is true - the next day we had a call from a guy who had a lizard in his printer box.  The guy who took the call (I really, really wish it had been me) said, "Ah, good to know you found your free gift, then."

im still waiting for the "User must also be living" to be added to the list

Quote - The point I was getting at was that if they can mention the product required in the notes... then why not in the main page... why the evasion/mystery? It just seems to tie in with the recent spate of sites not wanting to make any mention of or advertisement of other sites products.

Why not just state:

**Required Products
This product requires Adobe Photoshop CS or above
**
Would save people having to wade throuh the notes if nothing else.

Well, it's really not that evasive, when you consider that any product they sell that requires something from "off site" is described that same way, and you have to go into the "requirements" section of the page to find out what it is.

If nothing else, at least they're being marginally consistent. :-)

I looked at it, BTW, as well as the "waves" tool from the same person over at Artzone, and I was somewhat tempted because they'd have use outside of Poser postwork.

Sam - I don't know how you had the patience to work in a call centre. Jeez, I wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes.

I've got to say though, printers coming without cables is rediculous. My friend bought one a few months ago but she didn't realise until it arrived that there wasn't a lead for it. I went & got one for her.
Surely it can't be just to get more money off you.

Reminds me of the days when you'd buy an appliance without a plug. What the $&$!

The main reason there are very few printers supplied with cables is because as yet there ain't a standard for connecting them.  USB is popular but not universally used. 

As for making more money from people, the printer manufacturers don't seem to be bothered about it, since they are rarely the ones who actually make the cables anyhow.  The retailers look on it as more of a pain in the arse than anything.  Certainly places like Pee See Whirled would rather sell you a big high ticket box than a five quid cable.

As for my patience, well, it's not infinite but I believe in being professional about my work, whatever it is at the time.  That said, I did have a rep for not taking any shit.  OTOH, I also had a rep for getting the job done, so callers usually trusted me.

Up until about a year ago I worked in a call center, on the night shift.  One night I took a call, a woman's voice asked, "Hi, may I speak to Soand So please?"

"I'm sorry ma'am, we don't have anyone here by that name.  Do you know where he'd be, maybe I can look him up?"

"Oh, well, I (pause) I thought he was an inmate there."

(raising my voice a bit so my co-workers could hear me) "I see!  Ma'am, you've reached Hewlett-Packard, and while it has many things in common with a prison or mental institution, I think you may have reached us in error."

"I'm terribly sorry, I'm so embarassed!"

"Don't worry about it ma'am, a lot of people make that mistake."

I quit shortly afterward.

Ehh, it wasn't the worst job I've done.  SIttng in a nice office talking to people all day ain't work.

I worked 7 years in a foundry.  Now, that's work.  Hot, heavy, dangerous hard work and boy did I ever hate every single minute of it.  It did, however, keep me fit.

My printer came with an elephant. Noisy big beast he was too. Lucky we have a big garden as he was only a baby when he arrived but he soon grew too big for our house. Ziggie, hwne he mentioned a site sounding like a soap powder, my first thought was turbosquid. Until I remembered seeing that product at DAZ (oops I said it), yesterday. Nice to have you back. Where have you been? Hopefully not at HP? Love esther

I want an elephant with my printer, forthwith!

Maybe I should call Hewlett-Packard?

If HP can't supply the elephant, will you settle for a trunk cable?  {insert GROAN here}

What gets me about printers is that it is cheaper to buy a new printer now than it is to buy a full set of ink cartridges for most printers..... WTF is up with that?

The only exception to that that I am aware of is the new Kodak printers where you can get a full set of replacement cartridges for about 30 bucks and the printer is around 100 for the low end model (friend has one says they're great)

A printer mechanism is a pretty simple thing, hence the low price.  Cartridges - particularly HP - tend to be fiddly things with lots of interesting tiny components.  That, and they like to stitch you up when you buy the refills.

I buy the refills you do yourself these days. They last for freaking EVER, I'm tellin ya.

Hey Sam, I know what you mean about the foundry. I used to work in a factory next door to one & I saw how hard the work was in there. Just walking through the place the heat was enough for me!

Quote - Customer: "This printer I just bought doesn't have a cable with it."

Me: "OK, does the box say it comes with a cable?"

Customer: "No but it doesn't say it doesn't come with a cable and that's misleading."

Me: "Nope.  The law requires we state what you get, not what you don't get.  It's only misleading if we say it has something that isn't there."

Customer: "That's bloody ridiculous."

I used to work for Lexmark... so I know exactly what you mean with that description. :)

I've been on the other side of tech support calls -- 1.5 hour waits listening to elevator music over the phone is about enough to make anyone a little insane.  And then the tech rep either starts the call by assuming that you are a dummy, and that you don't know where to find the power switch on your PC -- or you might discover that the tech rep has a certain set-in-stone one-size-fits-all procedure that they're supposed to follow to-the-letter, with no give or deviating from their strict set of predefined points.

And you might also quickly discover that you know far more about PC's than the tech rep does.....including in regards to their own product.

Sure, stupid customers call in sometimes.  But I'd say that the scales are balanced on that score.

The good news is, if your printer comes with an elephant, elephants now have the "make art" function: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGEJKQzaMA

but i have the truncated version!

quote- At another site that has a name like a UK soap powder product... which sells 3D models i thought he meant turbosquid u throw the squid inro your washing machine and off it goes. It even gets the washing out after and hangs it on the line. (that's the slowpart as it has to put on all it's shoes (which don't come with it) love esther

Quote - The point I was getting at was that if they can mention the product required in the notes... then why not in the main page... why the evasion/mystery? It just seems to tie in with the recent spate of sites not wanting to make any mention of or advertisement of other sites products.

Why not just state:

**Required Products
This product requires Adobe Photoshop CS or above
**
Would save people having to wade throuh the notes if nothing else.

That would be the reasonable way to do it, for the brushes. They also have, at Artzone, a couple of texture packs for clothes sold elsewhere (RMP, I think.) Since normally DAZ is pretty good about having an actual link to the base set on the product page, they figured that they needed something to tell people it wasn't a DAZ/Artzone stand-alone.

Quote - Up until about a year ago I worked in a call center, on the night shift.  One night I took a call, a woman's voice asked, "Hi, may I speak to Soand So please?"

"I'm sorry ma'am, we don't have anyone here by that name.  Do you know where he'd be, maybe I can look him up?"

"Oh, well, I (pause) I thought he was an inmate there."

(raising my voice a bit so my co-workers could hear me) "I see!  Ma'am, you've reached Hewlett-Packard, and while it has many things in common with a prison or mental institution, I think you may have reached us in error."

"I'm terribly sorry, I'm so embarassed!"

"Don't worry about it ma'am, a lot of people make that mistake."

I quit shortly afterward.

Sound allot like when I worked at Gateway's Tech support/Sales

Every word of that story is true, including the quitting part (thank god I finally left).