"but try and find gaming software for it" a friend of mine once said "i dont burn my computer's time with games, thats what consoles are for..."

Quote - "but try and find gaming software for it" a friend of mine once said "i dont burn my computer's time with games, thats what consoles are for..."

PC gaming is so much more expensive than console gaming. Factor $300+ OS/firewall/av plus $1000+ computer plus $50 games.

I've got a lot of DOS and Windows 98 games that are completely useless right now. I can still however play my PS1 games on my PS3. :biggrin:

LOL...I used to say that. Until WOW sucked me into its clutches for 2 years. It took becoming a Rendo merchant to tear me away. I never even WAS a gamer until WOW. Somehow I ended up running a large raiding guild before I knew it and actually understood all the slang my kid was using. Family fun for all was had, but scary at my age! You're not living til you kill monsters with your whole family every Friday night!

you can see from my avatar im a FFXI fan ^ ^

Quote -  Yeah i hear you, it probably would have helped the housing industry ride through this recession if the US government wouldn't have slapped a 35% tarrif on Canadian lumber imports, new homes would have stayed cheaper and people could still afford to buy.

Got to love the big business lobby groups, hurt everyone else so that they can profit.

Ron

err, as someone who lives in Oregon, I don't see how dropping the tarriff on imported lumber would've helped any. Logging jobs are not in demand in my region due to decreased demand for new home construction - how would a flood of (only slightly) less expensive un-tarriffed lumber from up North help when there's no demand for the stuff? The mortgage crunch came from financial mismanagement at the corporate level (interest-only loans? WTF!?) and a crash of the wild property speculation that swept a lot of the US... not due to material costs. Trust me - most of the cost increase of a new home came from the dirt it sat on, not the building that got lashed together on top of it. I saw the asking price of even old homes in certain parts of Salt Lake City (e.g. Sugarhouse) rocket up from $140k to $350k (and often more) in the space of three years. Even free lumber wouldn't have stopped that one.

/P

Quote - LOL...I used to say that. Until WOW sucked me into its clutches for 2 years. It took becoming a Rendo merchant to tear me away. I never even WAS a gamer until WOW. Somehow I ended up running a large raiding guild before I knew it and actually understood all the slang my kid was using. Family fun for all was had, but scary at my age! You're not living til you kill monsters with your whole family every Friday night!

Heh - I used to be the biggest, baddest, ugliest mofo that Quake 1,2,and 3 ever saw. Then Unreal Tournament snatched me in. I finally shook the First-Person-Shooter habit once and for all in 2002. I blew something like 9 years of spare moments (mostly when the ex wife was working nights) in front of a computer, not a console.

Now, I do 3d artwork with the thing once in awhile. :)

/P

Apple has made this Mac VS PC debate MOOT!!

My intel duo core macbook is a PC!! and a very nice one at that
and it came with a clearly superior OS pre installed called OSX
NO offense but only poser /DAZ content users are afraid if OSX anymore.
"God Forbid  my lace garters & Panties set for "Aiko" not insta lproperly on some mac  I might be using"

we can debate about hardware cost all day but in the end it the
OS itself that counts
and the modern MACs run Both... Potential Virtual Lace panty problem ....SOLVED!!!

In general, if you factor in the cost of similar hardware, a windows box isn't much cheaper-sometimes it's actually more expensive. The real problem with pricing is that the lower priced macs use laptop components in order to remain so tiny. These components are simply more expensive. So, there is no budget mac.

However, those imacs come with a VERY nice monitor, and really are well designed. So, while you could pay 699 for a junky PC machine whose fans will burn out within the first year and a half, you could plunk down 1000 for a Mac that probably performs similarly and get a much nicer monitor (assuming that the discount PC even comes with a monitor).

As for percentage of users, those numbers you hear are the numbers of computers sold in a given year. When you factor in the fact that businesses are counted in that number, those numbers are completely irrelevant when it comes to home machines. Many of the machines that are sold as windows machines end up in some closet serving filesystems or running a webserver or something. Certainly not potential candidates for entertainment software regardless if windows remains on the machine or not (and the same is true if it actually sits on an employee's desk)

It would be interesting to know the percentage of Poser sales for Mac/Windows.

Quote -  The mortgage crunch came from financial mismanagement at the corporate level (interest-only loans? WTF!?) and a crash of the wild property speculation that swept a lot of the US... not due to material costs.

Yeppers. Not only that but giving loans to people whom can't possibly afford to pay them back. The loans with NO and EZ qualifiers based on house equity, and insufficient income to make the payment, in order to inflate the loan sales and home sales.

And now people like me whom had a decent job and don't over extend themselves and didn't make a load of bucks in loan speculations are in jeopardy of being foreclosed on as well....

As much as I HATE government interefrence, someone ought to regulate home building industry more, so the peaks and valleys aren't as severe. Few yers you barely have any life for yourself, cause you;re pushed into working crasy hours (on salary, and frequently no bonuses or overtime), then when things slow down... nice knowing you.  Few people make good money, but majority of the employees don't get much in a way of opportunity to save for a rainy day.

BAH!

The worst part of this sub-prime thing, is that the people who really are responsible will probably be the ones who get bailed out as a desperate move by the government to avoid the potential disasters should they be allowed to collapse through evolution (you make egregious business decisions, you lose your business). IMHO, the top folk at all affected banks need never see another pay check. They clearly weren't using good financial sense allowing such things to happen below on their watch.

Quote - The worst part of this sub-prime thing, is that the people who really are responsible will probably be the ones who get bailed out as a desperate move by the government to avoid the potential disasters should they be allowed to collapse through evolution (you make egregious business decisions, you lose your business). IMHO, the top folk at all affected banks need never see another pay check. They clearly weren't using good financial sense allowing such things to happen below on their watch.

Exactly!!!!
I think instead of bailing them out, out government should invest the money in capital projects and improvements. That'll allow honest people to keep working, public good will be served with improved infrastructure, and those whom caused the debacle, let those whom screwed it up fry, instead of people like me.
They make a bed business decision, I get to lose my house. Good grief!

I don't even know where else to look for another job. There's about  300 engineering companies in southern california, and I pretty much know all of them. Over the last moth I contacted every single one I could think of, and everyone is in the same boat, instead of hiting they're layong off people.
Most of the collagues I keep in touch with, and whom could always tell me whom is doing what have either been laid off themselves, or are shaking in their chair worrying if they are next.

The company where I worked went from 160 to 20 employees in the last year! We closed the department I was running, cause for the rest of the year they don't forsee needing the service.

I know, I hijacked th thread and I'm grumbling, I'm in a grumbly kind of a mood. Just paid bills for this month. Two to go before things start going unpaid. I hope I find something by then. Sorry... it's eating me up because I'm at the end of my witts where else to look.

Dunno... I just saw a huge wave of layoffs happen at work (the corp is doing fine, but the IT dep't was a bit over-bloated now that we're shifting gears from All-Windows to a mix of Windows and Linux, and don't need so many folks to run things. So... a lot of Windows-only folks got the pink slips). OTOH, not only did the area absorb 'em, but companies and local employers in the area are still looking for more.

I think the jobs situation is more hit-or-miss than anything else. California got it hard (both in private sectors because of the harder mortgage crashes, and in public sectors because a whole lot of big expenses are coming due). Oregon escaped pretty well (most of the really large local employers - Intel, Nike, etc - recently reported record quarters. Also, the area is still vibrant and alive, since it never really saw the massive speculations that other areas have).

/P

The trouble with my area right now is that every shingle home builder that I know of, people like Lennar, Shea, Standard Pacific home and about couple of a dozen others, whom give about 80% of the work to local Civil Engineers have stopped building till things sort themselves out. Most of them untill late 2009 or 2010 or so.  Many companies have contracts (including myself) have signed contracts whose kickoff date got pushed back by a year or two.
Almost noone is buying new homes when the market is flooded with near-new foreclosures. Home builders have dropped their prices by 40% to try and attract customers.
This is first hand information, from  the building industry association meetings, which I'm a member of.

There's a major freeway that is supposed to get built, but at the moment the tree huggers are trying to put the stop to it because it'll be too close to couple of the beaches, so they're freaking out it'll ruin them. They voted down a larger commercially capable airport in this county, in favor of more housing developments.

California department of transportation, where I could always get a job, right now has a freeze on hirings anmd spending on projects, because California is amid state budget crisis.

Military isn't doing any local building either.

Many local municipalities and districts seem to be afraid to spend money on major improvements without a developer and a housing block coming in to foor the bill.

During the last recession, Cell phone companies were installing a lot of new cell towers, this was just before they were launching digital networks, so some of us stayed afloat doing building plans for that. There was also a lot of earthquake retrofitting by the state, after the northridge earthquake, and couple new freeways were built, and local flood control channels were brought up to current recommendations.

The only place I hear of doing something right now is Edison. I'm researching what's going on over there in hopes they may need some of my services.

Anyway, I and many other engineers and companies are hoping something starts moving along soon.  I was looking through various websites about what kind of work is out there. Software engineers, IT people, pipeline engineers, mechanical engineers and administrative assistants.
Civil Engineers, Structural Engineers, Land Surveyors, Architects, or any related technicall staff, almost nothing in California. I see a few still needed up in the bay area, nothing around here.

Last year this time when things were starting to slow down, I was still being hit up by others looking for people to see if I'd be interested, or if I know anyone, or getting calls from headhunters. Right now you call a headhunter, and they tell you sorry, we can't place you, and some of the headhunters I know changed their services offering 'assistance top job seekers', like resume writing services and meyers briggs personality tests etc.  It's kind of funny to try and offer that to professionals, most of us did that junk in college.

There's a major freeway that is supposed to get built, but at the moment the tree huggers are trying to put the stop to it because it'll be too close to couple of the beaches, so they're freaking out it'll ruin them.

... which it probably will, and frankly I'm getting tired of us trashing the entire planet just for the sake of jobs. Right now, Bush wants to drill all over Northern Alaska, in federally set-aside protective areas. Sorry, but no. We had a gas crisis back in the 1970s. That's almost forty years ago, plenty of time, IMHO, to get our freaking act together and get off oil. But we chose not to because we were too lazy and no one wanted to invest in the technologies, and now we're so desperate for the stuff that we'll drill anywhere and send our troops everywhere else to get it. That doesnt sound like anything but addiction, pure and simple. The fisheries stock in the Northern Atlantic is almost completely depleted, but God forbid you tell the fishermen of Nova Scotia to think about doing something else for a few years while the fish have a chance to multiply a bit.

So pardon me if I seem a little unfeeling towards so-called progress, but another freeway just so people can get from A to B a little faster isnt going to solve anything long-term. It's a band-aid, nothing more. Once it's done, folks'll need something else, not because it's really necessary, but because they need work -- and that's not much of an excuse in my books. And when I look at all the things that have been ruined in the name of such stop-gap projects... well, sorry, but there's a tree outside that looks like it needs a nice hug.

Quote - >> There's a major freeway that is supposed to get built, but at the moment the tree huggers are trying to put the stop to it because it'll be too close to couple of the beaches, so they're freaking out it'll ruin them.

... which it probably will, and frankly I'm getting tired of us trashing the entire planet just for the sake of jobs.

It's easy to have an attitude of 'suck it up, chump!' when you still have an income and only yourself to worry about. It's not so easy when there's no money coming in, you have kids to keep fed/clothed/warm, the bill collectors keep calling, etc. Oh, and your state government's broke, so the whole 'safety net' concept is kinda shaky as well.

Yeah, sure - California dug themselves into this hole - between a state legislature that spent itself silly, to residents who did the same just to buy a $750k house that wouldn't be worth $50k in most other parts of the nation. OTOH, that doesn't mean you simply let out a big 'harrumph!' and start preaching at 'em.

The whole oil thing? Yeah, we know. OPEC (finally) decided to get jiggy with the profit-taking, and it really shows. Personally, it's the impetus we sorely needed to get going with alternate energies. I'm glad as hell that I bought a fuel-efficient car last year, and that I live near light rail.

OTOH, before you start proclaiming Oil to be The Devil Drug, do realize that alternate energies are gonna eat some serious resources as well, and they will have their own impacts. Wind and solar farms are going to require a LOT of land. Nuclear reactors still have that problematic waste thing to deal with. More agriculture for biofuel means less agriculture to feed people, or more land getting plowed under to grow it all. Hybrid/electric cars contain batteries, which in turn are built from some really noxious chemicals.

Unless we find a cheap way of getting the population off of this planet, this planet is going to have to suffer under the weight of that population. The only other alternative is to start killing, or to jump onto a mass sterilization program... good luck with the latter one.

/P

So just using the entire freaking planet is the answer? Sorry, dont think so. Stuff is here for a reason, as we all found out when the Old Growth forest in the Pacific Northwest and the Amazon rain forest started disappearing at a more than frightful rate. And at the rate we're killing off wildlife species, chances are real good that those children you talk about wont even know what somethng as simple as a bear looks like outside the stuffed ones in the museums or the heads on the country club walls.

Yeah, we've done a great job of screwing the pooch when it comes to this mudball, and I honestly dont understand how, given that clear and obvious fact, we can even think of justifying doing it some more just so people can get somewhere faster. There are other ways to take those skills and make a living that dont beat the crap even more out of the environment than it's already had to take in the name of "progress". My own field is doing some serious work in the line of "green" sourcing, since so much of what we use is temporary at best: our shop at Godfrey is running at about 85% recycling and recyclable, and the displays we send out are close to 90% recyclable materials... which I would posit is a helluva lot better than most fields. Yeah, it aint been easy, but given the alternatives it's about the only real solution left us.

before you start proclaiming Oil to be The Devil Drug,*

Too late, bubba. It is, and we all know it. Wind may take a lot of land, but at least it's renewable. Solar? We havent even scratched the surface of what's possible there. Nuclear? The French went almost completely nuclear for their power needs, and they seem to have figured out how to make it work. But amazing how, in four decades, we can have wonders like cel phones and the internet and superfast computers and really great microwave popcorn... and still use automobile technology from a century ago with no real change in sight.

Meanwhile, in the middle of the Pacific, there's something about the size of a small island floating around. Care to guess what it is? Eh, what the heck, I'll tell you: it's plastic. Tons and tons of plastic: bottles, boxes, all other manner of "disposables" that have now coagulated into their own little mini-nation. Too much for us to even think about doing anything with, BTW.

But hey, it's out there in the Pacific. Not our problem, right?

Quote - >> There's a major freeway that is supposed to get built, but at the moment the tree huggers are trying to put the stop to it because it'll be too close to couple of the beaches, so they're freaking out it'll ruin them.

... which it probably will, and frankly I'm getting tired of us trashing the entire planet just for the sake of jobs. Right now, Bush wants to drill all over Northern Alaska, in federally set-aside protective areas. Sorry, but no. We had a gas crisis back in the 1970s. That's almost forty years ago, plenty of time, IMHO, to get our freaking act together and get off oil. But we chose not to because we were too lazy and no one wanted to invest in the technologies, and now we're so desperate for the stuff that we'll drill anywhere and send our troops everywhere else to get it. That doesnt sound like anything but addiction, pure and simple. The fisheries stock in the Northern Atlantic is almost completely depleted, but God forbid you tell the fishermen of Nova Scotia to think about doing something else for a few years while the fish have a chance to multiply a bit.

So pardon me if I seem a little unfeeling towards so-called progress, but another freeway just so people can get from A to B a little faster isnt going to solve anything long-term. It's a band-aid, nothing more. Once it's done, folks'll need something else, not because it's really necessary, but because they need work -- and that's not much of an excuse in my books. And when I look at all the things that have been ruined in the name of such stop-gap projects... well, sorry, but there's a tree outside that looks like it needs a nice hug.

Actually, I do environmental work too, see that falls under the umbrella of the Engineering and Sciences that I mentioned earlier, and would love to do it.  Engineering and Architecture is not all about destroying things. We are quite capable of creating many eco-friendly solutions. But, that kind of work is more expensive and in almost zero demand. Things like solar powered houses, alternative fuels, low polutants and low waste products and packaging, downtown housing that allows people to walk to work and live without cars, mass transportation etc. People like me have the know-how, and are willing to make it happen, but there's no buyers.

Heck, just last decade our local engineering association has been fighting tooth and nail to keep an educational campaign about 'no dumping to ocean' alive, trying to educate general public that whatever you dump into your back yard or a local gutter - thing like plastic bags, cigarette butts, car and lawn chemicals all end up in the ocean (where your kids surf, or where dolphins get tangled in damn plastic bags) etc.

Till people like you are willing to pay the double or triple the price for eco-friendly solutions, there won't be demand for them. You can whine about it all you want, but the reality is that most of the ME oriented population is not ready to give up their comforts and pay the price.

This is just the problem with ignorant tree huggers, you're utterly clueless about how things work, and in most cases bark up the wrong tree, and cast their voice in some nebulous emotional reactions that have nothing to do with reality. Unfortunately, they get a vote too. So ignorant as a matter of fact that you don't have a slightest clue that you're preaching to the choir here.

Sean, hon, Engineers and Architects aren't the bad guys. We'renot the decision makers. Our hands are tied to building and creating things (usually of pretty archaic technology) that general public is willing to pay for and that local governments are 'comfortable with - which is the same ole technology of 30 years ago. Newer and better and eco friendlier things, noone wants because they cost a lot more to make. We can build you, actually would love to build you no garbage self sustaining house. You and 90% of the population can't afford it, and isn't willing to give up their conveniences.

Quote - Meanwhile, in the middle of the Pacific, there's something about the size of a small island floating around. Care to guess what it is? Eh, what the heck, I'll tell you: it's plastic. Tons and tons of plastic: bottles, boxes, all other manner of "disposables" that have now coagulated into their own little mini-nation. Too much for us to even think about doing anything with, BTW.

But hey, it's out there in the Pacific. Not our problem, right?

And you're so briliantly knowledgeable that you're attacking people like me whom are actually active in 'DOING THINGS' trying to stop it.
Invloved in things like this public campaign: http://www.ocwatersheds.com/PublicEducation/pe_magnet_drains2ocean.asp
And local surfrider foundation.

So, sean, do you bring your own bags to the grocery store, for example? Because Eco friendly solution is Not Plastic or Paper, buy reusable resources!
Do you stigmatize shoplifters? So we can get rid of all the oversized and multi-layer packaging in the stores?
Do you choose to walk when you don't have to drive? Do you ride a bike or choose to take public transportation? Do you conserve water? Do you prepare your food from scratc, or buy over-processed prepackaged items where you get more packaging then actual food?  Do drink bottled water and discard the bottles, or did you install water purifying system in your house to minimize packaging and cost of distribution? Did you install solar panels on your house, so we dont have to burn even more oil and coal to provide you with electricity and other utilities? Do you live, work and drive in non-air conditioned places? What comforts of modern life have you given up in order to live more eco friendly? Do you ever put your money and actions where your mouth is?   :rolleyes:

I doubt that you do much, because you don't appear very knowledgeable about it. Not past your silly platitudes about the rainforest and the island of plastic.

Quote - So just using the entire freaking planet is the answer?

Nope - just basic human nature.

Quote - There are other ways to take those skills and make a living that dont beat the crap even more out of the environment than it's already had to take in the name of "progress".

So who said anything about doing that? What I am saying is that there is a vast difference between preaching from a position of comfort, and being forced to live that sermon from a position of deprivation.

You and I can adapt easily enough - my power bill is 2x the average because the missus and I chose to get all our juice from renewable sources only (PGE, Oregon's local power corp, gives you that option). My old 15 MPG Jeep hasn't moved six nanometers in six months, while I instead commute to work via light rail, and drive otherwise in a used but serviceable 35 MPG Pontiac Sunfire.

Great, awesome, cool, whatever...  Now how do you propose that the impoverished deal with rising food prices? How do you tell a poor family with a straight face that they just have to suck it up because we think that if we don't do things strictly by the manifestos of every alarmist alive, we're all gonna go under? How do you tell an old woman that no, she doesn't need to run an air conditioner just because the thermometer hovers at around 105 degrees Fahrenheit.

In other words, how do you tell the starving and deprived in this and other nations that they're just going to have to deal with The Green New World Order?

It ain't just deprivation, either. How do you propose to reconcile against the tree-hugging crowd that will scream bloody murder if a nuclear waste disposal plant is proposed anywhere within 1,000 miles of their town? How do you ameliorate the complaints and demands of the hoi-polloi (even of the liberal political stripe) demanding that no new wind farms be built anywhere near eye-shot of their beach-front homes and etc? Natural Gas is cleaner and more plentiful (and cheaper!) than crude oil, yet propose to build a dock or extraction field anywhere, and everyone nearby goes apeshit with protest.

...and don't get me started with water. While folks in the East don't really give it much thought, here Out West you'll find near-murder at the arguments and debates over water rights.

Quote - My own field is doing some serious work in the line of "green" sourcing, since so much of what we use is temporary at best: our shop at Godfrey is running at about 85% recycling and recyclable, and the displays we send out are close to 90% recyclable materials... which I would posit is a helluva lot better than most fields. Yeah, it aint been easy, but given the alternatives it's about the only real solution left us.

well that's great! Now assuming that the effort wasn't just the result of paper-shuffling, PR, and creative accounting, what's it gonna cost the masses to partake of the products made there?

*> Quote - Wind may take a lot of land, but at least it's renewable.

Not really... generators and impeller blades don't build themselves. We can't simply crap out more land. Same with Solar... efficiencies are crap under this atmospheric blanket, and again, the land thing... where do you propose we get some of that without spending a mint?

Quote - But amazing how, in four decades, we can have wonders like cel phones and the internet and superfast computers and really great microwave popcorn... and still use automobile technology from a century ago with no real change in sight.

That seems to be changing - too bad it costs a fortune to buy the new ones. I just can't quite see a blue-collar family running out to grab a Prius... not because of not wanting one, but because they cost an arm and a leg (and we haven't even touched on what it's gonna cost to replace those batteries when they eventually fail).

Quote - Meanwhile, in the middle of the Pacific, there's something about the size of a small island floating around.

...and? What does that have to do with solving the socioeconomic problems that will come with shifting to more sustainable lifestyles and methods? A family in India that can barely afford to buy enough rice to live off of isn't going to really give a damn about what's happening halfway across the planet, you know? In other words, forget the hand-waving and finger-pointing, and start working on solutions that, you know... work.

/P

Most of us can see the need for environment-friendly construction.
Most of us don't want to pay the price, however.

On the other hand, not all environment-friendly construction methods HAVE to be extremely expensive. You just have to be creative.

For example, wind generators. Who said they had to be built on land? Coastal waters, just over the horizon, will work just as well. Just be careful not to plant them right in the middle of a shipping lane.

Another example: bio fuels. They've caused corn prices to rise, which means basic food prices are higher than ever. This affects everyone.
A better solution would be bio fuels based on non-food materials. And there's progress in this field too, in the Netherlands we have an experimental algae farm that produces an awesome amount of fermentable biomass per square meter. Another experimental setup is generating methane from cow manure - there's a couple of farms in the Netherlands that produce all the methane they need, even driving their tractors on it, and still have some excess to sell. There's a few quality control issues to solve yet, but the national energy company expects that methane from cow manure can be used nationwide within a couple of years.
The byproduct of cow manure methane is good quality fertilizer. No waste!

Replacing plastic packaging of goods by recyclable/recycled paper - why not? I've already seen it at work: some companies use crumpled paper for shock absorbers in their packaging instead of styrofoam.
It isn't that hard to do. It might be a little bit more expensive than plastic, but with the current oil prices I expect that plastic will be getting more expensive too.

Biggest problem of them all is that any solution to these questions - work, money, environment, energy - requires intelligent decision makers with a broad view. And as far as I know, decision makers compensate their almost universal lack of intelligence with greed and hunger for power.

For example, wind generators. Who said they had to be built on land? Coastal waters, just over the horizon, will work just as well. Just be careful not to plant them right in the middle of a shipping lane.

Down here, we have a pretty large area, in Palm Springs, where the whole related urban area is powered by wind energy. Unfortunately, it's much more expensive and not as reliable as your usual run of the mill electricity. So, what happens is prices go up, there's land and housing shortage because development can't proceed untill they are guaranteed utilities. Again, that drive up the prices.

*Biggest problem of them all is that any solution to these questions - work, money, environment, energy - requires intelligent decision makers with a broad view. And as far as I know, decision makers compensate their almost universal lack of intelligence with greed and hunger for power.

*I can't begin to speculate how to pull it off, but some sort of better regulation seems to be needed. For one, to stabilize the constuction highs an lows. Average 'job longevity' in construction, in this are is around 2 years.  The builders tend to rush rush rush, build build build as quickly as they can while there's money to be made. Then when they flood the market with their product, it all goes in a hiatus for a few years till it all levels off. It's business 101, consequences of aggressive growth.
I doubt they will ever learn, the ways of running business this way has been the acheele'sheel of housing constructions since world war 2. Every 10 years, they trip over themselves and things go into a recession.

I remember about three years ago, in one of the local building industry meetings, there was this bigwig from one of the local universities (like UCLA or sumpthin) offering MBA's, giving us a dinner speech about how the home builders and land developers have gotten wiser and learned to read and plan their markets better, and will aboid the recession of early 90's. Guess what, this time around it's worse!!!!! Dim shits chasing the buck like dogs after a slobered up tennis ball.

And since the business isn't self regulating, and there's no big brother regulating, it becomes a cutthroat situation. If one or two home builders try to act responsibly, there's still going to be another 30 making a mess of things. They take their profits and pull up the anchor when things slow down, and leave the carnige behind them. This time teaming up with lenders. And the american public, well, they're chasing that proverbial american dream about as badly as the home builders are chasing profits.
The dream of owning a house... WTF? You don't own it, and can't possibly own it for 30 years. The damn bank owns it. It's harder to walk away from it and relocate if and when you need it. Most people don't own things free and clear, and most likely never will. With all the associations and regulations, there isn't that much more comfort then renting. It's the great american illusion.

>> Till people like you are willing to pay the double or triple the price for eco-friendly solutions, there won't be demand for them.

And I do. So, yeah, I'm doing my part to keep it all to as much of a dull roar as possible. And yeah, it's sticking a pinky finger in a leaky dam... but at least it's goddam something.

But if you think I'm attacking you personally, move on, because there's nothing to see here. Yes, I realize it's going to take a major shift in our priorities to actually get something done, but folks like Tom are the ones you oughta be preaching at, not me. Those are the people who will look for any excuse not to change -- "it's too expensive! I need a job! It's all a bunch of tree-huggers anyway!"

Sorry, but that's bullshit. If we havent learned anything about climate change and our own impact on it in the last few years, then what the heck, let's collectively throw in the towel and be done with it, because we're gonna conitnue to turn a blind eye to a problem that's only get worse and worse the more we screw around.

And if you consider that whining, that's your issue, not mine. They murdered Cassandra, remember. Didnt change anything there either.

So yeah, suck it up. Life's tough. A lot of people dont have jobs. My own company may fall within the next year, but I'm making my own plans just in case that does happen. It doesnt take a degree in either Linux programming or rocket science to see the obvious when it's there.

And if that sounds cold, deal with it. Go make your own solution, because I'm fresh out.

Always... always, have a back up plan incase the shit hits the fan!

steve, it's a logical conclusion that diversion of corn to ethanol production in the states has caused
corn prices to rise world-wide, but it doesn't explain it well enough when everything else is
considered.  as to whether apple computers are more eco-friendly than windows, AFAIK they're
all made in the same forced-labour factory camps in PRC, surrounded by the most vile
pollution and filth imaginable.  however, i didn't actually read any of the above messages,
hence this may be off-topic.  but the main reason for switching to OS X is the freedom
from viruses, trojans, spywares, worms, rootkits et al.

OS X isn't nearly as good as Jarvis

Nevermind,  Tony was running the Jarvis platform on a MAC!

Quote - I didn't read the above replies, but the main reason is approx. 1.2 million viruses, rootkits,
trojans, spywares and worms affecting windows vs. approx. 25 (4 orders of magnitude less )
affecting OS X (all patched).  how does one put a price on the damage done by windows
malware?  perhaps a few dollars more is worth the security and stability.

The reason, as far as I understand Windows has so many Virus attacks is simple..There are more windows based OS. If your going to find a whole, writa an app to cause damage and risk the jail time involved in doing such, might as well get the biggest bang. why write an app thats only going to hit 20% of the population when you can attack the other 80% with the same effort.

I have considered going to MAC, but where my concerns are is the proprietary systems. With a PC I ahve more choice in which hardware I use. This choice though comes with the burden of an OS that is written to allow me that choice, and in turn may or may not function as well.

just my 2cents

Quote - Most of us can see the need for environment-friendly construction.
Most of us don't want to pay the price, however.

Some don't... most can't.

Quote - For example, wind generators. Who said they had to be built on land? Coastal waters, just over the horizon, will work just as well. Just be careful not to plant them right in the middle of a shipping lane.

True - until you factor in the increased construction and maintenance costs due to storms, surf, salt water, whiny beachfront property owners slinging fistfuls of subpeonas...

But yeah - I agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be on land, or even wind-generated. We've done hydro for well over a century now. The point was though that it ain't cheap, ain't easy, and can be just as much of a pain-in-the-ass to build as a coal-fired plant. :)

Quote - Another example: bio fuels. They've caused corn prices to rise, which means basic food prices are higher than ever. This affects everyone.  A better solution would be bio fuels based on non-food materials. And there's progress in this field too, in the Netherlands we have an experimental algae farm that produces an awesome amount of fermentable biomass per square meter.

Yep - and waste food materials are an awesome source if we can corral enough of it in one spot. Same with cow dung, waste wood, etc.

Quote - Biggest problem of them all is that any solution to these questions - work, money, environment, energy - requires intelligent decision makers with a broad view. And as far as I know, decision makers compensate their almost universal lack of intelligence with greed and hunger for power

You forgot one other factor - short-sightedness. Most only plan/look ahead to the next election, and don't think much about what their decisions will do 50 years from now. It's never easy to do that, but then leadership isn't supposed to be an easy job :)

/P

Quote -

The reason, as far as I understand Windows has so many Virus attacks is simple..There are more windows based OS. If your going to find a whole, writa an app to cause damage and risk the jail time involved in doing such, might as well get the biggest bang. why write an app thats only going to hit 20% of the population when you can attack the other 80% with the same effort.

Question - since Macs account for nearly 10% of all consumer computers, how come the virus/malware percentage is statistically 0%, and not proportional?

(as someone who does this thing for a living, I already know why --call it a situation of easy marks vs. hardened targets.)

/P

Quote - snipped diatribe before bothering to read

And if that sounds cold, deal with it. Go make your own solution, because I'm fresh out.

:lol: I never asked you for solution or symphaty. You inserted yourself in here errorneously thinking someone actually cares about what you have to say.

:rolleyes: Too bad Renderosity doesn't have ignore user feature. :rolleyes:

Quote -

Quote - Biggest problem of them all is that any solution to these questions - work, money, environment, energy - requires intelligent decision makers with a broad view. And as far as I know, decision makers compensate their almost universal lack of intelligence with greed and hunger for power

You forgot one other factor - short-sightedness. Most only plan/look ahead to the next election, and don't think much about what their decisions will do 50 years from now. It's never easy to do that, but then leadership isn't supposed to be an easy job :)/P

You'd be surprized how much of that decision making is in the hands of local govermnets (city governments) whom are frequently in emotional knee jerk decision making mode to appease those whom scream the loudest.

Here's a crackup: There's a big trend across  the coutnry, and especially in California for green and ECO measures. Yeah, right, wait till we get a week of heat in the summer, and they gobble up every kilowatt of electricity available (and fuels that make electricity) running air conditioning, and if the whole system gets overloaded and there's a brownout... they screeam bloody murder. Just think about how many fuels are burned to keep air conditioners running. Enough to make a minor ozone hole.

Like hell are people like that going to lift a finger to do something that requires a little bit of effort to 'save the environment'. All they do is talk about both sides of their mouth. When they're warm and cozy and comfy, they whine and bemoan about the global warming and  rainforests. The minute their comfort is threathened, they turn into whiny children.

Quote - > Quote -

The reason, as far as I understand Windows has so many Virus attacks is simple..There are more windows based OS. If your going to find a whole, writa an app to cause damage and risk the jail time involved in doing such, might as well get the biggest bang. why write an app thats only going to hit 20% of the population when you can attack the other 80% with the same effort.

Question - since Macs account for nearly 10% of all consumer computers, how come the virus/malware percentage is statistically 0%, and not proportional?

(as someone who does this thing for a living, I already know why --call it a situation of easy marks vs. hardened targets.)

Isn't Mac OS much less voulnerable because of how it was written? Doesn't have all theese security holes and voulnerabilities that MS-Cheapware has?

Agreed. It's one thing to 'raise awareness', but once it's all raised, then what?

There is no pat answer, no easy solution, no silver bullet. "Tough Shit" isn't likely to win over many converts to whatever solutions do exist, and is likely to raise more hostility than sympathy.

This whole energy thing can easily lead to famine, disease, and outright wars. Think that China wouldn't invade oil-rich Siberia if the only other alternative is collapse and famine? Think that Europe wouldn't get a new-found sense of imperialistic ambition if they find themselves short on energy to the point of crisis? Think that ANWR in Alaska wouldn't have the shit drilled out of it once gas prices comprise more than 30% of the family budget? Heh... think again.

I am heartened that we're seeking solutions now, before it gets REALLY ugly.

Strangely enough, it wasn't governments that caused this impetus, it was the markets. Once gasoline shot up past $3 per gallon (average), folks realized that the artificially low prices of oil from the '90s (caused by Saudi Arabia flooding the market to pay off debts incurred during Desert Storm) weren't coming back, and that some hard choices will have to be made.

Hopefully, things like trains, commuter rails, carpooling, and a move back into urban areas will help out until economical means can be found to produce energy without drilling for it. On a personal note, I'm hoping it gives folks a reason to leave Earth entirely (think about it - in a space colony, all of your energy and consumption is pretty much produced in a local, sustainable manner... and there are literally endless piles of resources out there if you know where to find it and how to get it).

/P

Quote -

Isn't Mac OS much less voulnerable because of how it was written? Doesn't have all theese security holes and voulnerabilities that MS-Cheapware has?

Exactly. A UNIX core is, by nature, untrusting of anything. There is a distinct and very tough to penetrate wall of separation between user memory and kernel memory. There are hard separations between user-launched apps and root-level apps. Files have always had hard permissions (to be fair, Windows added this when the NTFS file system came about, but not until Vista was there a hard default enforcement of them).

It isn't impossible to break into a Mac or Linux box and control it, but if you're a hacker, you'd better bring your 'A' game to do it. Script Kiddies need not apply.

/P

*Strangely enough, it wasn't governments that caused this impetus, it was the markets. Once gasoline shot up past $3 per gallon (average), folks realized that the artificially low prices of oil from the '90s (caused by Saudi Arabia flooding the market to pay off debts incurred during Desert Storm) weren't coming back, and that some hard choices will have to be made.

• Yeah, Maybe our Government was hoping that Iraq would turn into another saudi arabia, and pay us for ahem liberating them with another few years or a decade of cheap oil. This whole Iraq thing too is sort of to protect the standard of living of the masses in th US. The masses don't want the war, but they also don't want their comforts messed with. Beats me if I know of a solution.

I remember when I was in college, I wrote an essay about how I'd love to live on a small island living with animals and pets. The whole social, societal and government thing is too complicated for my math oriented brain. If I have to depend on others for a solution... I don't want to play that game.

Of course, much like everyone else, I'm not exactly volunteering to give up too many of my or my family's comforts. Normal human nature. I'm no exception.

*Hopefully, things like trains, commuter rails, carpooling, and a move back into urban areas will help out until economical means can be found to produce energy without drilling for it. On a personal note, I'm hoping it gives folks a reason to leave Earth entirely (think about it - in a space colony, all of your energy and consumption is pretty much produced in a local, sustainable manner... and there are literally endless piles of resources out there if you know where to find it and how to get it).

*Here in southern California Many planned communities are starting to realize there is more and more interest in 'downtown' style living, instead of widely spread out subdivisions where one has to drive 20-30 miles to work.  They're building pretty nice apartments across the street from commercial buildings, and shopping, so you really no longer need to own a car for your daily living. Much like it is in Europe where I grew up.

With the exception of a lot of people in this area having to get used to apartment style living and the adjustment may cause some whining, I think it's a move in a positive direction. Hey, I grew up in a euro-style apartment, and have never lived in a typical american style house till I was 33. It's not the end of the world. This downtown apartment living will also cause a lot of people to have to walk and excercise more (another good thing).

Where I grew up, you don't see very many morbidly obese people (with the exception of those whom truly have serious medical problems). It takes a lot more physical effort to get through the day over there, much more walking, even for people with minor physical problems. Almost no opportunities to sit in a car and got to a 4000 calorie drive-through for dinner.

You have to walk couple of blocks to get groceries, carry them home, and then cook your own dinner - you get half an hour to an hour of aerobic and a little bit of weight training just getting dinner :lol:

Quote - This whole energy thing can easily lead to famine, disease, and outright wars. Think that China wouldn't invade oil-rich Siberia if the only other alternative is collapse and famine? Think that Europe wouldn't get a new-found sense of imperialistic ambition if they find themselves short on energy to the point of crisis? Think that ANWR in Alaska wouldn't have the shit drilled out of it once gas prices comprise more than 30% of the family budget? Heh... think again.

Of course they would. Same reason why there was a war when my old country decided to split into several different countries (Croatia). The one with military strength, and not a lot more then just agriculture) tried to usurp the regions with a lot of other natural resources. (Energy, minig, tourism) People think it's 'ethnic' or 'religious' causes. They're not, it's just modernized territorial tribal warfare. Each tribe wants the best piece of land, so they can thrive. If that means killing off the neighbors, well... that's what's got 'humans' to the top of a food chain. Us 'humans' are nowhere near as 'humane' as we would like to think we are.

Acadia, Have a read at this. Good info in this article for the PC-user: http://gregorywilson.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/why-i-switched-to-a-mac-after-20-years-of-windows/ hope this helps ; )