Well, first off, it really looks pro. I mean, nice splash screen and all.
And, it really acts pro. I mean, we know how finicky some of these pro apps can be, and all.

But then , you get down in it, and it bears a strong similarity to good ol', regular Poser 7. Oddly enough, even the "Pro Fusion" plugin for 3ds max still bears the name of e-frontier, if you examine its properties. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy, Smith Miro-dudes! I mean, come on, couldn't you have at least taken a moment to insert your own name in there?

Aside from that...

Well, unlike many other Pro apps, I couldn't help but notice we still get only OGL, and have no option for the much faster DirectDraw. Y'know, that's a shame, really, 'cause the Quadro retailers are gonna have to hear about that, I bet: "Blah blahblah, I thought all pro graphics apps used... ..blah blah blahhhh"

Well, it's nice that this particular Pro app can use a Pro-rated quad core CPU for rendering. of course, I'd have to question just how "Pro" it is to make it where each core just has it's own little region and just sits there idle as its buddies finish the task... but.. I guess if I wanted THAT kind of "pro" I'd just use max or maya.

Oh, right, silly me, I missed the whole point - the PRO part is where you can import your stuff into said pro apps, thus removing Poser from the loop entirely. The quicker you get outta Poser, the quicker you have a chance to really do the pro thing.

But... what am I saying? What did I expect? Poser Pro really is only Poser 7, with a few added ultr-ugly, ultra lo-res characters, and an enhanced fear of modern graphics cards.

Oh, and did I forget to mention the LWO export still lacks UV data, in spite of it claiming to be "LWO2"? (just like all previous versions). First thing I looked for, actually. I just KNEW there was no chance it got fixed, but I figured I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but.... well, no dice.

Well, there are a couple of nice ZBrush tutorials that come with it - if you can get past the errors and the fact the author went out of his way to use figures that were very simplistically UV mapped. Forget about tryibng that with V4, for example.

I have to say one thing for it though - it can crash pretty damn quick, I mean, FAST, like it barely needs to think about it. it's possibly the only time your entire CPU gets used, actually.

Poser Pro - 500 dollars worth of Poser 7, with a nifty new splash screen, and a thoroughly inefficient render engine... BUT, with the ability to export to real Pro apps.
Of course, if you really wanted to, you COULD have done that with the traditional OBJ export..... but, well, advertising that wouldn't sell copies of it, I guess.

Well, I suppose I shouldn't have expected much from a company who makes... hmm... what? Ring tones or something like that? Buys failing products, maybe hoping for the tax write-off?

You forgot to mention one thought.... "it's obvious that poser pro is not geared towards me and I should have known better and spent my money on something else or buy the base version instead" You really missed that one.

But that counts for most of us and I really wonder who the poser development team had in mind when they started working on Poser Pro. Seems like they managed to release the less

I boughtPoser Pro Base and upgraded from Poser 6, great price for what you get. I got Poser 7 + some cool extra handy features (I needed) and stability for just a few dollars more then the Poser 7 upgrade costs. I'm happy with it and I don't have a need for the Pro version, Base suits me fine, I still don't get it why some who don't even use all the Pro extra's even upgraded to Pro at all, Base would have been enough.

Well I was somehow expecting some extra functionality out of it, and I won't knock at least the max plugin (as long as you have nothing more recent than 32 bit max 9 with SR2), and the LightWave (32 bit) plugin.

Which reminds me, I'd have figured the "pro" standard was up to 64 bit by now - forgot to mention that earlier.

Quote -
You forgot to mention one thought.... "it's obvious that poser pro is not geared towards me and I should have known better and spent my money on something else or buy the base version instead" You really missed that one.

On the contrary, though. I'm not a "pro", but according to what I read, the "pro" version was to be not only geared towards me, but to well exceed my needs. Unless, somehow, pros tend to like slow, buggy software. That could be, but I'm kinda doubting it.
Well, maybe I read it wrong, but I thought the 64 bit support meant true multithreading, including an update to the OpenGL preview. No such luck, as it seems. I exportt a COLLADA file, and I get a mesh in LightWave which not only has no UV's, but has only one surface.

As far as, "some who don't even use all the Pro extra's" is concerned, well, I can't speak for evryone, but I WANTED to. Not only that, but I still think it wouldn't have been too much to ask that they fix some of the decidedly NON-pro "features" Poser already had.
The 64 bit b/g rendering is cool, and it works fine, but that's a minor detail. Maybe the network rendering is the real pro feature, too, but still it has this black hole RAM thing, in addition to being very finicky with graphics cards.

Honestly, though, I don't think they did much at all to it since Poser 7. It's obvious the "fusion" plugins were developed by e fronteir, and I  imagine most of what became "pro" was already created before the purchase by SM.

So, we have another chapter in the continuing saga that is Poser, but the story remains the same - someone buys it, claims to be doing big things with it, then unloads it to the next sucker in line.

And then, they unload it on suckers like me. ;-)

I'm still using Poser6.
I render in Vue, I pose in Poser.
I'd liek Poser ot be 64 bit, TRUE 64 bit multi core CPU, then I may actually bother rendering in it.

Gotta love Poser 6 when you put 3 figures in and can only render at normal standard, not high, or you get "not enough memory" on an 8 GIG RAM quad core....grrr.

Oh yes, RADIOSITY, why not?

Ah well, I love Poser's simple, artistic-friesnly interface, seriosuly
 ryce Poser, Vue = nice to use, I have Lightwave and XSI as well and...they nark me off. Least when I bought Lightwave I got an extra Vue license!.
That Bryce style interface is so vastly better when creating, than drop down, pop up menus from hell.
Can't have everything. shrug

Lightwave 9.5 Collada import is wonky - being fixed in beta so don't really blame poserpro.  PoserPro lightwave plugin works pretty well for me with lightwave 9.5, though I don't do animations some are.

PoserPro IS poser 7 with some under the hood tweaks and new gamma options.  It's not standard poser 7 out of the box that's for sure.

LIghtwave 64 has issues too, so blaming poserpro is kinda not right either.

There are currently very few native fulling working 64 bit 3d applications.  Hell Luxology modo even says on their web site that Modo is not certified for Vista, meaning even Vista 32 - though it works for a lot of people.

As far as I know Poser has always been the same core programmers working on the application, the change in owner just means change in funding.  I'm happy with Poser Pro, it does what many of the other applications with money up their wazooos haven't been able to do yet; works with Vista 64 and lets me send multiple files to render away while I keep working with the software. Oh and it renders much faster, I have a quad core with 8 gigs so its like having more than one computer. I'm really happy with how this tiny company in Santa Barbara lets me work with the latest technology for a couple 100.00 while Adobe, Autodesk & others are still struggling to offer support for the new technology.

Well the Lightwave plugin does work pretty well, yes.
My biggest problem is not being able to keep Poser running. Getting alot of crashes with older scenes for some reason, while it stays most ly stable on new scenes.
The multicore rendering though is what really pisses me off. I thought I had read the renderer was now taking advantage of all 4 cores instead of each to his own little part of the image. I guess I oughta pay clower attention in the future. ;)

I can't get the PP Plug-in for C4D to work at all on 64 bit C4D!

At least I can use Interposer pro

I can't get the PP Plug-in for C4D to work at all on 64 bit C4D!

That's an intentional limitation that applies to every high-end program.The PP plugin was designed for 32 bit systems. That kinda puts a crimp in the professional workflow I'd think. 

I'm not happy with it. It has some of the same problems I experienced when I installed the SR3 to Poser7. I had to reinstall Poser7 and run SR2 on it to get back to where  I had been. The rendering is much slower. Lights seem to be brighter, skin systems such as face_off's Realism and VSS don't work as well under Poser Pro, and the delay in loading textures from a MAT pose was maddening! There needs to be improvement here!

This is my argument:

"Poser "Pro" is a misnomer.

It should have been called "Regular Poser With Some Old Plugins Offering The Ability To Export To Other Applications Generally Perceived As Pro, With A Background 64 Bit Render Engine And A  Queu Manager".

That would have been a bit tedious though, I imagine, though it would have been more accurate than giving it the overall Pro label.

Well, whatever..... turns out the 64 bit BG thing is good enough for me, so I won't gripe too much. At least it doesn't cost as much as Maya. ;-)

well the lightwave poserpro plugin is completly new so you'd have to revise it to:

Regualr Poser with new coding in the renderer added gamma with some old plugins Offering The Ability To Export To Other Applications Generally Perceived As Pro, With A Background 64 Bit Render Engine And A  Queu Manager and a lot of under the hood fixes so Poser 8 can incorporate the new code and a new lightwave plugin.

that'd be a bit more acurate. hahahaha.

*I'm not happy with it. It has some of the same problems I experienced when I installed the SR3 to Poser7. I had to reinstall Poser7 and run SR2 on it to get back to where  I had been. The rendering is much slower. Lights seem to be brighter, skin systems such as face_off's Realism and VSS don't work as well under Poser Pro, and the delay in loading textures from a MAT pose was maddening! There needs to be improvement here!

*WOW sounds like it sucks to be you then.  I'm on Vista 32 basic and PoserPro is at least 10% faster in rendering than my Poser 6 - though I don't have Poser 7, only PoserPro.  I like it.  Seems worth the $200 I paid, I was not gunna pay $400 though that's for sure but that's me.

Quote -
well the lightwave poserpro plugin is completly new so you'd have to revise it to:

Regualr Poser with new coding in the renderer added gamma with some old plugins Offering The Ability To Export To Other Applications Generally Perceived As Pro, With A Background 64 Bit Render Engine And A  Queu Manager and a lot of under the hood fixes so Poser 8 can incorporate the new code and a new lightwave plugin.

that'd be a bit more acurate. hahahaha.

Um, yeah....
So, tell me again why we lightwave people should be happy about this?
The part where they treated us as second-class citizens, that is, and required us to jump through hoops on a navigation-proof website where Poser seems to be hidden more than exposed, while we search for the LW plugin which should have been with the install in the firs place?

Oh, right, NASDAQ..... It might not be such a good thing if the investors knew about the whole Poser thing, I bet.  ;-)

shrug I had the lightwave plugin 5 minutes after my poserpro download finished.

I've been waiting since I bought boxed version of poser 5 and lightwave 7.5, had to buy downgrade of poser 4 and then poser 4 propack to use poser in lightwave and thought THAT sucked balls.

me I'm happy.  I've been paid for my artwork before so I'm a professional!  So this professional is very happy, yep.  - I haven't done any cleint work or commisioned work in over 3 years since I moved so I use the professional term very very loosely now.  hahaha.

Seriously though computers are getting more advanced which means the problems with them are getting trickier and trickier.  Software is advancing so seriously fast that learning is getting harder and harder.  I see a lot of users that complain that the software is at fault, and I'm guilty of that at times, only to find out that it's cause documentation is lacking, no time to learn all the advanced tools to get the job done, and the biggest that I'm guilty of is lazyness.

I'm getting old, I still think of a node as something you want a doctor to remove, perferably in private.

*So, tell me again why we lightwave people should be happy about this?
The part where they treated us as second-class citizens, that is, and required us to jump through hoops on a navigation-proof website where Poser seems to be hidden more than exposed, while we search for the LW plugin which should have been with the install in the firs place?

According to Garree, it was Lightwave that dropped the ball by not providing Smith Micro with the needed information in a timely manner.  

I'm paranoid enough to speculate that Garree's silence following the introduction of the Lightwave plugin is indicative of a loyal Smith Micro associate staying silent when there is nothing nice to say.

Of course, he might just be busy. *

or he's a beta tester and under NDA.

I bought a whole new 64 bit computer, built to my specifications partly because of Poser Pro. I wanted to be able to use some of the stuff that wouldn't work on my 32 bit system.

I can almost use it. Mike3, Steph petite, mil girls/boys/baby and animals all work fine. Victoria 3 is ok as long as I don't add any morphs. Same with Aiko 3 and Hiro.

But try to use Vic 4? Crash. Aiko 4? Crash. G2 figures? Crash. Ok, so I'll use P7 for those. But what gets me a bit upset is when I querried Smith Micro about the problems with Vic and Aiko 4 the only answer I get is that the problem is in the Daz figures and to take it up with them. Daz says there's nothing wrong with their figures and the problem is with Poser.

I really don't like companies that try to shove their problems elsewhere.

Hmmmmm Poser Pro?  For me the much faster render times and gamma correction make it worthwhile for $199 side grade from 7. 

RE: Face_Off and VSS are concerned. Well Face_Off was written a long time ago Poser 5 I believe and has been slightly modified for 7 and runs on Pro.  Turn off gamma in render settings and it's exactly the same as in 7.  VSS is a script for copying nodes en mass and works the same on Pro as 7 also. 

Now for the new Fusion plugins.  Developed by Reiss Studios and previously called Body Studio is now Poser Fusion.  The plugins were due for an update to accomodate Max 9 / 2008 when a deal must have been struck with Reiss and e-Frontier.  Reiss sold Body Studio for $199 - $299 each for Max, Maya etc.  Now SM includes them all in the $199 sidegrade.  Such a deal.  How good are they? Compared to what?  Lets face it, like it or not Poser isn't a must have for most users of these highend 3D apps.    I'm not knocking Poser or it's user base here. It's just a different user than most so-called highend apps. 

Now we have the workflow issue.  Max 9 and 2008 come with both 32 and 64 bit.  Some highend apps still havn't gone 64 bit yet.  I have Max 2008 both 32 and 64 bit. Why you ask?  Well turns out that lots of Max plugins don't suport 64 yet, it takes a while.  So work flow is simple enough for me. If I want a poser figure in Max I import to 32 bit and no problems.

What should and shouldn't be called Pro is certainly up for debate.  Almost any savy puter user today knows you can't believe evrything you read... LOL  Lots of apps out there are Pro, Ultimate etc. but that don't make it so.  As always read all you can about a product and make an informed decision.  If there isn't enough data then wait until there is.

In summary, Poser is a product for a niche market.  Some of this market wants more realistic renders and exports thier figures to an app with more Pro features and a better render engine.  Poser Pro now does this and pretty well I think.  Is Poserr Pro just for so called pro's? No.  Pro's aren't going to use Posers renderer, but we will, and a 40% speed increase isn't anything to sneeze at.  Gamma correction was sorely needed and the fact is in the Poser arena you have as many complaining about it as praising it... LOL  Why don't my scenes lok like they used to they cry.  Well turn off gamma or relight your scene.... sheeeesh  Gamma does a lot more than make things brighter btw.

My 2 cents :)

Don

Quote - I bought a whole new 64 bit computer, built to my specifications partly because of Poser Pro. I wanted to be able to use some of the stuff that wouldn't work on my 32 bit system.

I can almost use it. Mike3, Steph petite, mil girls/boys/baby and animals all work fine. Victoria 3 is ok as long as I don't add any morphs. Same with Aiko 3 and Hiro.

But try to use Vic 4? Crash. Aiko 4? Crash. G2 figures? Crash. Ok, so I'll use P7 for those. But what gets me a bit upset is when I querried Smith Micro about the problems with Vic and Aiko 4 the only answer I get is that the problem is in the Daz figures and to take it up with them. Daz says there's nothing wrong with their figures and the problem is with Poser.

I really don't like companies that try to shove their problems elsewhere.

Read this:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2749419

Cinema 4d, Maya, XSI, 3D Studio Max and Lightwave all have 64bit versions. I'm not sure what other programs the Fusion plugin works with. 

I have a 32bit and 64bit version of Lightwave on a dual boot system. Unfortunately, I don't have a high-speed Internet connection. Is the side-grade, discounted version of Poser Pro only available as a download?

There's no way in hell I'm paying $500 for the minimal advantages over Poser 7, which I already own.  

Quote - Cinema 4d, Maya, XSI, 3D Studio Max and Lightwave all have 64bit versions. I'm not sure what other programs the Fusion plugin works with. 

I have a 32bit and 64bit version of Lightwave on a dual boot system. Unfortunately, I don't have a high-speed Internet connection. Is the side-grade, discounted version of Poser Pro only available as a download?

There's no way in hell I'm paying $500 for the minimal advantages over Poser 7, which I already own.  

Don't know how it's available but your probably right (download only).  DL it at a friends or work and burn to DVD.  If time is of value to you and you don't want to gamma correct in post then it's certainly worth while.  The LW plugin alone is worth it if you plan on using Poser in LW that is.

Don

The gamma correction is worthless to me because I render in Vue. As for the Lightwave  plugin, it might be  worth $200, at least until Vue 8 introduces improved indoor GI. Unfortunately, the 32 bit Fusion plugin limits the size of scenes you'd be able to render and high end programs generally don't like the heavy Poser polygon load. 

Quote - The gamma correction is worthless to me because I render in Vue. As for the Lightwave  plugin, it might be  worth $200, at least until Vue 8 introduces improved indoor GI. Unfortunately, the 32 bit Fusion plugin limits the size of scenes you'd be able to render and high end programs generally don't like the heavy Poser polygon load. 

Sounds like you have your needs covered with Vue.  The Fusion plugins were created to get Poser characters into a highend app so most of the modeling and rendering would be done there.  The high polygon count isn't an issue unless your doing animations. Pro may not be for you but that doesn't mean others won't find it very useful.

Don

*The high polygon count isn't an issue unless your doing animations. *

Actually, it's a major issue if you want to create really large scenes with lots of figures. It's truly amazing to experience how a 64 bit system and 8 gigs of RAM can expand your horizons--not that large scenes are the goal of every Poser user.

At least large scenes are an option in Vue 6 Infinte 64bit, though you have to import the Poser elements piecemeal.

Quote - *The high polygon count isn't an issue unless your doing animations. *

Actually, it's a major issue if you want to create really large scenes with lots of figures. It's truly amazing to experience how a 64 bit system and 8 gigs of RAM can expand your horizons--not that large scenes are the goal of every Poser user.

At least large scenes are an option in Vue 6 Infinte 64bit, though you have to import the Poser elements piecemeal.

Most scenes with many characters wouldn't need hi-res so Poser Pro gave us some low res characters for that.  There are no doubt circumstances where the poly count matters and maybe that means Poser characters aren't your answer. 

Edit: Poser Pro isn't for everyone but it's nice to have choices :)

Don

I thought Poser Pro meant that it came with Pro content finally.  Or at least had modo bundled with it.

Quote - I thought Poser Pro meant that it came with Pro content finally.  Or at least had modo bundled with it.

It has Pro content with special low poly count figures.  Modo is a complete 3D solution and NOT owned by SM.

Don

Quote -
There's no way in hell I'm paying $500 for the minimal advantages over Poser 7, which I already own.  

Just a note, no one is asking you to pay $500 to move from Poser 7 to Pro - since you own Poser 7, prior to the end of the intro period, you would have only paid $199 for the sidegrade to Poser Pro.  As of Sept 1st that was raised to $249, and base is also still available if you desire to leave the plugins out. 

Quote - > Quote - I thought Poser Pro meant that it came with Pro content finally.  Or at least had modo bundled with it.

It has Pro content with special low poly count figures.  Modo is a complete 3D solution and NOT owned by SM.

Don

The content included is able to be modified and redistributed for commercial use and as people are discovering this, we are quickly seeing many uses of them.

To share -  a limited time after the release, we quickly sold through a very awesome bundle deal that was offered with Modo and Poser Pro.  We are very close partners with them and all playing in the land of Collada together.

Quote - each core just has it's own little region and just sits there idle as its buddies finish the task...

The way they break up the picture is really annoying.  Why not just break up the picture into a dozen squares and give each processor a block in turn?  I have 12 cores just waiting, and waiting and waiting...

Why does doing a bunch of regions instead of the entire picture at once to get better processing speed not work only because they leave a black line around the rendered area?  Fix that and I'd be happy, since it's what we want with multi-processing (hint hint).

When you go up a menu, why does it reread the entire directory structure every single time, and then go to the top of the menu?   I don't add content all THAT often!

Why can't you turn off some of the undo's, like camera movements?  I move to see what happened when I change something, and then have to undo return to the original view to undo a change?

Quote - Why can't you turn off some of the undo's, like camera movements?  I move to see what happened when I change something, and then have to undo return to the original view to undo a change?

Click the little key icon next to the camera tools.
Animated cameras are recorded for undo (because they set and change keyframes), non-animated cameras are not recorded for undo.

Quote - The way they break up the picture is really annoying.  Why not just break up the picture into a dozen squares and give each processor a block in turn?  I have 12 cores just waiting, and waiting and waiting...

More usefully, why don't they break up the work of a render by bucket, since that is already plainly parallelizable - core 1 gets a bucket, core 2 gets a bucket, core 3 gets a bucket, yadda yadda yadda up to the maximum number of threads (currently still 4 I believe).  There would still be a little wasted CPU time towards the end of the render when you're down to fewer buckets than you have cores, but I don't see why this would have been harder to design than the current method of dividing render work.

Quote -
More usefully, why don't they break up the work of a render by bucket,.

The four processor restriction per picture is silly too once you have a network render engine.   If you aren't doing animations, then the network rendering concept is useless.

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9879

PoserFusion plugins available for C4D, Maya, 3ds max and Lightwave.
They are now also available in 64-bit versions:
http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9879

Quote - > Quote - Cinema 4d, Maya, XSI, 3D Studio Max and Lightwave all have 64bit versions. I'm not sure what other programs the Fusion plugin works with.

PoserFusion plugins available for C4D, Maya, 3ds max and Lightwave.
They are now also available in 64-bit versions:
http://www.contentparadise.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9879

Thanks for the heads up :)

Don

Does the gamma correction function really make that much difference in a final render- when corrected after export in PS.  I have read all about it on the poserpro site, but wondering what real world experiences any have had.  Is this a feature worth sidegrading for?

thanks

If you already use PS, then no.

It's mainly a feature for people who never do any color correction and it lets them get better results straight from ppro. For anyone doing their corrections in post, you would be turning it off anyways, so that it doesn't get applied twice.

just my opinion... 

i use adjustments of bagginsbill's gamma corrected materials in P6.  i still make corrections in Photoshop.  in my experience, it's always better to get as good an initial result as possible.  and i'm probably just not knowledgeable enough, but i haven't been able to get as good results from just color correcting in post.

i'll research and see if i can learn enough to improve an old image and compare.

Quote - just my opinion... 

i use adjustments of bagginsbill's gamma corrected materials in P6.  i still make corrections in Photoshop.  in my experience, it's always better to get as good an initial result as possible.  and i'm probably just not knowledgeable enough, but i haven't been able to get as good results from just color correcting in post.

i'll research and see if i can learn enough to improve an old image and compare.

If your using VSS on everything in a scene it should work but if you only use it on the character you'll end up with a mixed bag of corrected and not.

Don

i learned that the first time i was trying to deal with low light images.  it's awfully obvious.

just for full disclosure: i'm not using VSS on everything, because the prop takes an oddly large amount of time to load (i have to troubleshoot that) and i'm bad about new workflows in Poser.  i am using GC materials on everything. 

Quote - i learned that the first time i was trying to deal with low light images.  it's awfully obvious.

just for full disclosure: i'm not using VSS on everything, because the prop takes an oddly large amount of time to load (i have to troubleshoot that) and i'm bad about new workflows in Poser.  i am using GC materials on everything. 

Ok so manual GC is added at the material level?  What issues are you having in post?

Don

(Whoops I massively crossposted. Here I'm responding to the idea that you can do gamma in post alone.)

Well, not exactly. You need to un-gamma correct all the incoming material first - texture maps, colors entered in the material room, etc. If you don't, you can't actually get accurate lighting, because you're starting with wrong numbers.

issues?  well, i still end up working with various color corrections like levels or blending layers.  i wouldn't call those issues, though.  as i always say, photographers usually adjust the colors on their works.  just clicking render, no matter how much work i do in Poser, can get good results, but nothing i can't improve on. 

if you want to talk about issues though, i'd say

• **anatomy: **i see a lot of errors even i can tell are awful.  and i'm far from an expert.  which, incidentally, makes them that much harder to correct.  i actually need to start studying.
• AO and shadows: sometimes i hit problems just can't be fully resolved in Poser.  that is, i'm getting artifacts of both too high and too low bias.  or i have issues with using both raytraced shadows and depth mapped shadows given a particular lighting situation.
• hair: in any pose but standing there, most polygon hair has problems. i've bought some that move well, but they don't take raytraced shadows well at all.  hair that doesn't cast shadows often creates a bigger problem.  dynamic hair is too resource intensive for results that still need heavy postwork.  and i've never seen dynamic hair that didn't, imho, including some popular posts at CG Society.
• (nudes only) genitals:  sorry, but when i spend ages adjusting the shaders and lights, i really want results that don't look like Barbie.  which puts me in the very, very odd position of having to ask my boyfriend's opinion on how accurate my painting is, much to his amusement. even if it's basically just a line, there's subtleties that make the difference between looking like a painted line and looking like an actual cleft.
• local ambient lighting:  i was looking at a skin reference photo once, and i noticed how  much redder the insides of the woman's arms were. it was surprisingly obvious for something i hadn't noticed previously.  i don't think IBL can account for the ambient effect of the figure's skin and clothes.  i haven't really tried this, because i haven't really noticed the loss, but i plan to soon.
• eyes: i have yet to get realistic eye results, and i very rarely see them.  i have seen someone in the optical profession (i forget what) try to get an eye model to work properly in Poser 6 and fail.  scaling up to 100,000 times helped, but there were still errors with reflection and refraction that prevented it from working properly.  this was obvious when viewed from the side.   another big problem is very visible if you study people's faces on TV even.  or your own in the mirror.  because in real life, shadows don't need a bias, the small concavity of your iris is enough to make it darker where the cornea makes highlights.  i just saw a perfect example of this last night on TV, and though i can't remember on what.  i can say the movie Hard Candy with its extreme close-ups has some perfect references for this.  it isn't visible in mostly ambient or frontal light, but it is in when its very directional.  most eyes in Poser look dead because if they do have strong highlights, they're not offset by a darker region behind them, nor is there an opposing lighter side. 
• eyelids: most figures have problems with the edges of their eyelids. they're either too thin or too thick, too flat, or just plain invisible.
• clothes: if they're dynamic, it's easier to fix certain errors in post than tweak the simulation.  if they're conforming, there's almost definitely problems.  and both often have small poke-through issues. 

just to say, since using mostly raytraced shadows and final resolutions of 2400+ px, my render times have gone up as high as 24+ hours.  so if i find a small error that i couldn't see at test render resolution, i tend to just fix it in post.  you might be surprised at what can be hidden at even half of that.

Quote - (Whoops I massively crossposted. Here I'm responding to the idea that you can do gamma in post alone.)

Well, not exactly. You need to un-gamma correct all the incoming material first - texture maps, colors entered in the material room, etc. If you don't, you can't actually get accurate lighting, because you're starting with wrong numbers.

It seems to me that vendors need to start disclosing their material settings prior to purchase by consumers.  Otherwise your image could be a hodge-podge.  I know what  your thinking.....  let the artists correct everything... "buyer beware".

Don

Quote - issues?  well, i still end up working with various color corrections like levels or blending layers.  i wouldn't call those issues, though.  as i always say, photographers usually adjust the colors on their works.  just clicking render, no matter how much work i do in Poser, can get good results, but nothing i can't improve on. 

if you want to talk about issues though, i'd say - **anatomy: **i see a lot of errors even i can tell are awful.  and i'm far from an expert.  which, incidentally, makes them that much harder to correct.  i actually need to start studying.

• AO and shadows: sometimes i hit problems just can't be fully resolved in Poser.  that is, i'm getting artifacts of both too high and too low bias.  or i have issues with using both raytraced shadows and depth mapped shadows given a particular lighting situation.
• hair: in any pose but standing there, most polygon hair has problems. i've bought some that move well, but they don't take raytraced shadows well at all.  hair that doesn't cast shadows often creates a bigger problem.  dynamic hair is too resource intensive for results that still need heavy postwork.  and i've never seen dynamic hair that didn't, imho, including some popular posts at CG Society.
• (nudes only) genitals:  sorry, but when i spend ages adjusting the shaders and lights, i really want results that don't look like Barbie.  which puts me in the very, very odd position of having to ask my boyfriend's opinion on how accurate my painting is, much to his amusement. even if it's basically just a line, there's subtleties that make the difference between looking like a painted line and looking like an actual cleft.
• local ambient lighting:  i was looking at a skin reference photo once, and i noticed how  much redder the insides of the woman's arms were. it was surprisingly obvious for something i hadn't noticed previously.  i don't think IBL can account for the ambient effect of the figure's skin and clothes.  i haven't really tried this, because i haven't really noticed the loss, but i plan to soon.
• eyes: i have yet to get realistic eye results, and i very rarely see them.  i have seen someone in the optical profession (i forget what) try to get an eye model to work properly in Poser 6 and fail.  scaling up to 100,000 times helped, but there were still errors with reflection and refraction that prevented it from working properly.  this was obvious when viewed from the side.   another big problem is very visible if you study people's faces on TV even.  or your own in the mirror.  because in real life, shadows don't need a bias, the small concavity of your iris is enough to make it darker where the cornea makes highlights.  i just saw a perfect example of this last night on TV, and though i can't remember on what.  i can say the movie Hard Candy with its extreme close-ups has some perfect references for this.  it isn't visible in mostly ambient or frontal light, but it is in when its very directional.  most eyes in Poser look dead because if they do have strong highlights, they're not offset by a darker region behind them, nor is there an opposing lighter side. 
• eyelids: most figures have problems with the edges of their eyelids. they're either too thin or too thick, too flat, or just plain invisible.
• clothes: if they're dynamic, it's easier to fix certain errors in post than tweak the simulation.  if they're conforming, there's almost definitely problems.  and both often have small poke-through issues. 

just to say, since using mostly raytraced shadows and final resolutions of 2400+ px, my render times have gone up as high as 24+ hours.  so if i find a small error that i couldn't see at test render resolution, i tend to just fix it in post.  you might be surprised at what can be hidden at even half of that.

All very valid points.  I sometimes look at a render I just did and find the problems so I can decide if I want or can post-fix them easier or faster than a rerender in Poser.  I also find myself in situations where if I correct something in Poser it completly changes the intent of the image.  Post is necessary for almost all Poser renders.  Some put up images and state they didn't use any post work and it usually shows.

Don

Ok Here's a demo. I'll post three images. First an un-corrected render.

There are quite a few big differences. The things that most bother me about the PS post-worked image is that the colors have all faded. The pink wall becomes almost white. The salmon pillars lose the rich reddish tone. Simon's shirt isn't so red anymore. The sky is not so blue.

There are also noticeable loss of detail. Look at the pink wall in the shadow part. The gamma-corrected, in addition to retaining the pinkness, also has more detail in the shadows.

You're not supposed to use poser if you are wanting to do 3d.  If you want to do 3d stuff you have to use max or maya. DON"T YOU KNOW THAT BY NOW?! Poser has only been out for like 3 months now so you need to give the devs some time.   The PRO part was a typo.  Next patch should fix this.

ok enough sarcasm.

Poser pro is still a step in the right direction (in a retard's limping step sort of way LOL).

The only thing that keeps poser alive is it's rich media content.  I have never seen so many beautiful 3d assets available for such a low price.  This is hands down the ONLY reason why poser is popular.  

I'd like to add that poser's animation is very powerful but has a serious lack of documentation. I finally figured out how to animate but it shouldn't of taken this long. 

Quote -
The only thing that keeps poser alive is it's rich media content.  I have never seen so many beautiful 3d assets available for such a low price.  This is hands down the ONLY reason why poser is popular.  

actually, i don't think that's true.  it does need the rich media content, but that's because its users are generally hobbyists and people who don't have any art training, software or computer training, or training in 3d.  most users can't make any content.

Poser keeps going because it's easy, cheap, and has a lot of power for its price and ease.  i've yet to see another 3d app (except D|S) in which the scale and translation controls were as immediately obvious and accessible.  not saying it doesn't have bugs and usability problems, but compared to just about anything that's not D|S, learning Poser is a cakewalk. 

most Poser users wouldn't take the necessary time to make a V4 portrait in most other apps, even if she were rigged.

Quote - I'd like to add that poser's animation is very powerful but has a serious lack of documentation. I finally figured out how to animate but it shouldn't of taken this long. 

i dunno.  i figured out technically how to animate within minutes of using the program.  not, you know, how to do anything at all good, but it was easy to do something.  and a quick search taught me how to do use the walk designer, how to use it with a path, how to use the animation palette, and even how to use a few scripts to help adjust timing and stuff.  i mean, what i was doing still looked like butt because i have less than zero talent for animating, but learning to just do stuff was about a day's efforts.  but then i very rarely depend on an application's documentation.  i pretty much always take it to the Web.  well, and maybe you're talking about advanced features i'm completely unaware of.

Quote - Well, not exactly. You need to un-gamma correct all the incoming material first - texture maps, colors entered in the material room, etc. If you don't, you can't actually get accurate lighting, because you're starting with wrong numbers.

This is fine, but you will still need to turn off the automatic 2.2 gamma correction checkmark in the render options. If this disables gamma compensation of textures then you can do it manually with a node per texture file.

What you do not want in any case is baking a gamma curve into your render, then removing it in post and then applying it again. That will ruin your render.