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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Feb 15 11:01 am)



Subject: Talk Designer doesn't create eye movements or blinks for David 3.0?


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 6:33 PM · edited Mon, 10 February 2025 at 7:04 PM

I'm curious, why would it succeed in creating head movements but not blinks or eye movement, when those options are checked in Talk Designer?
I understand that David is not bla bla bla but I got the expansion pack  and thus I'm at least using proper David Viseme, you know,  xml file.
The realism sucks really bad, but having the blinks and eye movements would have been nice as well.
Also, just checking in with a possibly premature opinion, and without getting into any gory details, but having made an initial pass at it over the past 2 days, the Talk Designer seems to me as buggy as a late July barbeque the day after a rain...anyone else chalk it up like this after lots of time on it? 
 


TheOwl ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 9:38 PM

Get Mimic man. DAZ made it.

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 9:55 PM

I agree with TheOwl.  Mimic is much better than Talk Designer and can be used more generically (on any figure besides Daz figures).  You can export an animated pose file to use in Poser so there is little work beyond that involved in doing the lip-sync.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 9:55 PM

I may have to, yeah? How wonderful is it, really? 


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 9:59 PM

Wow, Kuroyume's opinion came in in right "underneath" my post as I was typing, so now I know I must do this acquisition. Kuroyume has helped me in the past with good advice...don't remember what, exactly, but...yeah, it's on. I hope MImic is easy to learn and works well, because It's on now.


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Tue, 14 October 2008 at 10:33 PM

Well, thanks. :)

For use of Daz figures in Mimic, you want a figure saved with all of the head morphs.  This way, the 'visemes' (the mouth speech morphs) and other expression morphs are in place for Mimic's use.  What I do is run Poser, load the Daz figure (D3 for instance), inject the head morphs, and save this figure to the library as a new figure (say, 'David 3 Mimic') specifically for Mimic use.  Now Mimic recognizes all of the morphs needed.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


TheOwl ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 12:14 AM

Well we can help you almost with anything other than love problems. LOL

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 7:28 AM

Speaking of love, I forgot to spread some to The Owl, the Originator of TheTip, in the first place. Thanks! I now have Mimic, we'll see how it collides with my finicky brain pan today.


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 7:36 AM · edited Wed, 15 October 2008 at 7:38 AM

Thanks, Koroyume, that's exactly what I needed to know. I need a decently lip-synched D3 Santa, fast. Cool part is, just a short sentence will be enough, but hand tweaking even a short sentence in Poser's god-awful animation utilities are enough to trap me in the NIghtmare Before Christmas.
Jeez, what don't I hate about (the actual) animating in Poser?:  let's see: keyframing, animation layers, splines, selecting... yep,  hate all of those. I guess there isn't anything i don't hate about (the actual) animating in Poser. Still, I maintain, at this point it's merits outweigh it's infuriations. It's a must-have for me...all those cheap assets,!


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 9:42 AM

Okay, I did all the steps correctly,

  • Saved the morph-injected character in the poser Library as D3 Santa
  • Complete the Session manager with appropriate .wav, .txt, cr2, dmc (David) files
  • ticked on head, eyes, eyebrows, blink

-Everything is correct, yes sir, correct I heartily say again-

but, hit play,  the character in Mimic has only one movement, the head movement. No blinks, no eyebrows, no eyes, not even a lip tremor, let alone synch.

That dmc file (David) that's in the default menu...that's the one to use, right?

What kinda dark xmass voodoo is in this DAZ Santa for David that makes all lipsynching schemes go to sh*t?

or is it just my weary brain cells, my frazzled limbic system, and that I' m not seeing something obvious?


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 1:59 PM

Don't use the built-in Mimic Character File (CR2) for David, specify the figure CR2 that you saved (D3 Santa) instead in Mimic.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 4:38 PM

I see from your other post that you've also encountered the Mimic-doesn't-understand-PMD issue.  Best to turn off "Use External Binary Morph Targets" and "Use File Compression" in Poser for characters to be used in Mimic.

Don't understand why Daz couldn't add this support into Mimic 3.  My C4D plugin supports both file compression and PMD external binary morphs. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 5:55 PM

Yeah, see, that's the thing. i did all those things (finally), and it's better (now there is  lip synching and head and eye movements, and the santa morph came thru) but far from perfect: no blinks, no eyebrow motion,  and can't make meaningful keyframe changes when back in Poser with the pose/animation applied. Meaning, I can't for example apply some smile or lip pucker in a layer on top.

In Mimic, the keyframes for the blinks, etc are present, but they have no effect.
Weird. An obvious case of shit not working like it's supposed to... either my brain or their crap.   


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 6:27 PM

It may be the strength is too low.

Make sure the Gestures are enabled in the Session Manager.

You basically can use expressions and/or keyframe the gestures yourself.  Not very automated in this case.  And it would be nice to be able to copy/paste keyframes from one gesture to another (say, Blink Left to Blink Right).

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 7:34 PM

The strength is high, the gestures are enabled...it's a fricking mystery to me at this point.
I mean, there's the keyframes, I can see them, but zero reaction.


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Wed, 15 October 2008 at 10:20 PM

You are using the default DMC file for David?  And your David figure with All Head Morphs Inj (D3 Santa)?

I'd definitely go to DAZ forum for support on this then.  I intentionally did the same thing earlier (my David 3 Mimic figure) and there were eye blinks (added Gesture keyframes) and expressions all working - at least in Mimic.  Didn't export and load into Poser but I could try this.

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Thu, 16 October 2008 at 8:12 AM

I'll bet dollars to donuts that it's the Santa custom face morph that's the cause of what I'm seeing.

The fact that you're spending time pulling for me is a cause to say "aringato gozaimas"

On this matter of all head morphs injected: the documentation with D3 Santa indicates that David Base is all that's needed.  And, I can find no "extra" (inj/rem) head morphs for David in the library.  The "preloaded" David base morphs (as you know) include the necessary

That pretty much narrows it down to the custom face morph screwing things up, I think. YOu're right, time to go to Daz for help.

Bringing David into Mimic without the custom face morph does indeed work as it should.
The realism even without tweaking exceeds what I am getting from the Santa-doped David.

I'm going to try taking that pose file into poser, applying it to a Santa-doped David, just for the #$^@ of it.
 


eyeorderchaos ( ) posted Thu, 16 October 2008 at 10:08 AM

Okay, here is what worked, contrary to all the advice and documentation:

Do the Mimic stuff on a regular David. Bring that Pose into Poser and apply it to a regular David.
Then, inject that David with the Santa morph. Works like a charm now,  eyebrows, blinks  and everything. I'm so excited, I rushed to post this and  forgot to check and see if it's gonna let me do any tweaking in Poser, but...I'd say this is progress :)


kuroyume0161 ( ) posted Thu, 16 October 2008 at 10:42 AM

Interesting.  How the Santa morph affects Mimic is very weird, but glad that it works going the other way.

Oh, doo itashimashite. :)

C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, you blow your whole leg off.

 -- Bjarne Stroustrup

Contact Me | Kuroyume's DevelopmentZone


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