Hello all,
i am quite new to 3d art, and the renderosity sitecomposition causes me headache for navigation g but i am sure i will learn it.

Yesterday night i stumbled over bagginsbills threads for water, glass and stuff here at on rdna.
I am a little bit confused integrating all the information :/
i am german and my english isn`t the best so its twice as hard... and the physics beyond the explanations are fantastic but overwhelming.

So far i understand a little from the fresnel, refraction and reflection stuff, but there are things i do not understand... except the fact that baggins does shadertrees that would take me weeks to just assemble not mentioned they would do anything ;)

I have problems deciding when water does just REFLECT and when it does Reflect AND REFRACT. what factors are important in real life viewingangle? Clearness? Depth?

and i wanted to ask whether there is a "perfect training area", i am looking for a scene (allready used the environment sphere freebie and planes), but including the lights is too difficult. (sorry english lacks here to write what i feel).  allways thinking the strange effects i get sometimes have to do with the sphere making artifacts, and and and.

What I want to ask: Is there a preset environement with is technically able to do watertestings with the lights adjusted and the sphere adjusted that "simply" (lol) playing in the shadertree for water can demonstrate the differences without having to deal with problems arising through my noobish lightning efforts? its hard to figure out stuff when there are so many not understood things in the trainingarea as lightning and stuff.

PS: I am sorry if what i want is too stupid... i know there are too many factors, but learning with so many variables is a little hard for me and so i hope to rule some of them out by getting clues how to make a working trainingground ;)

Good questions. 

I'd say refraction is only needed in a few cases: when you
show a boat with oars or paddles, or in a small pool or fish bowl.
Most rivers and lakes are too muddy to show any depth.

A "training scene" would be a very good idea.

Reflektion und Refraktion finden an der Oberfläche statt, das in das Wasser eingedrungene Licht wird dann durch Schwebe- und Schmutzteilchen reflektiert - oder eben vom Boden oder den Seitenbegrenzungen des Wassers. Bagginsbill hat einen Fluß dadurch simuliert, das er mehrere Ebenen mit Noise hinter die Wasseroberfläche gesetzt hat, um diesen Effekt zu simulieren.

Sollte Übersetzungsbedarf bestehen schick mir einfach eine Site Mail.

Reflection and Refraction occur on the surface only, at least to my knowledge. Light which passes through the surface hits either small particles within the water, or the ground. BagginsBill once made a River with one surface with reflection and Refraction and some additional noise layers to simulate the depth. 

If someone writes a better explanaition I will translate it for ghost6677.

Im Prinzip ja, zumindest in der Realität. Reflection ist die Spiegelung an der Oberfläche und Refraction ist die Brechung, die am Übergang zweier unterschiedlich dichter Medien, hier Luft und Wasser, vorliegt.

D.h. einfach gesagt, Reflection ist nötig für die Dinge über Wasser und Refraction eher für die unter Wasser, aber von über Wasser, gesehenen Sachen.

Somit ist klar, beides in Reinkultur gibts nur bei Totenflaute, also glattem Wasser.

In dem Moment, wo irgendwie Wellen im Spiel sind und das Wasser halbweg natürlich ist, also nicht absolut klar, würde ich Refraction in Poser eher zur Akte legen. Z.B. bei eingetauchten Rudern oder so.

Soweit es Bagginsbill angeht, so sind dessen Shader natürlich absolute Spitzenklasse, immer.
Aber für einen Poser-Anfänger, waren/sind wir alle mal irgendwie, auch so ziemliche der stärkste Stoff. Vielleicht wäre es besser, erstmal etwas "simpler" zu beginnen.
Es gibt da ein einfaches aber gutes Wassertutorial hier in der Tut-Sektion unter
www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php
Und da sind noch 2 oder 3 andere, einfach Search mit Water probieren, aber o.g. Tut ist bestimmt der beste Ansatz zum Einstieg.

Komplizierter werden die Dinge schon von alleine ... :biggrin:

As far as I know reflection happens at the surface, mirroring things above the water, which refraction is a point of the change-over of two mediums with different density. In this case water and air. So it's more interesting for things being under water but seen from outside the water.

In general both is only fully seen with absolutely calm water. Having some natural water, muddy as said before, and/or some wavelets, especialy refraction isn't such a important effect to rebuild everytime in poser. Example given some oars beneath the water surface.

As far as bagginsbill stuff is named, this is for sure the best stuff to be found for shaders. But on other hand fpor a newbie it might be easier to start with some easier things.
There is a simple but good water tutorial her in tut section
www.renderosity.com/mod/tutorial/index.php
This make a good start. Making things more complicated later will be done by itself ...