This thread is better than the "7 Reasons To Buy Poser 7".

Smith Micro,  get this puppy on the shelves NOW !!!!

Quote - Also, I just got a last-minute update to the renderer, and now it's even faster and cleaner than before. A few weeks ago this was taking an hour, now it is 2 minutes.

I told you they were still working on it.

Fabulous, Bill. Thanks so much for these tank pics and comments. I'm actually torn... I don't want to wait for the next version of Pro, but I definitely will not be buying both; I can justify that. Oh well. But the results and speeds are awesome. Smith Micro has a winner on their hands, IMO.

Personally, I am amazed at the flexibility of the UI.  The docking feature allows you to move and dock just about anything that used to float and its very accurate in terms of where you can dock.  You can close UI pieces that you don't use often (and can turn them into floating panels instead).  You can insert things that you used to have to open after poser started up - like the Python Palette.  You can also lock palettes in place so that nothing gets moved accidentally.

Wxpython is the icing on the cake.  Scripts can be built to take advantage of the dockable palettes and also inserted into your UI.  I've seen at least one script manipulate the selected figure in real time - moving multiple arm and leg segments.  There are huge plugin possibilities here.

I can't wait, but I don't want SM and the crew to rush just to save a few days or weeks if they have any other inhancements that won't take more than an extra month.

I love the new UI features. I use my poser dots that get me into different sizes shapes to get the  flexability that most suits me. The new system will keep things out of the Document window so I can see everything all the time instead of moving things around time to time.

BTW the new interface also works splendidly in multi-monitor rigs.

I don't know if they have sped up the Folder system in Poser 8, I have Poser Pro, and getting to the collections sometimes takes a good while. It is a great idea, but it takes so long, I very seldom us it. If that part is faster, then that is another feather in Poser 8s hat.

It's already been mentioned that you can work through multiple runtimes simultaneously. I'll be interested to see how that works, but that sounds so good, as the present method is a real PITA.

You guys have pushed me back on to the "when I can afford it " fence.

Bill - like a lot of people I tend to use photographic backgrounds. 

With IDL what happens if you use the same photo for the background AND the IDL light?
Does that give better results - as in more realistic results -than the way it works now in Poser 6 and 7 ?

I'm hoping Poser 8 has some better way for rotating and translating things: body parts, figures, and props.
As it is, all rotations and translations of objects that aren't parented to something or children in a hierarchy rotate according to world coordinates.
Most of the "real" 3D apps allow you to set the action center for an object without altering its pivot point. It would be good if Poser could do that.
Not like I'm really counting on that... all new Poser releases usually have maybe one feature I would have wanted, and it's usually something near the bottom of my list, so I'm not really hopeful Poser 8 will have this feature either. ;-)

Quote - I was messing around with Alyson morphs.

Alsyon is not a stripper or a super model. We have a few figures for that, and I know of a new one under development that will knock you over, so I think we're covered there.

Given how many people I've seen asking for normal everyday characters and clothing, I think some people will find this figure a very welcome addition to their library.

@ BB: It seem that you are a fan of Kati Witt ... at her times known as the beautiest face of the real existing east german socialism ... :biggrin:
Ok ,may be more from the time of her last olympics than of her world championship times ... but really near ...

B.t.w. have you foreseena a parameter to have a somewhat bigger icon in the library tree as standard. For me the additional informations on the selected item (Size and Dates) are not very usefull but having a better/larger view to all icons in screen could help in better identificating the various similar named V4-Skirts or such things.
Screen display becoming bigger and bigger nowadays and so 32*32 icons and such are a bit tiny especially for the four-eyed older people among us.

In your search function do you rely mainly on the text (parts) from the filenames or does it include also (parts of the) directory-names ??

Jo

Manoloz:

Quote - The new rigging system is fabulous. You can have multiple falloff zones AND you are not restricted to just have some scaled spheres. You can now use capsule deformation zones, with the capsule size fully parametric.

And how about those very old rigging bugs, like the tumbling falloff zone problem, or the symmetry/falloff zone oritentation flipping problem?  One figure that shows this problem is Sydney, left and right buttock bones, Bend; falloff zones do not orient correctly in current version of Poser (they're asymmetrical).  Are they symmetrical in Poser 8?

 Poser 8 comes with a new version of Python. Will the older Python scripts (I've bought a few) still work with the new Python?

This is **NOT **rendered in Poser 8 - but yes you can get a tilt-shift/lens baby effect using 3d.
I tried it once after doing some Bokeh stuff on some aerial shots and yes it does work.  

So here is a Vue GI render with Alien Skins Bokeh filter. Note It's the closest I could get to P8 as I don't have it either.

It's not the best image - just something done quickly to show how it looks, but I think with P8 doing this will give some amazing life like images.

Edited to add - click the image for the full size 800x600 render.
   

Quote - > Quote - ...I wanna try to get a "tilt shift" effect, and see if I can do it in Poser :)

This is **NOT **rendered in Poser 8 - but yes you can get a tilt-shift/lens baby effect using 3d.
I tried it once after doing some Bokeh stuff on some aerial shots and yes it does work.  

So here is a Vue GI render with Alien Skins Bokeh filter. Note It's the closest I could get to P8 as I don't have it either.

It's not the best image - just something done quickly to show how it looks, but I think with P8 doing this will give some amazing life like images.

Edited to add - click the image for the full size 800x600 render.
   

Thanks for that, mrsparky :)  I actually like that effect, even if it wasn't P8 ;)  

P8 Render of Alyson

Quote - Or just render with 1 light and IDL. Done, first try. This is an enormous difference. It is not a small thing.

There are a whole lot of new types of scenes you could NEVER get right with Poser 7 that are a total automatic snap, no adjusting of anything at all, in Poser 8.

Yes it renders longer. So what? When the very first render is perfect, I am doing something else while it renders, not a care in the world. This is a totally different experience than baby sitting a render and doing like 30 of them before I'm happy with all the compromises and cheats.

Also, I just got a last-minute update to the renderer, and now it's even faster and cleaner than before. A few weeks ago this was taking an hour, now it is 2 minutes.

I told you they were still working on it.

going from 1 hour to 2 minutes is a big difference.
a huge difference.

i noticed that the lighting is a little to dark under the tunel and under the tank. it would not be black. can we change this? 

Quote - > Quote - Or just render with 1 light and IDL. Done, first try. This is an enormous difference. It is not a small thing.

There are a whole lot of new types of scenes you could NEVER get right with Poser 7 that are a total automatic snap, no adjusting of anything at all, in Poser 8.

Yes it renders longer. So what? When the very first render is perfect, I am doing something else while it renders, not a care in the world. This is a totally different experience than baby sitting a render and doing like 30 of them before I'm happy with all the compromises and cheats.

Also, I just got a last-minute update to the renderer, and now it's even faster and cleaner than before. A few weeks ago this was taking an hour, now it is 2 minutes.

I told you they were still working on it.

going from 1 hour to 2 minutes is a big difference.
a huge difference.

i noticed that the lighting is a little to dark under the tunel. can we change this? 

I don't see why you'd want to change it.  The shadows under the tunnel are realistic.  As in, that's how it would look if you were taking a photo, not making a render.

Direct sunlight will cause Hi Contrast shadows, An Overcast will soften those shadows. thus softer shadows. A Photo is not as flexable as the eye. Direct light with a high contrast shadow, when looked at through the eye looks at the overall scene will look contrasty also, but the human eye acts like f stops on a camera, when you focas in on (example of the shadows under the tank.)
 
This will still be high contrast, but the eye can detect a greater range of contrast than your typical photo. Because of this, The Rendered Tank renders just like a Photo would in Direct light. If you want to change this, your going to need to use another light source so you can soften the shadows. 

Thus a scene with the tank in nature will show as the example did with hard shadows. This is why photographers use refeclors on models, a trick to soften the would be unflatering hard shadows of the model. either that or shoot the shot in the morning or evening. 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Or just render with 1 light and IDL. Done, first try. This is an enormous difference. It is not a small thing.

There are a whole lot of new types of scenes you could NEVER get right with Poser 7 that are a total automatic snap, no adjusting of anything at all, in Poser 8.

Yes it renders longer. So what? When the very first render is perfect, I am doing something else while it renders, not a care in the world. This is a totally different experience than baby sitting a render and doing like 30 of them before I'm happy with all the compromises and cheats.

Also, I just got a last-minute update to the renderer, and now it's even faster and cleaner than before. A few weeks ago this was taking an hour, now it is 2 minutes.

I told you they were still working on it.

going from 1 hour to 2 minutes is a big difference.
a huge difference.

i noticed that the lighting is a little to dark under the tunel. can we change this? 

I don't see why you'd want to change it.  The shadows under the tunnel are realistic.  As in, that's how it would look if you were taking a photo, not making a render.

i think its a little to dark.. there would be more light IMO

Too dark? You are not a photographer, I assume.

If the luminance value of two identical objects are compared in direct sunlight versus indoors in daylight, without artificial light and with typical window space, the ratio is 1000 to 1.

That means that if you correctly expose the outdoor tank at maximum without blown highlights resulting in an RGB value in sRGB space of 255 (the maximum without loss of info) then the same point inside the tunnel would be represented by sRGB 11. Can you see 11 on your monitor? Unless you've calibrated it perfectly, you cannot. I cannot see it on my laptop. But on my $500 Samsung, I can, and it looks like photographs do.

Quote - i think its a little to dark.. there would be more light IMO

Not if you were using a camera in the real world.  Assuming that render is the equivalent to a scene in bright sunlight, the only way to get the image the way you think it should be would be taking multiple exposures and blending them into an HDR image through post-processing.

A few weeks ago I took some pictures of people walking on the ice (I live in the Arctic).  Nice sunny day, so there was a ton of reflected light.  Yet if you look at the images, there are parts of them that come out as totally black, which was impossible given the lighting conditions.  The problem was that if I set the camera to get the contrast in the shadows, the lit areas were completely washed out.

You don't see this when you look at something directly because your eyes are constantly adjusting to allow different levels of light in while your brain is combining the signal, post-processing in effect, to create that HDR image.

Mind plays visual tricks on us.

Take for example, building facades.  You look at the building from outside, and the interiors (seen from outside) look quite dark. However, I do archviz and it is an eternal complaint from clients as to why the rooms beyond the windows look black. I have to take them out for a walk or show them actual photographs for them to realize that that in fact is the way they look. But the brain seems to filter this, and automatically "believe" to see it brighter, just as to how we see it when we are inside the buildings.

So at least on my case, I put curtains really near the window, so it doesn't look so dark, or resign myself to add some lighting in the interiors, to satisfy the clients.

Sometimes, I'm just not so sure, and I try to really see for myself some real-world examples. Take pictures, and use them for reference.

Then, you have LDR images vs HDR images,  high end monitors, mortal monitors. And artificial lighting for tv and movies, which look "right", but technically, are completely artificial.

i am not talking about 100% physical realistic images. its still about what we see. if we see more light shouldnt we render with more light? 

Ummm I suppose it depends on whether you're after realism, or an artistic impression of reality.

You can render however you like. The point is if you want to depart from reality, then it will be your choice, and it will happen because you did it on purpose. This is very different from the renderer of Poser 7, which REFUSES to produce realism under any circumstances but heroic efforts on your part.

I prefer to start with real, then perhaps add a small light here and there for artistic reason. Particularly, I want photo-realism, i.e. I want to start with a photographic representation.

BB - any chance you can provide with an example of a background photo and IDL ?

By background photo, do you mean something different than all the ones I've posted so far, something less than a full sphere? Every outdoor one I did was lit by a photo.

IDL is not influenced by objects that subtend a small angle of view or a shallow angle. The dominance of IDL comes 90% from objects that subtend an angle within 90 degrees of the surface normal.

A photo facing the camera behind a subject figure contributes practically nothing to the sides of a subject figure, and nothing whatsoever to the front of the figure.

So what's the deal with monitor calibration, anyway?
Is it that a cheaper monitor just doesn't have the physical range ability? Aside from the various gamma correction charts you can find online, how do you know if your monitor is calibrated correctly or not?
Because even a cheap monitor can make those gamma charts look like they're supposed to.

Quote - So what's the deal with monitor calibration, anyway?
Is it that a cheaper monitor just doesn't have the physical range ability? Aside from the various gamma correction charts you can find online, how do you know if your monitor is calibrated correctly or not?
Because even a cheap monitor can make those gamma charts look like they're supposed to.

I use a Spyder calibrator to make sure my monitor is properly calibrated

Quote - Because even a cheap monitor can make those gamma charts look like they're supposed to.

Err, if the chart looks like it's supposed to then your monitor is now calibrated correctly. ;)

I am still waiting on an answer about Sydney's rig symmetry in Poser 8, not like it's a hard thing to check.

Quote -

Err, if the chart looks like it's supposed to then your monitor is now calibrated correctly. ;)

Well I do have 3 pretty good monitors now, all 24" Acers. I've checked out the charts, plus Windows 7 has a built-in calibration utility (in display properties), and everything looks great, so I'm assuming my calibration is correct.

But even with my 4 year old 19" Viewsonic CRT monitor I can get the gamma charts looking good, yet I still think the gamma is off on that one.

It seems to me that the best you could do with a chart or a utility is to get it relatively correct; your white may look white and your black may look black, relative to its own abilities, but you can't really know if your white is pure white and your black is pure black. If that makes any sense.

*By background photo, do you mean something different than all the ones I've posted so far, something less than a full sphere? Every outdoor one I did was lit by a photo.

• Yep. What I mean is there any chance you could show us an image where the character is rendered against a background photo. And the IDL lighting has been created from that photgraph as well.

Like how we do Image Based Lighting in P6.

Quote - I am still waiting on an answer about Sydney's rig symmetry in Poser 8, not like it's a hard thing to check.

Not hard for you, maybe. I have not the slightest idea what you're talking about here:

*And how about those very old rigging bugs, like the tumbling falloff zone problem, or the symmetry/falloff zone oritentation flipping problem?  One figure that shows this problem is Sydney, left and right buttock bones, Bend; falloff zones do not orient correctly in current version of Poser (they're asymmetrical).  Are they symmetrical in Poser 8?

I've seen you talk about this. I understand the words asymmetry and falloff, but the rest of it is unknown stuff to me.

I'm about to enter a really nasty work week for me, including 3 solid full days of meetings.

I won't be providing many answers or demo renders this week, or doing much with Poser at all, really.

Quote - *By background photo, do you mean something different than all the ones I've posted so far, something less than a full sphere? Every outdoor one I did was lit by a photo.

• Yep. What I mean is there any chance you could show us an image where the character is rendered against a background photo. And the IDL lighting has been created from that photgraph as well.

Like how we do Image Based Lighting in P6.

I was sort of with you until the last sentence. Image Based Lighting is 360 degree, and still is. It has never been workable with a background photo alone.

I mentioned the environment sphere - a 360 degree photograph is used, not just a background. If you use the environment sphere OR a matching IBL probe, you will get the 360 degree lighting.

You can still use IBL as the primary source of indirect illumination. Then Poser 8 will further bounce that around within the objects in the scene.

Background photos never have contributed to lighting. If I render with a lit rectangle behind a figure, or a light behind the figure, and no other light sources or objects in front of the figure, the figure will be black in front, as in real life.

Unlike BB's tunnel example, there are lights inside: you can see the overheads and trust me, there's lots of light to see inside (I was working in the hall with sunglasses on).  If the lights had been out, you wouldn't have seen anything inside at all very far beyond the door.

We have 45 pages of messages (mostly on Poser 8) but no-one has yet to post the actual release date... unless of course I missed the note!

I would have thought that a few of the individuals who did work on the program might know the answer..... so what do you say guys? lets cut to the chase and let un know the release date... >;c)

Cheers

vxg139
 

Quote - We have 45 pages of messages (mostly on Poser 8) but no-one has yet to post the actual release date... unless of course I missed the note!

They have not released a release date yet.

Quote - We have 45 pages of messages (mostly on Poser 8) but no-one has yet to post the actual release date... unless of course I missed the note!

I would have thought that a few of the individuals who did work on the program might know the answer..... so what do you say guys? lets cut to the chase and let un know the release date... >;c)

Cheers

vxg139
 

Those that know can only tell what they are allowed to tell. There are NDA to uphold and all. But probably something will be said in siggraph

I want a release date for the date of releasing the information regarding when the release date for Poser 8 will be available.

I know the release date. I was told just 2 days ago. I am not allowed to tell you the release date.

Just so you know, I am trying to be annoying here. :) Trying very hard.

(Note: Edited with juicy tidbit removed.

If you saw it - SAY NOTHING. )

**manoloz,

I hear you, but don't undersand what the big deal is with the secrecy of the release date! I see this as more of a "teaser" and something along the lines of "I know the date and you don't" attitude....

speaking from my end, I am done for now... would  just check w/ google from time to time until I see the program for sale....

cheero...

vxg139**

Quote - **manoloz,

I hear you, but don't undersand what the big geal is with the secrecy of the release date! I see this as more of a "teaser" and something along the lines of "I know the date and you don't" attitude....

speaking from my end, I am done for now, will just wait until check w/ google from time to time...

cheero...

vxg139**

You need to read what I said on this subject several days ago. Go back a few pages and read it. Or, just please stop speculating about teasing.

There is only one reason the release date is not pre-announced.

Because if anything goes wrong, tons of people cry foul, incompetent, boobs.

By the way, the reason I just posted that I know is to tease you, but that's not why SM is doing it.

And the only reason I'm teasing is because a bunch of f'tards have accused SM of teasing. If you had all acted like adults and paid attention to reality and history, I never would have pulled any chains around here.

Why does everybody care about the release date anyway? What do you do differently?

Either you want it or you don't. If you want it, you will get it on or after the release date, regardless of when you found out about it.

Silly - just silly.

Suppose we split into several universes, all of which involve me telling you the release date right now.

Universe A:  I tell you it will release in September.
Universe B: I tell you it will release by end of August.
Universe C: I tell you it will release tomorrow.

In these three universes, which ones do you scream that you didn't get what you wanted? Answer: All.

Among those that will buy it, what will you do differently in Universe A, B, or C?

Among those that do not buy it, what will you do differently?

I'll just say that the day Poser 8 will be released, will be a great day :)

Aw, c'mon, Bill ... it's like not knowing what day Christmas is! ;)

I just realized I was being myself, overly casual and edgy with a dose of profanity, in my post above.

If anybody wants to explain to me again how insulting that is, just keep moving. If I was a nice person and wanted to hang out with nice people, I'd be chatting at RDNA all day. :)

BB
 
I think you might agree that going through all 45 pages to get the info. one needs is neither efficient nor worth the hasstle....

If you don't want to share the release date, that is your prerogative....no skin off my nose...

incidently, your statments like "acted like adults" serves no purpose....

Cheers

vxg139

Here's how this subject went down at RDNA:

• jollyself: Does anyone know when it will hit the streets?
• Traveler: no, not yet. But when they let us know, we will let you know. I am sooooo excited
• jollyself: Excellent!

That was it. The whole subject of release date, teasing, when will we know, why are we not being told, all in those three lines and 4 happy faces. Pretty funny, IMO, what a difference there is between here and there.

Quote - BB
 
I think you might agree that going through all 45 pages to get the info. one needs is neither efficient nor worth the hasstle....

If you don't want to share the release date, that is your prerogative....no skin off my nose...

incidently, your statments like "acted like adults" serves no purpose....

Cheers

vxg139

If you had read, you would see that SM and I were accused of childish games.

Please don't get your panties in a bunch because you can't keep up with the reading.

We also already discussed people complaining about lack of info, simply because they won't read the pages full of info.

It isn't my prerogative either. I am not allowed to say when. Are you able to keep up at all? I'm pretty sure I just wrote that.