What would make this happen?

picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aMvYA_9YvLyOO7ZIKaVz-g
Basically, taking a model in Blender, exported to Wavefront OBJ, import into Poser, a sim/clothify work in cloth room, then rigging in the setup room using the v4 Dev Foundation as a base....create the figure, all works well, except a face or edge or two, here and there dont seem to be grouped, but worse is this big tear?

Ive tried removing double edges in Blender.  Choosing to weld at every point I know in the import/export selections....

Is it a welding issue, or something else?

You can actually see the seams that tear in the default pose, so something ain't right...???
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ru2rRIoxjqIa2jXULdYpbQ
any thoughts?

It may be that you have polygons in groups that do not suit the rig - if for example you have polygons in the chest group that are adjacent to polygons in the shoulder group, and are not completely separated by the collar group, then the mesh will break there.

You should also immediately save the figure to the library and re-load it in a new scene whenever you leave the Setup room.

Hmm...from the pictures I can't tell what's wrong for sure... But yes, the clothing definitely needs the "weld" commands weld-chest:abdomen. The grouping might be the problem(though it looks fine) but my guess is that its the weld command that's missing. The chest is welded to the abdomen and vice-versa in Victoria 4 - from what I can tell from the images, it looks like that didn't happen in the clothing item.

Hand-writing weld commands into the CR2 is something I've never had to do even once for anything I've rigged, I dunno if that's really your problem.  When you save the figure to the library, in my experience that's done for you, whether it's a rig you built from scratch or you're using a "blank" donor rig (which you are, and that's how I rig all my own V4 stuff).  What version of Poser is this?

Quote - Hand-writing weld commands into the CR2 is something I've never had to do even once for anything I've rigged, I dunno if that's really your problem.  When you save the figure to the library, in my experience that's done for you, whether it's a rig you built from scratch or you're using a "blank" donor rig (which you are, and that's how I rig all my own V4 stuff).  What version of Poser is this?

Plz99 is right. Its a rare occasion when you have to make those weld commands yourself. Nothing difficult, mind you. Just rare. And annoying.

So...after using the Clothify feature, and simulating your dynamic clothing to fit on V4, be sure to export the clothing item to your Geometries folder in your Poser runtime. Be SURE you export the OBJ from the correct frame(default export is always frame 1, the beginning of your dynamic cloth where nothing was simulated).

Poser is VERY VERY glitchy. Close the file you were working on. Start a completely new Poser document. Import that same clothing item into the new scene via OBJ import. Uncheck all the options  - it should import just fine as long the item was exported correctly.
Take a look at the scene now. Do you see that the clothing item(currently just a prop) has those mesh distortions? If you do see trouble, then your problem is grouping/welding so ...

...head into the SetupRoom and Remove All Groups. Plug-in V4 Dev Foundation from the content library. Now, try the AutoGroup feature. Should work.

 Hm in my expirience, AutoGroup creates weird groups most of the time. Sure you CAN be lucky and have them fit, but most often not.

I'd rather open the Grouping Tool (or UVMapper or similar) and check that all groups are in fact "unified", meaning there's no stray polygons or something that is in a group where it shouldn't be. Assigning those polygons to their rightful group ought to solve the problem.

Yeah I never do any grouping in Poser either, I do all of that in the modeler.

Yup, I very rarely will edit in a weld statement...only if I am trying to break a Poser rule will I do this.
Make sure you are staying with common Poser grouping methods, make sure you have welded verts in your seams, and that you have correctly edited your joint parameters.

OK, it is a grouping problem.  Thanks for the comments! 

After moving the mouse around the figure in poser, I notice that the Auto-Group grouped the (for example) left collar only about 3/4 around the top, and not connecting under the arm.  (where V4 lcollar goes all the way around) The left shoulder then extends down under the arm to meet the chest.  This is right where it tears when moving the collar up.  I am going to see in Blender if I can load the V4 OBJ and show the groups in a color or something, then load the suit on top, and group it.  I assume the goal here is to get the group seams as close as possible.  (though I have not yet hit the tutorial in Blender on grouping ;-)

Thanks for the comments and tips!  I was sure it was a welding issue, but you pointed me to look at the grouping, and it looks like that is the trick.

Thanks again!

I wouldn't take it for granted that Blender can export an OBJ with polygon groups included in such a way that Poser can read them back in again, although it's certainly worth a try.  In the event that it can't, you can do this in UVmapper as Trekkie mentioned.

Good point...but from what I read, the rigging is what does not work exporting from Blender.  A lot of people seem to model and group in Blender...rig in Poser.

That being said...I am finding difficult t find a way to group in Blender right now, where Ican also see the character groups at the same time..

It seems there should be some method to grouping where you can "see" the character model groups that you are making clothes for "behind" the outfit you are grouping?  For example,"see" what the abdomen group is on V4 while grouping to match on a clothing item?

Is there?

Right, the rigging is all specific to the target application.  COLLADA is neato and all, but it will be a long time before every app embraces a really portable rigging standard and implements it thoroughly and well.

If you give me ~30 minutes I'll give you a couple of bitmaps you can stick on V4/M4 that have different body parts painted in different colors, that's not really hard to do.

Hate for you to go to that trouble, but that is awfully nice to offer! :thumbupboth:

I have not started this process yet, but I think I got it figured out.

**Clothing Grouping to V4 in Poser7
**

1. Load V4 base
2. Load clothing OBJ
3. Change Figure Display Style to Outline
4. Select V4 Body Part that you will be grouping in your clothing (i.e. like "chest" for a shirt)
5. Change Element Display Style to Texture Shaded (this will now display only the V4 group that you are trying to match to in the clothing grouping)
6. Select the prop clothing OBJ
7. Change Element Display Style to Wireframe (now the V4 Body Part will be visible under the wireframe, to make the grouping easier to match)
8. Start grouping the OBJ to match the body part
9. Save often (P7 seems to just want to go away when it has had enough!?), by exporting the OBJ.  Make sure to select ONLY the object in the Select Objects dialog, and choose the option: Include Existing Groups in Polygon Groups (this is so your already created group come back with the re-import)

...though the face/vertex selection is so finicky in Poser, I would still prefer to find out a way to do this in Blender.  I posted a couple of Forum posts over there.  If I hear back, I will follow-up.  I am gonna PM reddog9 as well.  He seems to have a good handle on both!

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Quote - Everything you'll ever need to know...
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Thanks for the (totally unbiased) tip!  :rolleyes:  LOL!

Yeah it turned out to be more than 30 minutes didn't it ;)  I stopped for dinner, sorry.

If you don't feel like spending 30 bucks to answer a pretty simple question (not that you wouldn't get other questions answered there too -  although there is no information on working with the modeler, which is what you're looking for right now) the UVmap is laid out differently from the polygon selections that are done for the rig.  This means I need to do the template you're looking for in two parts, and with a little more screwing around with material zones.  I'll get back to you shortly (maybe an hour at most).

http://sites.google.com/site/fleshforge2/Home/free-stuff/v4-rigging-template

and guess what, you don't have to pay me 30 bucks for that.
edit: incidentally don't think I came up with that technique myself, I got it from Phil Cooke's excellent FREE rigging tutorial:
http://www.philc.net/rigging1.php (3 parts)

Cool!  Thanks, downloaded, and I will definitely be trying this out!

OK, I said if I figured it out in Blender I would post it, so I posted it here:  [LINK]

...and yes, the link is free ;-)

Glad you got it figured out.  Did you manage to get body part polygon selections exported out of Blender and back into Poser?  That wasn't too clear in your blog post.  Anything to avoid Poser's terrible grouping tool - if it had loop select and fill select it would be useful.

@ Paul and 3doutlaw,
this tutorial continues to sell...and a lot. If you aren't interested get over it and move on. I'm glad you figureed out how to do it outlaw. Some folks just learn more by watching someone else do it.
Sheeesh! :blink:

Speaking of getting over it, what's up with the outrage there, your tutorial didn't really have anything to do with his question (how to group his model IN BLENDER).

@darkedge, I apologize, I thought we were all just kidding around, thus the smilies.  You'r right too, watching is more helpful in most cases, in fact @corinthianscori 's  YouTube video's and Omnisuits are what got me more interested in this part of it!  I am just a cheapskate...thus my Blender and DAZ slant.  Poser7 for $49 when I had $10 credit in my Paypal account, I just couldn't pass up, though ;-)

@pjz99, Yes I did.  They key for import/export of groups to/from Blender is making sure to check the option "Polygroups" on both import and export of the Wavefront OBJ.  This maps groups coming in to Blender Vertex Groups, and the same going out.  I mention that, but I dont make a note that this is key for Poser import/export.  I will update that in a bit.

As far as selection tools, it has box, circle, lasso, one-by-one, edge, face...see [HERE]...I dont see a Fill select.  It also allows you to occlude the background too, so you don't select through your mesh (i.e. select the back when trying to get the front) It looks like it does have a way to "fill" a mesh hole when modeling though.

I am just working through the "Noob to Pro" tutorials (about halfway through), so I may be missing something.

Hmm, lack of fill select is pretty poor.  You ought to ask around a bit on Blender-specific forums and see if maybe someone did a script or something that implements it, it's EXTREMELY handy for this kind of thing.  For example, you're grouping a set of gloves - select a loop at the base, select a loop at the knuckle, and "fill select" to get all polys in between.  Without it you're looking at repeating a lot of loop selections, that's tedious.

Ok, back from Blender into Poser and SO CLOSE!!!

[LINK TO PICTURE]

This is vertex edges between rForeArm and rShldr (right on seam of the 2 groups) that only do this using the Up-Down dial on the RShldr...???  Argh!  Any thoughts?  Per Poser, all groups are good, no overlap, nothing in 2 groups...in Blender, all seems well also?  Puzzled...

There is also one Vertex point on the other arm...similar thing, but I figure if I solve this, I will get the other.

That there looks like falloff zone problem to me, a very small part of the mesh is outside of the falloff zone for that particular joint.  If you want I can take a look at the CR2/OBJ, if this doesn't jump out as immediately obvious.  From what you describe I'm pretty sure that's your issue now.

Yep, that was it!  Thanks for the tip!  I used THIS TUT to learn about them, and increased the should Falloff in the Z by just 1 percent, and it all works now!

Awesome, you've been great help!  Thanks again!

Very well, have fun :)

I don't know if this was resolved but in Blender - to export groups with your model - just make every body part a separate mesh item. When you export your model from Blender, the separate mesh items will merge into one mesh object on import into Poser.

Now, the weld statements to get those parts to LOOK like one mesh are entirely up to your rig.

Keep in mind, I only read this as a successful method. I don't know how to use Blender:D I use 3dsMax:D

You should be able to work around that with some combination of import options going into Poser (weld identical vertices I believe).

Yes!

Paolo got some import/export code into the latest Blender for Polygroups, which allows import/export of the groups to/from poser.  Its cool.  I am having a strange grouping problem right now, but its specific to Blender, and unrelated to this thread, so I posted it over in the Blender forum.

Still using ur omnisuit for learning.  I have grouped/rigged it and it works good!  I was trying to add a FBM (since Blender has a nice 1-click Shrinkwrap feature), but that is where I got stuck.  Step-by step!

Paolo
Pret-A-3D (Store @ Renderosity)
3D Ready to Wear.
http://www.preta3d.com

Very good, glad to hear it's working out well.