I am making some conforming clothes for SP4, when I try n use her cr2 for a template V4s unscaled skeleton comes in.  Any ideas what I can do?

thanks for no mocking

John.

According to the Daz product page:

Quote - Built using the same Unimesh as Victoria 4, she can take advantage of many of the products that are also based on Victoria 4 like morphs, poses, and textures. The investment you've made in V4, Aiko 4, V4 Elite, and the Girl 4 pays big dividends with Stephanie 4 Elite.

Since it's built using the same unimesh as V4, that's probably why you get V4 when you try to use the CR2.

it's a pest for sure :)

How are you doing Miss A? hope you are feeling good.

John

Quote - it's a pest for sure :)

How are you doing Miss A? hope you are feeling good.

John

I don't want to hijack your thread, but you can go here to see :)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2806177

Do the morphs change the bone length?

Have you made a new zeroed cr2 just to be sure?  I'd start with a blank viki and then load the morphs separately. 

Quote - Do the morphs change the bone length?

Have you made a new zeroed cr2 just to be sure?  I'd start with a blank viki and then load the morphs separately. 

It does not seem so, which I thought was odd.  I'm not even sure how to apply the scaling in the setup room without messing up the position of the skeleton.

John.

Hmm.  Since I don't have steph I can't help very much.

Is making something for v4 and then using D3D's morph program an option?

I could make it for v4 then convert it :) would have to start again though :(

John.

Tsk, you should know this!  Don't even look at the SP4 CR2 until you're finished.  The bone scaling stuff only works in Poser 8+, I've been putting this info in the readmes for anything I've updated and in several threads - all you do is enable the "Include scales when conforming" checkbox on your conformer the first time you save it to library.  The morphs are just morphs, you handle them however you handled them before.  The "Proportions" dials are bone scale changes, and will automatically be handled in Poser 8+ with that checkbox enabled.  In Poser 7 they generally won't work correctly whatever you do in my experience so I don't bother to try to support both.

Be aware that if you set morphs up to be "Superconforming" then you do NOT use the "Include Morphs when conforming" checkbox.

Look at any of the freebies I've recently updated for examples.

OK I was with up until Tsk :)

So I've imported my cloth item (all nicely grouped), gone to the Setup room and loaded SP4(intending on clearing out the junk later).  The skeleton is completely out of scale here.  I have no idea where "Include scales when conforming" is, or comes into the process.

John.

Feeling thick.

You just ignored what I said.  Don't even look at the SP4 CR2 until you're finished.  Rig with the same V4 CR2 you'd use for anything else for V4 - Stephanie IS V4.

Ok apologies if it seems I am ignoring your words, that's not the case, well not 100% anyway.

I realise that SP4 is V4 in a different guise.  Using the V4 Foundation rig does exactly the same as using the SP4 rig, I get a full sized V4 skeleton and a tiny SP4 size clothing item.

Heeding your words I have redone it with V4 Foundation, and looked hard for a "Include Scaling" option when addint it to my library, but I can't see it.  I'm using Pro2010 btw.

I know I'm just missing something, but I can just not see it, apologies for being thick.

John

Did you do your model around the base V4 OBJ? or around an export of the Stephanie morph?

The "Include scales" checkbox is on the BODY of the figure's Parameter Dials -> Properties.

A recap of modeling and rigging conformers 101:

• ALWAYS MODEL AROUND THE BASE OBJ OF THE CONFORM TARGET
• Do not model around morphs, because your model's geometry will differ enough from the conform target that the donor rig will require a ton of extra adjustment to work with that specific morph, and it won't work the same (or at all) with any other morphs.  Adding fitting morphs will be practically impossible.
  - Do not model around a posed rig, because the joint endpoints of your conformer will require manual adjustment for anything that was bent with the conform target you modeled around.  Shoes are the sole exception - they still require manual adjustment, but the result is worth it (if you can get it to work)
• Do not model around scaled bones.  If you do, when you apply the donor rig, once again you will have to do a lot of manual adjustment of the conformer.

Stephanie 4 is some morphs and scale changes for V4.  So how do you model and rig conforming clothing for Stephanie 4?  You do not, you model and rig it for V4.

I did the model on Stephanie, which looks like it may have been a mistake.  It would be a great shame if that was not possible.

I've spotted the "Include Scales" option, thanks for that, I think I looked everywhere but there :) as is typical when looking for something.

Thanks for the help.

John.

Yes it is a shame, it's why you see almost no clothing that fits really extreme morphs.  If you build any detailed bits into the model, they will get mashed when trying to fit that morph target, and the UVmap will be stretched and squashed all over the place.  You have to find some compromise between uniqueness of design and practicality with the rig and morphs.

Question: how extreme can a morph be before clothing stops working?  

If the morph works for the character, and the conformer fits the character closely, then it can "work" in the conformer just as well - that doesn't mean it will look natural though.  That's the problem with these extreme morphs like She-Freak and The Girl, they are so different from the base morph that fits have to be done by hand, which is an immense piece of work for high poly content with any detail on the mesh - and to make it worse, those morphs will never mix well when blended with other morphs.

If you are modeling for yourself, and you only need the garment to fit one specific morph, then it may not be a big problem.  If you want a garment that is flexible enough to look good on a wide variety of morphs (like buyers expect), then you have to compromise.  That's why I never bothered to add fitting morphs to the Demonatrix suit I did, because all the detail (the rings) just gets mashed, it looks terrible.

If you want to fit a very specific extreme morph that won't be mixed with other morphs, you can do what I did with the Seraphim outfit (before I knew better):  Model around the extreme morph, and then use something like Morphing Clothes in a backwards way, treat the morphed character as the base (export to OBJ) and make the default character's shape into a morph target for the new OBJ.  If it sounds terribly complicated, that's because it is; you end up (after a ton of painful work) with a garment that will only fit the morphed character, but it will fit pretty perfectly and will work with the rig.  However it won't work well with much of any other morphs, and won't even look good with the base character's shape!  I do not recommend this method unless you feel you have no choice.

Tis a great shame, if for no other reason than making the model on the figure it was intended for makes a better mesh than making it for V4 then messing about to get it to fit.

It is however not a lost cause :) because dynamic clothes have no such problems :)  There are still challenges, such as finishing edges and the like, but I think I can make dynamic stuff look pretty good anyway :)

John.

That's a very good point, it is entirely OK to model dynamic clothing around whatever target state the character is going to be in.

Thanks john for asking these questions and Thanks so much for pjz99 for reminding us we can model directly onto the morphed character if it is dynamic.
Very valuable info in this thread.
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