http://youtu.be/JhwuXNv8fJM

http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc

What would happen to Rendo and all other Poser sites when SOPA passes?

What's SOPA?

And what will happen when Internet browsing gets taxed even more by governments?

What is SOPA, may I ask?

Stop online piracy act.

Attached Link: SOPA

Sheesh. Scary! :glare:

The American Congress has made a specialty in the past decade or so of creating and passing bad laws. And never fixing them. The best government money can buy.

Guys this is what SOPA really is "Stop Occulusion Poser Artifacts"

SOPA ain't going to happen. GoDaddy came out in favor and it cost them a ton of business as companies defected their services. Goggle, Amazon and I think Face Book are talking about having a Black day before the vote. Where if you go to their sites you get a message for 24 hours to call your congressman and tell him or her to vote against it. The public outcry is going to be huge against it. The Movie Makers-Film Studios are the ones pushing it is what I have read. The box off numbers in 2011 were pretty dismal. Which I think is two back to back bad years.

So, maybe they need to make better movies? :lol: Dunno. Don't go to movies much. I heard the music industry have also been behind this a bit as well?

Quote - So, maybe they need to make better movies? :lol: Dunno. Don't go to movies much. I heard the music industry have also been behind this a bit as well?

If they could do that they would have years ago . No real talent at the top. For them it seems easier just to buy congress. I hope you're right, Gary. But recent experience says Congress goes where the money is. Elections are a very expensive proposition these days. In two recent elections my little pretty much nowhere Congressional district had the most expensive congressional campaigns in history.

the bill would stop F all - the only thing it would accomplish is further eroding rights, freedoms and privacy for US citizens.

the US is rapidly becoming a police state since 911 - this is just one more step in that direction.

"The box office numbers in 2011 were pretty dismal."

instead of pissing all over the constitution and trying to become the World Police, heres an idea:

1. stop making shit movies that noone wants to see. its been years since a movie came out that made me say 'i must go see this in theatres'.

2. stop charging an arm and a leg for these shit movies. if i take a girl to a movie, by the time you factor in popcorn/drinks/tax im out around $50. 

there was a great concept awhile back where you could buy a 'movie pass' for a month. it would cost about as much as 2-3 movie tickets, and you could use it to go see as many movies as you wanted in that month. it would ensure guaranteed revenue even during a stale month for movies, encourage people to spend more time in the theatre, and keep brutally bad movies from discouraging you from bringing your family back to the theatre anytime soon.

Sigh.

This is what happens when techno idiots try and meddle with geek stuff.

Both the MPAA and RIAA would be in better positions if they both admitted that time has moved on, their business models no longer work, and deal with it (RIAA is used to the vinyl era, where they owned the studios and the presses....ie, had a monopoly. Now all you need is a decent computer, soundboard, and mikes and you can do 90% of what that costly studio did. At a fraction of the cost. All they have now is ad money, which doesn't work with bad performers, and contracts that screw the performer. MPAA broke itself; they hogged every bit of revenue so well the only way the trades could actually make enough to live on is to unionize and get some pay to equal their work. But the 'Hollywood Mystique' pushed the cost of living so high that it became cheaper to go to Canada or overseas...which opened up the can of worms about ease of access to finished footage to backers. And hence ripping and posting of unreleased films. Oops).

But these two cliques sure can buy the idiot politicians which seem to find it some kind of bubba cache to claim they don't no shit about the internet, but they know how to regulate what they can't even comprehend. For it they did, they would know that the net is designed to route around damage....or crush it. None of these weenies seem to grasp the idea that the net has pretty much ignored them because they weren't relevant. If they make themselves relevant, they will draw the ire of the black, gray, and white hats. And =those= people have the ability to strip any politico you want to name to the bone and make every dirty deal ever recorded public.

This is just more of their 'We can't do anything right, so we'll take on a soft target so we look righteous before election!' nonsense. Hopefully someone gets the idea that the target isn't soft before they find out the hard way.... 

Attached Link: http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc

...but IN REALITY its just an excuse for what they really want is to control the internet through DNS blocking that will cause a multitude of technical problems, doesn't work and will stiffle innovation, FREE SPEECH and fair competition.

I haven't given SOPA much thought but it seems they're fighting against the current instead of going with the flow.  The comedian Louis CK had the right idea when he released his last standup special.  He bypassed the production companies and sold the special directly on the internet for 5 bucks through PayPal.  No registration, legal disclaimer or any such BS.  Just a friendly request that people wouldn't steal it.

Attached Link: http://www.examiner.com/independent-in-salt-lake-city/obama-signs-ndaa-into-law-dismantles-bill-of-r

Many say that SOPA will not happen well if NDAA got in.... you feel me?

He said he wouldn't allow the military to detain Americans, but signed it into law. Can you say "forked tongue"? If you believe ANYTHING an American politician says these days, you have not been paying attention to what they do.

When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

When did stealing works that you didn't think have any artistic merit become ethical?

When did downloading a ripped CD for free because the quota of Good songs to Crap songs didn't meet some mystical level become Just?

The reason our politicians are corrupt is because we are corrupt.

The reason our politicians are hypocrites is because we are hypocites.

Do you honestly think that Google, Amazon and Facebook are against this bill because of altruistic reasons or, are they against this bill because it will cost them money to implement and effect their bottom lines?

Not ever bill is an evil design to control the world.

Sorry for the blather, Have a great New Year.

Quote - When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

When did stealing works that you didn't think have any artistic merit become ethical?

When did downloading a ripped CD for free because the quota of Good songs to Crap songs didn't meet some mystical level become Just?

The reason our politicians are corrupt is because we are corrupt.

The reason our politicians are hypocrites is because we are hypocites.

Do you honestly think that Google, Amazon and Facebook are against this bill because of altruistic reasons or, are they against this bill because it will cost them money to implement and effect their bottom lines?

Not ever bill is an evil design to control the world.

Sorry for the blather, Have a great New Year.

While I don't entirely disagree with your post, I will point out that Mussolini made the trains run on time. That does not excuse the rest of the stuff.

ejp01:  wow.

have you actually READ the bill or are you just making a totally uninformed comment based on the opinion that 'piracy is bad mmkay'?  this is the exact form of passivity and ignorance that has allowed politicians to systematically turn Britain into a nanny state - with the US rapidly following suit.

stripping rights, freedoms and privacy from law abiding citizens under the guise of reducing crime is a travesty.

you avatar is epic ironic, btw :P

Well if we want to talk about the US becoming a police state...

I really think we as a nation are on the wrong track when it comes to personal liberties.  But when we keep electing the same idiots on both sides, it can't be helped.

Congressional term limits are needed.

This is the way to steal freedom little, by little right under the noses of the people.  Bills like these are the way rights and freedoms can be taken because they go undetected and by the time it happens it's too late. People will notice troops deployed to the streets and marshall law a lot faster in the removal of their freedoms but insert such loss of freedoms inside lawyer and political speak and no one gives a care because it's too hard to understand.

Anyone who is a student of American politics knows that bills that come to the floor of Congress are not "clean".  Attched to a bill is all this cycle babble and attachments with a million other things on it. Another words in order for the main bill to pass Congressmen and Senators must also accept the other crap within the bill and there is no doubt that this bill has more things in it than we see.

The more ignorant and apathetic a people are about their government the more likely their freedoms will be infringed upon. Our politicans are corrupt not because of our own corruption but because many of us turn a blind eye and do not want to be bothered with the workings of our government because it's "boring".  Look at the history of man and you'll see the most vile governments of the world have stripped the freedoms away from their people under the guise of national security, fighting crime and safety for their populus.

What he said!

Quote - the bill would stop F all - the only thing it would accomplish is further eroding rights, freedoms and privacy for US citizens.

the US is rapidly becoming a police state since 911 - this is just one more step in that direction.

 

"The box office numbers in 2011 were pretty dismal."

instead of pissing all over the constitution and trying to become the World Police, heres an idea:

1. stop making shit movies that noone wants to see. its been years since a movie came out that made me say 'i must go see this in theatres'.

2. stop charging an arm and a leg for these shit movies. if i take a girl to a movie, by the time you factor in popcorn/drinks/tax im out around $50. 

there was a great concept awhile back where you could buy a 'movie pass' for a month. it would cost about as much as 2-3 movie tickets, and you could use it to go see as many movies as you wanted in that month. it would ensure guaranteed revenue even during a stale month for movies, encourage people to spend more time in the theatre, and keep brutally bad movies from discouraging you from bringing your family back to the theatre anytime soon.

Here is an article I recently read by Mythbusters co-host Adam Savage

Quote - > Quote - When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

When did stealing works that you didn't think have any artistic merit become ethical?

When did downloading a ripped CD for free because the quota of Good songs to Crap songs didn't meet some mystical level become Just?

The reason our politicians are corrupt is because we are corrupt.

The reason our politicians are hypocrites is because we are hypocites.

Do you honestly think that Google, Amazon and Facebook are against this bill because of altruistic reasons or, are they against this bill because it will cost them money to implement and effect their bottom lines?

Not ever bill is an evil design to control the world.

Sorry for the blather, Have a great New Year.

 

While I don't entirely disagree with your post, I will point out that Mussolini made the trains run on time. That does not excuse the rest of the stuff.

Piracy is a service problem. Improve your service better than the pirates and piracy will be gone forever.

And these companies themselves distributed the piracy software and DRM removal tools to create an illusion of piracy then use it as a smoke screen to control the internet.

Check out the youtube videos I posted and do your own research if you really are serious of understanding the problem.

Quote - When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

Where in the constitution does it say that the government can ignore constitutional rights (such as trial by jury) whenever it pleases?

In order to post on this, reading the links and listening to the videos really make the difference between looking at this proposed legislation from a non-geek congressman who is in the pockets of the special interest groups who want this passing and seeing this for what it really is: a completely misguided effort with no insight as to what the long-term effects will be. Will it even slow down piracy? No.

"Unfortunately, the things a browser does to bypass a criminal site will also defeat SOPA’s scheme for blocking pirate sites. SOPA envisions the AG telling ISPs to block the address of www.piracy.com. So the browsers get no information about www.piracy.com from the ISP’s DNS server. Faced with silence from that server, the browser will go into fraud-prevention mode, casting about to find another DNS server that can give it the address. Eventually, it will find a server in, say, Canada. Free from the Attorney’ General’s jurisdiction, the server will provide a signed address for piracy.com, and the browser will take its user to the authenticated site."

Great. Good move, SOPA. And DNSSEC being disabled won't help, either.

Lets keep in mind, political threads are not allowed in the forum. I'm giving this a chance, if the political talk keeps on I will lock this thread. 

Thanks guys.

Quote - When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

When did stealing works that you didn't think have any artistic merit become ethical?

When did downloading a ripped CD for free because the quota of Good songs to Crap songs didn't meet some mystical level become Just?

The reason our politicians are corrupt is because we are corrupt.

The reason our politicians are hypocrites is because we are hypocites.

Do you honestly think that Google, Amazon and Facebook are against this bill because of altruistic reasons or, are they against this bill because it will cost them money to implement and effect their bottom lines?

Not ever bill is an evil design to control the world.

Sorry for the blather, Have a great New Year.

In principle, I totally agree. I get sick of hearing all these lame excuses that are nothing more than reasons for people to justify theft. I would love to have the government tell google that they can't have illegal torrent sites show up on a search page whenever you do a search for anything, that in itself would be a very welcome change.

I can totally see how it can get out of hand though. Just like any kind of enforcement, what measures are there to keep the enforcer in line? Also, if there is no way to enforce this globally, it is pointless as much of the piracy comes from countres that have governments that could care less about copyright.

Quote - Piracy is a service problem. Improve your service better than the pirates and piracy will be gone forever.

Nope, piracy is an ethics and morality problem.

Robyn, I think that begs the question... why even pass the thing if it isn't going to do a thing to slow piracy and when no one knows what the effects are?  Who's paying for this bill to be passed?

I've seen my hard work up on warez sites... I've spent over two and a half years developing vertical market software (FoxPro-based) only to have someone who had not bought the software (not on our user-base) have the audacity to ring me for support.

I hate piracy. But I treasure freedom more.

First, NetFlix had to back down in the face of a rebellion from their customers, then Bank of America had to drop their debit card surcharge; now, Verizon ‘s new fee has been rescinded in a matter of a day or so and GoDaddy is feeling the heat. The ability of individuals to come together via the internet & pressure corporations is something new. I think the SOPA thing may be the first real case where the phenomenon has really struck a nerve re. the unholy alliance between the pols and their corporate paymasters – something that should have happened along time ago. The encouraging thing is that this is not one of the traditional left vs. right issues. Both conservatives and liberals have come out against it.

If SOPA is killed (and not replaced by the same thing in different clothing), people may feel empowered – and then who knows what might happen. OTOH, they could just go back to sleep as they usually do. Google et al may be temporary allies but they will gladly buy votes on equally distasteful legislation that suits them. It would be far too big a stretch to compare the anti SOPA revolt to the ‘Arab Spring,’ etc. but maybe, just maybe people are starting to awaken to the fact that they can change the way things have always been, beyond just sitting back or accepting the illusion of democracy inherent in a system where both parties are beholden to moneyed interests.

It is not that people are complacent. People have voted the "rascals" out many times recently. Supposedly, the political landscape of Washington has completely changed repeatedly. And yet most things stay the same there. Most changes are the in words, rather than deeds. It is not that people have failed to try to change things. It would appear that their will is being ignored. If you understand how Washington, and the country really work, that should not come as a surprise.

Quote - It is not that people are complacent. People have voted the "rascals" out many times recently. Supposedly, the political landscape of Washington has completely changed repeatedly. And yet most things stay the same there. Most changes are the in words, rather than deeds. It is not that people have failed to try to change things. It would appear that their will is being ignored. If you understand how Washington, and the country really work, that should not come as a surprise.

Disheartening... but, good point.

My take on this stuff.

I am not convinced that those people are really illegal users; I think that lot of them are just hoarders who collect software. How could you explain otherwise sites were you find side by side Houdini Master cracked for network use (10K$ per copy) and LuxRender (yes, the open source thing that you can download for free) or Dosch products side by side with ShareCG freebies? B.t.w. a couple of days ago I found on a warez site... Antonia :lol: (which was the reason for my monitoring).

I think that US people have worse problems than SOPA. Those provisions for military internment of US citizens, without time limit, without any check by juries/judges, without recourse to legal support, on nothing more than unverified "national security needs" (which can easily be faked by agencies like the NSA) are much worse. Up to now the "its like Nazi Germany" was some kind of hyperbole; now, these provisions are the mirror of the ones enacted at the start of dictatorship on which the concentration camp system was established. If you check "patriot" websites you see lots of "deranged talk"; one item at a time, those you-should-take-your-medications (using a favourite Renderosity do-not-attack-other-users expression) items become Executive Orders or laws. B.t.w. SOPA could also be used to a political purpose: an Occupy-Something website is stuffed by pirated movies by NSA operatives, an "informer" notifies the authorities and the website is taken down not for political reasons (something that happens only in dictatorships :sneaky:) but for copyright violations.

It is like living in a 1980's movie (Jena Pliskin? Call me Jena).

P.S.: 1-somebody says that something isn't right, 2-somebody then makes theories of why things are happening, 3-somebody provides his solutions. Agreeing almost completely on point 1 does not imply agreeing on point 2 or even more on point 3.

"...I think that lot of them are just hoarders who collect software."

I tend to agree. Look at the tons of Poser stuff that people have here, either free or bought and paid for that they have never used and probably much of it they will never use :-) It's also impossible to quantify the actual loss, considering that many of the "users" couldn't have bought it anyway. It's also impossible to know to what degree illegal user's positive word of mouth may actually generate some sales. None of that is to attempt to negate the legal/moral aspects of the issue, just that it's no simple equation.

One can argue that movies and music are different in that people are more likely to actually consume them than they are to learn and use complex software. Even there though, when I read about the huge collections of mp3's and movies some people have downloaded, I wonder how much of their hoards they actually view or listen to.

Once laws are enacted, they are almost never revoked, even when the 'danger' that led to them has passed (if it ever really justifed them to begin with). If administrations are willing to tap their opponent's phones and burgle their offices when it was illegal, what can one expect when they have the authority to do it? It's not a matter of inherently bad people necessarily. Good people will always be tempted to justify their actions in the name of security, order, profit etc. Unfortunately, too many people seem to have the atitude that as long as they're not doing anything illegal (yet), the gov't should have the power to do just about anything to catch thepeople who are. I think that a lot of people in power in places besides N. Korea may see the internet as a potential threat that needs to be controlled - for our own good of course.

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Quote -
instead of pissing all over the constitution and trying to become the World Police, heres an idea:

1. stop making shit movies that noone wants to see. its been years since a movie came out that made me say 'i must go see this in theatres'. 

Good luck with that. Most studios aim for the lowest common denominator, in order to maximize the profit margin. They don't give a crap about artistic merit; they only care about ROI. I mean, hell, when even IFC stuffs its schedule with Malcolm In The Middle reruns to fill time, you know the movie industry has gone to shit.

The grandest irony is, Hollywood itself was founded by what many shills today would call intellectual property pirates. Folks got tired of paying Edison to rent cameras, rent film, rent studio equipment, etc... so they moved to LA where they could make and sell movies without having to pay royalties to Edison for his patented bits. 

=======

Quote - When did access to stolen goods become a Constitutional right?

Here's your problem: legally, it's not theft. The owner isn't deprived of the good in question, as it is merely copied.  Is it right? Only under certain restricted circumstances (e.g. fair use), but even using it wrongly (e.g. passing around copies) is not theft. That's why copyright infringement is a civil matter and not a criminal one (unless profits from bootleg sales are involved, but even in that case it's counted as fraud, not theft).

Quote - When did stealing works that you didn't think have any artistic merit become ethical?

Again, you misuse the terms, and now you confuse it with ethics. It is unethical to violate copyright, and is certainly open to litigation, but it is not theft.

Quote - The reason our politicians are corrupt is because we are corrupt.

Bullshit. Until the day comes where I would sell my integrity and principles for kickbacks, bribes and junkets, I'll happily label your statement as nothing more than sophomoric posturing.

Quote - Do you honestly think that Google, Amazon and Facebook are against this bill because of altruistic reasons or, are they against this bill because it will cost them money to implement and effect their bottom lines?

It will effect everyone's bottom line: ISP fees will go up to account for the increased policing. All it takes is for someone to file a complaint, and poof - down goes a website or a user. Tell me that won't be abused. Oh, wait, SOPA's daddy, the DMCA, is already abused quite frequently.

Innocent parties will certainly be penalized without evidence or even notice. Don't believe me, take a gander at this. The link details how 84,000 innocent websites were labeled as being sources of pedophilic content... courtesy of the US Government.

Seriously, dude... remove your head from your nether regions and do some research.

Quote -
I hate piracy. But I treasure freedom more.

This, right here, sums it up beautifully.

Good luck, guys.  Our own government seems to be leading in the stupidity stakes with this one and has already passed laws that are unfair, unworkable and in every respect plain dumb.

Quote - The ability of individuals to come together via the internet & pressure corporations is something new.

But then again, this is congress and not the corporations we are talking about.  Congressmen on both sides of the isle have incredible egos and an ability to block things like what the people are asking for out.  In a way, they kind of have to given the difficulties of getting elected and the fact you've always got both sides demanding your attention over every matter.

This is where the lobbists and campaign donations come in.  Money talks and getting 50k-100k towards your next run at office (or the spouse getting a high paying job she normally wouldn't be qualified for) ends up having a large effect on how things play out.

"But then again, this is congress and not the corporations we are talking about."

Pretty much a distinction without a difference these days :-) When the soopremes  OKed unlimited corporate bribery, that pretty hammered home the final nail. Capitalism has many benefits. We (the Allies) probably wouldn't have won WWII without the US industrial base that it created. Capitalism without bounds however is a nightmare.

"Our own government seems to be leading in the stupidity stakes" 

LOL I used to think that the Brits were pretty sensible 'til I read years ago about the 'Video Nasties,' banning groaty old horror films to 'protect' the public.  Much of the 'West' seems bent on a reactioin binge lately - right wing, neo-fascist parties gaining etc. The economy doesn't help. People afraid for their economic survival seem to be more easily gulled by that type of thing. 

Has anyone realized that with the military now allowed to drag people out in the middle of the night, without restraint, almost absolute power rests in the hand of their commander in chief? Did anyone notice the so-called opposition party didn't seem to have a problem with that?

Quote - Has anyone realized that with the military now allowed to drag people out in the middle of the night, without restraint, almost absolute power rests in the hand of their commander in chief? Did anyone notice the so-called opposition party didn't seem to have a problem with that?

Just curious: is this the natural next step in what started with the "Patriot Act"?

Some would say that is the next step in being able to kill an american traitor in another country via a drone strike.

As for the republicans, I've got no idea why they allowed that bill to pass.  IMO Bonehead and the house leadership are too much of establishment types.

Before terrorists and patriotic act were the Commies, before the Commies were the Nazis, before the Nazis were the Indians. Nothing has changed.

Democracy?, what is that ????

Here are the groups that support SOPA.  Maybe as individuals we should reevaluate whether or not we should patronize them.

Quote - Before terrorists and patriotic act were the Commies, before the Commies were the Nazis, before the Nazis were the Indians. Nothing has changed.

Democracy?, what is that ????

Before the thread is locked (and it most definitely will be, as per the "No Politics" rule)...

Democracy is a sham.  A sop to the public to make them feel they are actually taking part in the decision making process, when all that really happens is we get more of the same, time and again.

As Winston Churchill (is rumoured to have) said: Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.

Quote - As Winston Churchill (is rumoured to have) said: Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.

So he decided to try more "other things".