New computer, and from the beginning nothing but trouble with getting Windblows to recognize anything.  Half an hour wasted on the phone trying to activate windblows7, because the product key didn't work, about what I'd expect from micro$oft.

Kensington Expert Mouse, don't bother, it messes something up and openGL won't work.  Removing their software eliminated that problem.

Installed older trackball, now windblows can't find it's butt with both hands and a roadmap.  I have to pull the computer out of the cabinet, unplug the mouse and plug it back in before it knows it's got a mouse.  Again, what I'd expect from windblows.

Control panel is an absolute bloody mess, I don't want web pages, I want the damned controls. HEY MICRO$OFT!  There are people that can still read, outside of your damned offices!

Progress, micro$oft style, : make changes toward total uselessness gradually but consistantly.

New kensington mouse, without their software, is a two button mouse with scroll wheel, and nothing more.  The older Mouseworks doesn't run in windblows 7, ten buttons and a scroll wheel, and you have a three button mouse without it. 

"Progress" = pure extract of male bovine excrement.

Looking forward to your thoughts on Windows 8. (grinning)

Quote - Looking forward to your thoughts on Windows 8. (grinning)

LINUX!

I leave off the "male" from the bovine excrement as I find the dual Bull/Cow interchangability to be useful.

I have a new Win 7 Machine and luckily I've had no hardware problems. LOTS of access problems etc. And you are correct about the annoying removal of "Control" fom the control panel. 

Sorry to hear you are having such problems, I guess I must have been lucky.  Like you I went to Windows 7 with a new PC, mainly for the benefit of using 64 bit programs.  I use a combination of a Logitech G110 keyboard (so I can use the extra shortcut keys and illumuination) a Logitech marble rollerball and a 3D connection navigator and they all seem to work well together.

In the year I have been using it I have come to like W7 and it a lot better than XP (I skipped Vista) completely.  The only thing I could not get to work with it is a HP scanner that I had ppurchased about 18 months before, although I am sure it could work if HP bothered to write some Windows 7 drivers.

I have yet to see any version of windblows that works like the lying admen say it will.  No, it's never easier, and never cheaper, because with every new version, some of my hardware becomes "obsolete", like gates brain, if he ever had one.  With every new version or even update, control over the computer and what it can do transfers to the programmer, leaving the end user with few or no options. 

The first thing I do with every new computer is find the preloaded software and unload it.  I don't use micro$haft office, and why I can't buy a computer without that piece of crap installed, I have no idea.  Plus a lot of other crap they stick in it, almost always a 30 day test after which it ceases to work, so finding all of that and getting rid of it has to be included. 

Pushing the F1 key used to bring up a help file, now it wants to connect to the internet, which it is not even connected to, this is the biggest, worst, I won't say mistake, because I don't believe it is, they ever made. 

Control panel, "We've determined that you want one of several presets we think you want, what you want doesn't matter."  I don't want the screen to look like something Atari put out with their game units, I want a screen I can work with. 

And to get my XP unit to quit putting the micro$crap sounds in, I had to find the sounds and delete them from the computer.  Otherwise every time I started the blasted thing, I was greeted with the sound of micro$oft saying it's gonna crash again. 

Maybe they should try asking people that aren't still in kindergarten what they want.

I tend to agree with you, Precisionxxx. I have my laptop set up as dual-boot windows/Ubuntu. Installed Windows first because it's the dumber (read: more arrogant) of the two OSes. Installing a network printer in Win7 home premium: 22 mins, 30 seconds. Took longer than with XP. In Linux?

-- Finds the Network Printer
-- Identifies the brand
-- goes to a central repository, downloads and installs drivers

Total time? 3 minutes, roughly.

When I first installed the OS, it found all my hardware, the internet, etc, all by itself.

Oh, and the most profound irritation: how many families have home networking? How many families have Win Home Premium? Win 7 HPrem does not support router-based networking. WTF??? What century is M$ living in? This should be a STANDARD feature in Windows7 starter (like on my netbook) on UP. Is Windows so bereft of features that they have to make networking a PRO feature? That's bloody nonsense.

So, I have a script that runs in Startup that forms the connections. Works most of the time. :glare:

I doubt that Win8 will improve this lack, but I'm willing to be taken by surprise, there.

If you have hardware that the OEM drivers mess things up, manually install a generic driver for it. Chances are fairly good that it will work that way.

The Control Panel also has an option to set it up so everything shows like it did in XP, some of the things are named differently thou.

If you want a quick way to get to most of the settings in Windows 7, you can make a shortcut that brings most of them up on the same screen at once.

Create a shortcut on the desktop.

Put this in the as the target.

C:Windowsexplorer.exe shell:::{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}

And have it start in the Windows directory. IE: C:Windows

When you Open it, you will get an All Tasks Explorer window with most of the system settings shortcuts in the right pane.

"Installing a network printer in Win7 home premium: 22 mins, 30 seconds."

what?

last time I installed a printer took seconds. find printer on network. add printer. printer installs drivers. printer works.

windows 7. took seconds.

not sure what the error was you had there....

I still use Win XP 32 bit..Tried Win7 but uninstalled it.. Good Luck!

Win8?  Something wrong with Win7 they are going to update already?

I found through lots of trial and error, Google searches, and cuss words that Win 7  works way better with mice, keyboards and ( in my case) Wacom Tablets if you turn off all the Aero stuff, including all those annoying widgets on the desktop.   What worked for me was to go into the Control Panel then click System->Advanced System Settings->Advanced tab->under "performance" click Settings. Finally make sure the "adjust for best performance" option is selected.

It aslo helps to set the appearence to look like Classic Windows in the Personalize section of the Control Panel ( under basic and high contrast themes). 

Win7 64 bit? Works like a dream. Half the price twice as fast. I wonder if all these people bashing and lie about Microsoft know all the havoc they make. I mean convincing some poor beginner to start with Ubuntu :(. In addition to that everything works faster and is more stable all new programs and features come to windows first. To take just one example of many-Pixologic will not support goz on Blender & Linux. If I didn't have goz I kill myself..Marvelous Designer come to Linux/Mac after two(2) years.. and so on and so forth.

Quote - Win7 64 bit? Works like a dream. Half the price twice as fast. I wonder if all these people bashing and lie about Microsoft know all the havoc they make. I mean convincing some poor beginner to start with Ubuntu :(. In addition to that everything works faster and is more stable all new programs and features come to windows first. To take just one example of many-Pixologic will not support goz on Blender & Linux. If I didn't have goz I kill myself..Marvelous Designer come to Linux/Mac after two(2) years.. and so on and so forth.

Until they get an ignore button, unsubscribed.

Quote - New computer, and from the beginning nothing but trouble with getting Windblows to recognize anything.  Half an hour wasted on the phone trying to activate windblows7, because the product key didn't work, about what I'd expect from micro$oft.

So where was the computer guy during all this?

Vizio (the guys behind the high-quality, low-cost LCD TVs) are making a line of PCs that come with Windows, and ONLY Windows, no pre-loaded bovine/equine excrement. We'll have to wait and see how well they perform, as they are a little ways off from the market. They've been showing them off at CES2012.

In the store, 20 miles away.  MY third computer with windblows 7, and I don't expect it will take me any less time to finally get it working, somewhat.  The computer itself is fine, nothing wrong with that.  It's windblows causing the problems.  That and My using kensington trackballs, they've got their own software, without which the new trackballs don't have a middle button.  Went to a scroll ring, which I don't know if I like or not, to get the middle button, I had to put on an older version of the trackball.  To get that, I had to take from another computer, replacing that one with an even older one which without a serial port of the multi pin type, works with nothing.  Got it working kindasorta, but I know I'm looking at about three months at least to get it working stable. That old Expert Mouse has to be fifteen years old now, still working fine, but just a two button mouse.  It's on the online box, so no biggie there.

If it hadn't been an I7, I would have installed XP-64 Pro from the dead computer, but that won't support a quad core. 

Customers back in the 1990s that used Kensington trackballs are always a returning pain for computer guys.

Quote - Win7 64 bit? Works like a dream. Half the price twice as fast. I wonder if all these people bashing and lie about Microsoft know all the havoc they make. I mean convincing some poor beginner to start with Ubuntu :(. In addition to that everything works faster and is more stable all new programs and features come to windows first. To take just one example of many-Pixologic will not support goz on Blender & Linux. If I didn't have goz I kill myself..Marvelous Designer come to Linux/Mac after two(2) years.. and so on and so forth.

Your dream, my nightmare.  One full day and I've managed to install Poser, Wings and Open Office.  The rest of the time, trying to find my way through the incomprehensible mess they made out of the control panel.

I've hated windblows since 3.1, and they haven't made it any better, it just keeps getting worse.

Go back to your CP/M.

Quote - Customers back in the 1990s that used Kensington trackballs are always a returning pain for computer guys.

Never had any problems with conflicts until XP, then leaving the mouseworks out, just use it as a three button serial worked.  The latest Expert Mouse, without their software, it's a two button mouse, unsuitable for Wings.  Physically, they changed that too, and it's not as nice to use. 

But most of the problems I'm going to have are going to be basically from not being able to find things in the control panel.  even worse, the way it comes up.  Lousy is a good word.

Quote - Go back to your CP/M.

I have SuSe Linux on standby.  Done that before.

xp 64 supports 2 physical processors, unlimited core count, and 128 gigabyte of ram. It will run on any I7 if you can find drivers for the newer hardware. Most 2003 server drivers work in it, and some of the newer server drivers work as well.

Not sure where you are getting the info that it won't support the cores. The 2 number is the number of actual processors on the motherboard.

Take the hard drive out of your old system with the xp64 install on it, put it in your new system and boot it up into safe mode. Go into the device manager and delete everything out of it that pertains to the motherboard, then reboot it normally and let it set it self back up.

Quote - If it hadn't been an I7, I would have installed XP-64 Pro from the dead computer, but that won't support a quad core. 

Forgot to mention, obviously, unhook the Windows 7 drive while you are doing all of that.

shvrdavid,

You are entirely right. I always have my system disk backed up by an Acronis disk image. Now and then I restore from backup and get a pristine system, precisely as if god had installed it. It is not virus I am afraid of, it is myself. I regulary  download and test all kinds of beta software. If I get a new computer I do exactly as you described, never have had to completely reinstall system and all the programs for several years. (thank you Microsoft!) I like to se people try that trick on a linux or mac computer...

(Edit:except that I don't use my old hard disk I transfer the system to the new computer with Acronis)

I installed Windows XP on my system back in 2008.  I'm on it about 8 hours a day.  Never got a virus or had to re-partition or re-install Windows on it.  Only used Carbonite once or twice to retrieve a file I decided I needed still after deleting.  I'm always uninstalling apps I don't use anymore and downloading updates to existing apps I still use.  I haven't updated drivers on this thing in over 5 years.

I do pogramming, Internet browsing, publishing, video/audio watching/editing, 3D rendering, RTS, FPS, and RPG gaming on this thing.  Never a crash unless I do something recursive on it by mistake like planting too many trees on my landscapes.  I'm behind a Cisco firewall.  My old trusty Linksys wasn't compatible with my new cable modem I had to upgrade to last year for IPv6 blah blah.

Got part of it now, but turning off a lot of the windblows7 "features" to make it work.  Going to make it harder for me to use, I had to turn off the mouse tails, and sometimes have problems finding the cursor.  I do have eye problems.  Haven't figured out why the  Kensington software screws openGL, but I won't be buying another new Expert Mouse, or their other one either.  Weird part is the pen software works fine, I'd think if anything was going to cause a problem, it would.  

I'm glad I'm not a programmer trying to figure out windows.  That has to be the worlds most frustrating work. 

 I was a windows programmer for 20 years and it was great fun. Supporting the users instead of hating them, as Unix system administrators usually do. BTW Microsoft was chosen "The Best Place in the World to Work" 2011

http://moneyland.time.com/2011/11/01/the-best-place-in-the-world-to-work/

Perhaps you have been trying to program a UNIX computer? Microsoft is WYSIWYG, that stands for "What You Get Is What You See".  UNIX is YAFIYGI, that stands for "You Asked for It, You Got It". An old operating system by nerds for nerds that haven't been updated in 30 years.

Knowing something about what you are talking about is obviously too much to ask for.

Quote - I'm glad I'm not a programmer trying to figure out windows.  That has to be the worlds most frustrating work. 

Opposite of that.

If you had read about my difficulties building the Poser library, you would know that it is the Mac that sucks ass. I had the Windows stuff working on all the flavors of Windows, old and new, in no time. I then spent 5 months trying to get the correct behavior on the Mac systems, even though supposedly they are all the same.

I'm behind on the times.. but I guess it's still cool and "clever" to put a dollar sign in Microsoft's name?

.... anyway, I've got Win7 Ultimate, and I'm using it with some older software and devices, and I'm not having any issues.

Heck, my old Tektronix phaser printer even works on it. :D Even though it's been reduced (mainly) to the role of being a footrest.

It's even easier in Linux and Unix.

Delete one file, insert a rescan system command as a run on next boot event, away you go...

After it boots up, check the repository for additional approved drivers. Done...

I am not sure how it works on a Mac, but I would assume you can do it similar to the way you do it in Linux/Unix.

Quote - shvrdavid,

You are entirely right. I always have my system disk backed up by an Acronis disk image. Now and then I restore from backup and get a pristine system, precisely as if god had installed it. It is not virus I am afraid of, it is myself. I regulary  download and test all kinds of beta software. If I get a new computer I do exactly as you described, never have had to completely reinstall system and all the programs for several years. (thank you Microsoft!) I like to se people try that trick on a linux or mac computer...

(Edit:except that I don't use my old hard disk I transfer the system to the new computer with Acronis)

Not a programmer, at least not since I retired and didn't have to write Cordax routines in CMAP anymore.  Know several, programmed for windows, and they all run linux in their home machines. 

As far as what you see is what you get, that includes the BSD, or a computer completely hung up and no way to tell it to back up and start again.  I know windblows is favored in most business apps, which means nothing to the average user, but because it will allow so little to be done with it.  (The BSD was replaced by a totally non responsive computer, now all you can do is turn it off and restart.) 

Doesn't really matter, in about three or four months I'll finally get the damned thing running at least partially.  Either that or it will take the steps down the ladder in one jump, from w7 to linux and nothing but Open Office in it.  It's about time for the old box now serving that purpose to take a dump anyhow.  At least it runs and doesn't give me a bunch of trouble to try to figure out.

This is my last post I don't want this to develop into a long thread that eventually is shut down by a moderator. You can argue about everything. For me a guy who choose a operating system that is used by less that 1% of the people has already defined himself as a person by this very act.

I use the trackball works driver with windows 7 home premium/64bit and the expert mouse. Up to now everything seemed to work (3 buttons + ring, i do not use the upper left button very much, because it is not so easily reachable). The driver is version 1.04, if this is of any help.

Quote - I'm behind on the times.. but I guess it's still cool and "clever" to put a dollar sign in Microsoft's name?

The $ sign is from the old Fido BBS mail days (and before) when Apple ][e users thought their DOS 3.3, Printshop, Zork, and Bankstreet Writer were the bomb.

Quote - in about three or four months I'll finally get the damned thing running at least partially.

My turn-around time for fixing someone's computer is 24 hours or less.

Quote - I like to se people try that trick on a linux or mac computer...

Linux:

1. plug in your backup media to computer with new (and empty) disk drive

2. load your linux cd as a "live" distro, and mount both the new disk and the backup media (takes a click or two, and Ubuntu automatically mounts them)

3. open a terminal and type:

dd if="/mounted/backup-media" of="/mounted/new-disk-drive"

1. reboot, remove backup media and live CD, and you're done.

Mac:

1. plug in backup media to computer w/ new disk drive

2. boot machine, then select Disk Utility to restore from backup.

ref: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1553

Note that both OSes include everything in the operating system to do this, without having to buy a third-party application suite (e.g. Acronis) or somesuch.

Done.

I see that the Linux guys continue to argue. That makes one wonder. What do the Linux guys really want?

?

I think I know the answer. "They Want To be Taken Seriously"

But that will never happen. ;)

Quote -   For me a guy who choose a operating system that is used by less that 1% of the people has already defined himself as a person by this very act.

And that makes the other 99% a target market?  Or just a statistic?

All I want is an os that will do what it's supposed to do, be an operating system, not a kludge of "take over the world".

Oh, yeah.  Being able to find the mouse might be handy, which until I pull the computer out of the desk, unplug the mouse and plug it in again, it can't.  Ain't the mouse, it works fine on my laptop, and on this old Pentium 4 on XP.  Tried moving it, didn't help. 

Be interesting to know why I have one w7 box that works fine, and two that don't.  None of them have ever been allowed near the internet, and they won't be until they're the obsolete one.  Same problems, setup is no different from the one that works. well, maybe 33% isn't a bad average for windblows.

Quote - > Quote - in about three or four months I'll finally get the damned thing running at least partially.

My turn-around time for fixing someone's computer is 24 hours or less.

Milwaukee PC doesn't do setup.  They install windows, what you do with it then is on your own.  And it's a twenty mile drive in for me, but the alternative is Wal-Mart, and their average three to four month turnaround.  No other choices in town. 

Quote - I use the trackball works driver with windows 7 home premium/64bit and the expert mouse. Up to now everything seemed to work (3 buttons + ring, i do not use the upper left button very much, because it is not so easily reachable). The driver is version 1.04, if this is of any help.

Just checked, and I only downloaded it a couple days ago, 1.01 is what the file is identified as. What it's identified as and what it really installs may be two different things though, I'd have to load it again to see for sure what version it really is.

They made physical changes in the unit, and I don't like it as well as the old Expert Mouse Pro. Forces the hand to a more cramped angle, doesn't feel right.

Quote - I see that the Linux guys continue to argue. That makes one wonder. What do the Linux guys really want?

?

I think I know the answer. "They Want To be Taken Seriously"

But that will never happen. ;)

Don't be to sure about that.

Years ago, no one asked me to put Linux on thier new systems. You would be suprised how many I set up as either daul boot, or just Linux now.

Many business are also getting away from Windows on as many systems as they can. Ordering system computers, inventory, etc. are going to Linux. There is no reason to use Windows on systems like that, and with the economy the way it is, $100+ a serial number adds up fast. Most business servers run Linux, and maintaining two versions of the software is no longer cost effective to many companies either.

There are more than a few reasons that Windows XP support was extended, one of them being so Linux didn't crush them. There are tons of business programs that just plain do not work in Windows 7. Strange thing is, they work in Linux with Wine...

On the server operating system side. Microsoft has been loosing ground so fast that they don't even compete in it. When 2003 server came out, I couldn't keep them in stock. I have not sold a single 2008 server set.

I can see why as well, $14k for 2008 sql with 25 licenses, or just download Linux server. Thats a no brainer.

Microsoft may be King of the hill right now on home pcs, but that won't last forever.

Android will kill it, and thats based on Linux, open source, and free.

If you don't think it will, just ask Nokia how well thier dominace in the phone market operating system is, err, was.....

What I see, is that people like to tell others what won't happen, think they know the market, and sit back an gloat. Then complain when they get run over by it.

I would bet that your phone isn't running Symbian, and soon your desktop won't be running Windows either.

I also remember people saying that no one would want Windows either.

Funny how that works isn't it.

Quote - I see that the Linux guys continue to argue.

I see that you too easily confuse the act of correcting your demonstrable ignorance with argument. ;) 

As for "taken seriously", by whom - you? You don't matter - and neither do traditional  desktops, come to think of it. Just ask RedHat, IBM, Oracle, and those UNIX guys at Apple... they (and countless others) seem to be doing very well w/o relying on Microsoft. 

The old paradigm of some bulky box parked on a desk is slowly going away, and is fast becoming an anachronism. If about 5 years, I suspect that you likely won't see too many outside of the corporate world (hell, even in my job a desktop is a rare sight - we all have laptops).

But certainly - keep proudly pointing at your slowly aging paradigm. The rest of us are moving ahead, thanks. ;)

You are mistaken my friend. As every father know no matter how much money you give your teenage daughter it is never enough, its like a bottomless black pit. In the same way the average user will never get enough horse power from his computer. The render that today takes 2 or 3 days they would want to finish in seconds. And when that happens -maybe 50 years from now, people will still complain about slow computers.

Just looked, the one w7 box that works fine, disk is just w7.  The disk that came with the new one, w7 SR1.  Could m$ be back to their usual?  Fix one thing, screw up six in the process and say it's an improvement? 

I don't like the fact that windows works "behind your back", that is downloading a bunch of "updates" without your knowledge.  Easy to tell when it does, because everything gets slow until it's done crapping up the memory.  Then it doesn't tell you what it's downloaded, until you shut down, then have to wait for another half an hour until it's done "installing" what it pulled down without my knowledge.  Might be nice if it told me what it was downloading and installing, but that's not in the windows method of operating.  "We tell you what you need "fixed", you don't decide anything." 

when it comes to insatiable appetite for money, m$ has that all perfected.  Just look at the price of a call to their "no help whatsoever" desk.  Made Gates one of the richest men in the world, but no other benefit.

"Might be nice if it told me what it was downloading and installing, but that's not in the windows method of operating."

set updates to Notify instead of automatic. just like you did on XP and Vista.

as to the control panel? never use it. I hit start and use the search bar. much faster and finds exactly what I want.

Sorry, couldn't resist. xD

Where's my rocket pack?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Looking forward to your thoughts on Windows 8. (grinning)

LINUX!

Sorry, couldn't resist. xD

I have to chuckle here, the linux in the old box I have set in "verbose", which doesn't really do much for the speed of start up.  But it also scrolls up the screen faster than I can read it, and that's an old 2 ghz pentium four.  Getting it installed and running wasn't really any worse than installing windblows in a new box, pretty much a no brainer to do.  Don't remember it taking that long to install either.  It came with a ton of software, but the only thing I really wanted was Open Office, that machine could be considered semi retired.  Reliable though, I don't remember any glitches even when installing updates.

Quote - "Might be nice if it told me what it was downloading and installing, but that's not in the windows method of operating."

 

set updates to Notify instead of automatic. just like you did on XP and Vista.

as to the control panel? never use it. I hit start and use the search bar. much faster and finds exactly what I want.

I set updates to off, somehow it keeps turning itself back on.  Which I accept as just typical windows.

no, actually, thats not typical at all.

Quote - > Quote - "Might be nice if it told me what it was downloading and installing, but that's not in the windows method of operating."

 

set updates to Notify instead of automatic. just like you did on XP and Vista.

as to the control panel? never use it. I hit start and use the search bar. much faster and finds exactly what I want.

I set updates to off, somehow it keeps turning itself back on.  Which I accept as just typical windows.

You're doing or did something wrong then. Once it's off, it should stay off.

I didn't see if you did this or not but go to run and type in "services.msc". Scroll down to the Windows Update and put it to "Manual". That should hopefully fix it reverting to auto-update in the cp. You could disable it completely but I don't recommend that since if you try windows update it will fail unless you re-enable it in the services.