Quote - that being said.. I'll give hexagon a go.. I have been pondering buying Silo2.2 so I'll see how it compares. > Quote - Favourably. I have both. I didn't like Silo at all, at first: incessant crashing sort-of took away some of the polish. But now, it's rock stable and reasonably well-priced for what you get. And then, get the Fugazi tutorials to flesh out your purchase.

I'd say its a game changer in that they are changing the game that they are playing at.  Its a full scale retreat from the software & content game back to the content only game that they are comfortable and successful with.  Their problem this time around is that they tried to bar people from their content without adopting the software.  Clearly that did not fly so they have to hope free is low enough price to get people using genesis and investing in v5.   This should help them some, but you wont know it has truly failed until you see them 'miraculously' release a v5 figure subdivided to an acceptable level and rigged to work(by daz standards) in poser (likely with the old style rigging but maybe WM also)

Quote - > Quote - It is a game changer in this corner of the CG universe. Those not decided about which software to use can get DS 4 Pro for free for 29 days. Poser Pro 2012 won't be free. Easy pick for most people in these tight times. And anyone wanting to try the Pro version will now have all the regular Pro features to play with. This will substantially increase their user base and gain them more folks wanting to buy content which is still their main business.

And I would bet that previous purchasers will get the future 4.1 release for free or reduced price (it's the version with the big render speedup). The freebie folks will have to upgrade for the render joy. That's my guess for the future.

I read your statement five (5) times. I'm very thick. I fail to see how that's a "game-changer".

Quote - Well, whatever their goal is, good luck to them. We need more 3D sites, not less.

Now, imagining if the shoe were on the other foot... If Smith Micro announced that Poser Pro 2012 ($499 list, $299 at Amazon is the cheapest legit source I can find) were now absolutely free, I would feel a bit nervous about my platform of choice.  Never mind how I would feel if I shelled out for it 31 days ago, could now get it free, and could not get my money back.

Well, I paid $120 for it as pre-order and heard it sold for an extremely short time for $75 and remember thinking: "lucky whoever gets it!" never for a minute thinking of it's value any less.

I feel I did really well buying it for what I did. I would even pay $200 (within my budget). I would so love modo and zBrush and all that but it's out of my budget and the motivation simply isn't there to save up. Particularly since I have so much to learn in the software I do own.

Quote - About the WM-V4, we still have to see if this is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazingly well done rig, a real benefit. But people will have to modify the existing clothes, and a part of it won't work right. It's not click-click-click-done, it takes a bit more work. A lot of people will use it, but I see no game changer here either. Not yet, at least.

Not yet. But it is happening, Uwe. Just like V4-WM happened.

Quote - > Quote - Anyway, I think a bigger announcement is still to come soon.

What makes you think that?  They posted in the original "there will be a big announcement" thread at DAZ that this is the big announcement.  Are they now promising a bigger announcement?

Because the announcement is not about a game-changer?

Quote - Well, I paid $120 for it as pre-order and heard it sold for an extremely short time for $75 and remember thinking: "lucky whoever gets it!" never for a minute thinking of it's value any less.

I got it for the pre-order upgrade price, too. I was referring to what a person pays, buying Poser with no upgrade path, no pre-oprder discount. I don't know about that $75 thing that lasted a few hours at Amazon, that was crazy. They took a big hit on every copy they sold for that price, but that's what a monster retailer can do. Their current discount is $200 less than SM's price, which is wild enough.

As for the $75 price not devaluing the product... I might feel differently if it was for a month and not just a "lightning deal" where you have to be sitting at your computer at the right time of day, and tuned into Amazon's quick deals, to get it.

This 30-day Daz giveaway is going to have an impact on the way they sell Studio Pro it in the future. After the 30 days they will A) extend the giveaway indefinitely or B) set the permanent price at $49 or $99. It can't ever go back to $429 now... and I think those who paid $429 realize that and feel a little queasy. 

Good point, imax24. I guess I do feel for those who invested. Which, you do, when you buy software. You invest: time to learn it, whatever add-ons are required to give it the functionality you want... all beyond the original outlay. So, it does have that value.

With PP2012, I'm getting a return on my investment: involvement in some very exciting projects that directly involve technologies that came with this new version of the software. And to me, that's a sizeable return.

Quote - > Quote - Well, I paid $120 for it as pre-order and heard it sold for an extremely short time for $75 and remember thinking: "lucky whoever gets it!" never for a minute thinking of it's value any less.

I got it for the pre-order upgrade price, too. I was referring to what a person pays, buying Poser with no upgrade path, no pre-oprder discount. I don't know about that $75 thing that lasted a few hours at Amazon, that was crazy. They took a big hit on every copy they sold for that price, but that's what a monster retailer can do. Their current discount is $200 less than SM's price, which is wild enough.

As for the $75 price not devaluing the product... I might feel differently if it was for a month and not just a "lightning deal" where you have to be sitting at your computer at the right time of day, and tuned into Amazon's quick deals, to get it.

This 30-day Daz giveaway is going to have an impact on the way they sell Studio Pro it in the future. After the 30 days they will A) extend the giveaway indefinitely or B) set the permanent price at $49 or $99. It can't ever go back to $429 now... and I think those who paid $429 realize that and feel a little queasy. 

messiah went back to their normal pricing after their big deep discount sale last year. I don't believe for one second that ANYONE ever paid $429 for DS 4 Pro. They would totally have not done their due diligence and be idiots. I bet most of the DS 4 Pro licenses were sold long ago when it was on sale for the big discounts and they were most probably upgrades from DS 3 Advanced. It probably wasn't selling at all the past few months except for those in the Platinum Club upgrading and using discount coupons and vouchers. If DAZ could sell software at full price all the time, then they would be in the software business like SM instead of mainly being in the content business (then they could afford quality technical writers and a much larger development staff). They also wouldn't offer a 30-day money back guarantee. The kind of software we use is not a big market, and the only people making real money are Autodesk.

Quote - Good point, imax24. I guess I do feel for those who invested. Which, you do, when you buy software. You invest: time to learn it, whatever add-ons are required to give it the functionality you want... all beyond the original outlay. So, it does have that value.

With PP2012, I'm getting a return on my investment: involvement in some very exciting projects that directly involve technologies that came with this new version of the software. And to me, that's a sizeable return.

That's great, Robyn! People should focus on what works for themselves.

I don't believe for one second that ANYONE ever paid $429 for DS 4 Pro. They would totally have not done their due diligence and be idiots.

you really are not that naive are you? of course many did buy it at that price. we're talking about human being's here... you know, the ones that see .99 or .95 on the end of a price and think it's a bargain.. or buy something they don't need because it's on sale and think they got a bargain*..****

Of course it's human nature to try to get anything as cheaply as possible. But that's the price tag, or it was, so I don't what else to use as a reference point. There's no "street" prices. They don't sell through discount retailers like Amazon; I believe you can only buy directly from Daz.

At any rate, it won't ever go back to that price. I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed with giving it away, at least until Daz 5 or a paid upgrade.

Quote - I don't believe for one second that ANYONE ever paid $429 for DS 4 Pro. They would totally have not done their due diligence and be idiots.

---

---

you really are not that naive are you? of course many did buy it at that price. we're talking about human being's here... you know, the ones that see .99 or .95 on the end of a price and think it's a bargain.. or buy something they don't need because it's on sale and think they got a bargain*..****

---

Oh c'mon. Anbody going to the DAZ site and looking can see that they have big discounts and sales all the time. And if they did buy it at $429 they'd find out really quick by spending any time at DAZ that most everyone else there on the forums got it for much, much less. They would have to go to the DAZ store to get what they need or else it would be useless to them so they would see all the discounts and sales. Anybody getting Pro knows it's Pro because of the tools for folks making things. So then you would look and see Advanced and then see the free version which was there for months. If someone is totally new, they would've gotten the free version first or maybe Advanced. Why pay extra for what you won't need.

your forgetting human nature. you, yourself are thinking more than most do about it. think of the ppl that pay $200 for a HDMI cable. a $10 or less cable would do the job perfectly... yet they'll pay $200 or more. often when the cheaper cable is on the next shelf.

I originally bought Hexagon for $149.95 when all I had to do was wait for a promotion and I could have it for almost nothing (and now, absolutely nothing). I didn't ask around the forums to see what other people had paid. I just figured the price was the price.

My first version of the modern Poser (I had tried the original Poser years earlier and didn't do much with it) was Poser 7. I paid full price. Shortly thereafter Poser 8 came out and Poser 7 was steeply discounted. Banged my head against the desk on that one. I didn't ask in the forums when the next Poser was due.

I have done this with Macs that cost $2K, too. I didn't do the research to see when the current model would be replaced.

So, sometimes people are exactly as stoopid as you'd think they couldn't be. Did anybody pay full retail for DS4 Pro? Of course they did. Nolt a majority, certainly, but we pitiful, ignorant, excited buyers do exist.

The problem is autumn never-again-sales irrevocable resolution which made people bite the bullet and buy stuff at whatever price it was (I read a pair of heart wrenching stories in DAZ forums). Now, the irrevocable resolution has been revoked and people feel shafted (certain behaviours are expected by politicians of every side, not by firms).

But this is not the worst thing. The worst thing is that DAZ management sent a very loud message to customers: "Never buy at release, always wait for sales" which, in the future will mean that new products will have disappointing (to say the least) sales and that they will have then to be discounted to sell. All this means reduced and delayed cash flow for DAZ with the final result of diminishing financial resources for the development of Studio and Carrara (something Studio and Carrara users should worry about).

If they want to go the give-away-the-razor-sell-the-blades approach, they'd better say it officially remembering that it is a one-way route: once you go that way, you cannot back up. As it is now it is simply a PR mess.

Now I attribute the "ground shaking" propaganda to limited experience of the new CEO and CMO to the world of computer graphics. In this field every major release of major application is followed by wows! gasps! and whatsoever. The speed of technological improvement is tremendous and customers expect it; anything not amazing is received with meh? comments. Ground shaking is an even higher target; probably only the make-art button would have qualified for it.

Quote - The problem is autumn never-again-sales irrevocable resolution which made people bite the bullet and buy stuff at whatever price it was (I read a pair of heart wrenching stories in DAZ forums). Now, the irrevocable resolution has been revoked and people feel shafted (certain behaviours are expected by politicians of every side, not by firms).

But this is not the worst thing. The worst thing is that DAZ management sent a very loud message to customers: "Never buy at release, always wait for sales" which, in the future will mean that new products will have disappointing (to say the least) sales and that they will have then to be discounted to sell. All this means reduced and delayed cash flow for DAZ with the final result of diminishing financial resources for the development of Studio and Carrara (something Studio and Carrara users should worry about).

If they want to go the give-away-the-razor-sell-the-blades approach, they'd better say it officially remembering that it is a one-way route: once you go that way, you cannot back up. As it is now it is simply a PR mess.

Now I attribute the "ground shaking" propaganda to limited experience of the new CEO and CMO to the world of computer graphics. In this field every major release of major application is followed by wows! gasps! and whatsoever. The speed of technological improvement is tremendous and customers expect it; anything not amazing is received with meh? comments. Ground shaking is an even higher target; probably only the make-art button would have qualified for it.

I feel very sorry for people who believed the hype that the release price was as low as it would go and have also read some very heart wrenching stories. I think this has really shaken customer confidence which will be very difficult to get back. The ramifications are immense and, in this way, the announcement could be earth shattering (for them) but perhaps not in the way they originally meant. :scared:

You forget that the hype pulled them in and they wanted the shinney new toys to play with, damn the price.

There a certain amount of people that could have cared less if it was discounted a few months later...they wanted the new toys now. They wanted to be the first, at the head of the line, look at me...again damn the price.

Bet a dollar (disclaimer: next month that dollar could be free) that there is a certain percentage if they would have known back then what they know now they still would have made the purchase anyway. But since we all like to moan while our renders are cooking...:laugh: they now have a platform from which to complain, even if they could have-would have known this was coming back last August or September.

But there is also a good percentage if they would have known back then what was coming they would have waited. Meaning it's not 100 percent of the buyers that have a beef. But, it's a little late to try to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

It's this second group that is going to be very gun shy when the next paid release comes along. The early adpoters will just plow right into it.

I will flip it around, within days of every Poser release starting with P7, I have been right there at the front of the line, with my wallet open, screaming gimmy, gimmy, I want to play now, not 4 months from now. Not wait for Amazon or some other website to run a special or run to the book store to grab a magazine with a CD-DVD attached.

Quote - I will flip it around, within days of every Poser release starting with P7, I have been right there at the front of the line, with my wallet open, screaming gimmy, gimmy, I want to play now, not 4 months from now. Not wait for Amazon or some other website to run a special or run to the book store to grab a magazine with a CD-DVD attached.

I do the same with Poser, it comes down to trust and I feel I have had value for money on every version of Poser I have purchased.  When it came to 2012 SM went a step further by showing people what the new program could do before people put their hand in their pocket.  To me that shows they were confident that the Program could sell itself, lots of hard facts or, more accurately some stunning renders.  In my book that is more likely to be successful in than an over egged hype providing of course the software is good enough.  

With the pre-purchase voucher I paid around £90 (after conversion) for my copy of 2012 and if they give it away free now I would say good luck to those who got lucky.  I have had around 5 months to play with 2012 and learnt a lot and that alone is worth very penny I spent.

If I want something badly enough and it is marketed well, I'm a sucker for that as much if not more than the next person. Which is at least one of the reasons I was in the pre-order queue waving my fist-full of dollars at SM.

Daz is brilliant at marketing. That's a strength. If I go for something due to effective marketing, I'm still responsible for the act of purchasing. And Daz does provide a 30-day cooling-off period.

I do feel for those who paid full price. I've paid full price on items that I could scarcely afford, and that turned out to be hugely disappointing, with no money-back guarantees. It's a really awful feeling. Particularly in this economy, where you do think about the purchase a fair bit before entering in.

I've grown cautious, now. For example, I've heard rave reviews from people who have bought Marvelous Designer and are creating lovely items. Oh, that IS the most effective marketing: satisfied customers! But now I'm asking myself: do I want Delaunay mesh, really? Is it going to be most suitable for what I want to do? Perhaps if MD were to go on special, I might bite, but full price? Probably not.

Quote - If I want something badly enough and it is marketed well, I'm a sucker for that as much if not more than the next person. Which is at least one of the reasons I was in the pre-order queue waving my fist-full of dollars at SM.

Ditto. But then, I've always upgraded Poser, regardless.

Quote - I've grown cautious, now.

Ditto again.

I don't mind they put the programs out for free. Nice. I have "bought" them, although I don't plan on installing them. I already own Hexagon anyway, but now have a second licence. DS? The last version crapped out on my machine and I don't like the way they handle meta data. I don't want "dirty" software that leaves processes running when I don't use the proggy. I hate it that Photoshop does it.

The motive, I would think, is to boost content sales.
Not only is the economy slow, many people didn't take to Genesis quite the way Daz probably hoped. That's gotta impact sales quite a bit.

And how many of us Poser users are now shopping elsewhere? (I do.)

Quote - Not only is the economy slow, many people didn't take to Genesis quite the way Daz probably hoped. That's gotta impact sales quite a bit.

Yes. Also, by making Genesis proprietary (it only works in Daz Sudio 4) they found themselves in the position of preaching to a rather small choir.  Even DS3 users who tried and dropped DS4 had to decide between doing without Genesis or using a prog they didn't like. The same choice as faced by many Poser users, actually.

So Genesis was being used by a limited market, and sales of Genesis content must have been limited as well. A simple math problem, which they tried to solve by making DS4 free. It's so simple, I don't know why we are trying to find more complex motives.

Whatever the motivation, I suspect it is too little, too late. They broke the 'DAZ has announced a new figure! We must all march over there and get it NOW! Toss the Old! Embrace The New!!!' habit they had spent so many years insinuating into the Poserverse. And though they never thought about it for a second, the consequences of 'showing the Poser makers/owners' by -only- sticking with P4 level tech has truly bitten them on the ass......because with no new v-thing to muddy the waters, others have stepped in and =used= the new tools. And the tools that have been added over the years. It has made the the newest Poser seem even more of an upgrade than it already is. And with the projects underway, people are being presented with the chance to use -all- their old figures in acceptable fashions; not being expected to toss it aside and buy the same things over yet again. 

Quote - Also, by making Genesis proprietary (it only works in Daz Sudio 4) they found themselves in the position of preaching to a rather small choir.  Even DS3 users who tried and dropped DS4 had to decide between doing without Genesis or using a prog they didn't like. The same choice as faced by many Poser users, actually.

Well DAZ did offer the details to Smith Micro, whatever you may think of their expectations that the offer would be accepted, and appear to be working to get the format supported in other apps. It's not that they want it to be proprietary, just that so far it is (ignoring Carrara 8.5 beta, another DAZ application).

Quote - > Quote - Also, by making Genesis proprietary (it only works in Daz Sudio 4) they found themselves in the position of preaching to a rather small choir.  Even DS3 users who tried and dropped DS4 had to decide between doing without Genesis or using a prog they didn't like. The same choice as faced by many Poser users, actually.

Well DAZ did offer the details to Smith Micro, whatever you may think of their expectations that the offer would be accepted, and appear to be working to get the format supported in other apps. It's not that they want it to be proprietary, just that so far it is (ignoring Carrara 8.5 beta, another DAZ application).

There have been multiple times where DAZ officials have stated that genesis is a platform and not a figure. So to be able to fully support it other software companies have to redesign their software to accomodate genesis. It is NOT a simple matter of an ex/importer. So supporting genesis means each application has to redesign their software possibly breaking their support for other platforms.

This is something which most companies will not choose to do. At best there will be a sub-level of support in it in which the figure will not look as good as intended. Another reason not to go for it.

If there will be any full support for genesis (apart from Studio and Carrara) it will be quite some tiime before it will be released.

There have been multiple times where DAZ officials have stated that genesis is a platform and not a figure. So to be able to fully support it other software companies have to redesign their software to accomodate genesis. It is NOT a simple matter of an ex/importer. So supporting genesis means each application has to redesign their software possibly breaking their support for other platforms.

This is something which most companies will not choose to do. At best there will be a sub-level of support in it in which the figure will not look as good as intended. Another reason not to go for it.

If there will be any full support for genesis (apart from Studio and Carrara) it will be quite some tiime before it will be released.

this. just this. it's not realistic to expect any firm to just add in tech in what is basically an instant. ***

Quote - > Quote - Also, by making Genesis proprietary (it only works in Daz Sudio 4) they found themselves in the position of preaching to a rather small choir.  Even DS3 users who tried and dropped DS4 had to decide between doing without Genesis or using a prog they didn't like. The same choice as faced by many Poser users, actually.

Well DAZ did offer the details to Smith Micro, whatever you may think of their expectations that the offer would be accepted, and appear to be working to get the format supported in other apps. It's not that they want it to be proprietary, just that so far it is (ignoring Carrara 8.5 beta, another DAZ application).

I think the point was more along the lines that DAZ made a conscious decision to exclude Poser users by developing their software/character in an incompatible proprietary format.

Steve Cooper has said (in a thread at RDNA) that SM did have some advance notice about Genesis. But they conscously decided not to change Poser to the extent required to accommodate what he called a proprietary system that leads off in directions that SM is not willing to go. Reading between the lines, they decided not to tie their fortunes to a system they aren't 100% confident in and which they have no control over.

I may be wrong, but I presume SM's implemenation of weight-mapping could not have existed alongside the Genesis system in Poser. And we would not have V4-WM now.

Proprietary technology with who knows what licensing conditions and royalties amount.

Quote - Steve Cooper has said (in a thread at RDNA) that SM did have some advance notice about Genesis. But they conscously decided not to change Poser to the extent required to accommodate what he called a proprietary system that leads off in directions that SM is not willing to go. Reading between the lines, they decided not to tie their fortunes to a system they aren't 100% confident in and which they have no control over. I may be wrong, but I presume SM's implemenation of weight-mapping could not have existed alongside the Genesis system in Poser. And we would not have V4-WM now.

To use the latest "Poser" technology you have to choose one or the other. Genesis or Poser Pro 2012 (V4-WM). Of course you could use both programs, but judging from the amount of fighting in the forums and deleting and locking of threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to using both programs. I fear the next version of both programs is only going to make this schism worse.

Quote - To use the latest "Poser" technology you have to choose one or the other. Genesis or Poser Pro 2012 (V4-WM). Of course you could use both programs, but judging from the amount of fighting in the forums and deleting and locking of threads there seems to be a lot of resistance to using both programs. I fear the next version of both programs is only going to make this schism worse.

Which is probably what the DAZ givaway is attempting to stop, or at least, mitigate.  If users get a chance to play with the top of the line version of D|S4, they may decide it's worth sticking with.  If the free version owners have to make a small outlay for an upgrade, they may think it's worth doing so and using PP2012.

Put it this way, if they didn't have the opportunity to do so before, due to cost or whatever, there's no reason to not at least try it out now.  Unless, of course, you're like me with an ancient system that won't run it.  Then again, I wouldn't be able to run PP2012, either, so I'm stuck for now.  Hopefully I'll have both up and running later this year. 

Game changer?  For DAZ, maybe. 

Quote - Which is probably what the DAZ givaway is attempting to stop, or at least, mitigate.  If users get a chance to play with the top of the line version of D|S4, they may decide it's worth sticking with.  If the free version owners have to make a small outlay for an upgrade, they may think it's worth doing so and using PP2012. Put it this way, if they didn't have the opportunity to do so before, due to cost or whatever, there's no reason to not at least try it out now.  Unless, of course, you're like me with an ancient system that won't run it.  Then again, I wouldn't be able to run PP2012, either, so I'm stuck for now.  Hopefully I'll have both up and running later this year. 

Well, I bit. Downloaded it. My limitation, however, is time. I work full-time as a nurse, run a household and so my Poser projects sort-of get squeezed in there somewhere, time permitting. So, once I get rigging figured out (and a figure successfully rigged for Poser), weightmapping figured out (same deal), wxPython script GUIs writing nailed down, dynamic cloth design firmly in my portfolio, Pose2Lux material creation easily doable and some of the more sophisticated aspects matmatic clear in my head (getting there, I think!) I'll probably have some time for DS4 Pro.

This is one of the main reasons I'm staying with Blender for modelling and not saving up for modo, which I would love: time. Takes time to learn software and techniques. I already know Blender and it's evolving (BMesh not far away). Time is too precious. And too scarce.

Well, I bit. Downloaded it. My limitation, however, is time........

I think this is true for many users, after all many people using Daz or Poser are hobbists and for many time is a major factor.  Although I am semi-retired I to have to make time to work in Poser but, unlike many here, I am not that skilled so I have a choice.  Spend a lot of time learning DS4 in the hope it will give me something Poser cannot or use the same time to learn more about Poser 2012 and Silo which I started using last year.  

So far Poser 2012 has so much I want to learn that I have concentrated in that area.  I have downloaded Daz 4 just in case I find I have a lot of unexpected free time on my hands (at my time of life if I am made redundant I will have little choice than to move to full retirement.)  Other than that I have no real plans to play with Daz 4.

Believe me when I say, retirement isn't really the answer to having more time to learn new programs. I still use that time to learn more about the ones I already have. That can still keep me busy after my 14 years using Poser & Bryce. That and actually taking the time to build scenes that I want to render that aren't just test shots. (I do way too many of them, believe you me!)

From the February 5th Blender meeting notes:

...minor roll of drums...

Blender 2.62 is hours away from the Release Candidate: among other things, it brings the Carve library to handle booleans. This library is faster and better the previous booleans and, among other features, handles nicely ngons which brings us to...

...major roll of drums...

Quote - BMesh: is near final now! Campbell committed last big hurdle, for particle/hair support.

• Proposal: the next 2.63 release gets an exclusive BMesh-focus, other work should be done respecting it, or wait for 2.64 (especially bigger features that need testing time).
  Once BMesh is in trunk, we could move to BCon3 immediate (testing/fixing period, no new features added) and release 2.63 in less than two months.

Putting together ngons and booleans, in a few weeks Blender will be capable of handling a totally different modeling workflow from the past, very similar to the one of Wings3D/SketchUp.

In addition, BMesh is the precodition for many enhancements currently on hold, both for hard surface and organic modeling tasks.

This is a ground shaking announcement: when you download the new version of a program and, to all practical purpose, find yourself with a brand new application capable of functionalities which in the past you could only dream of.

Bye.

I downloaded DS4 Pro as well. I thought I would at least play a but. But I haven't. I have not felt the slightest inclination to install it - because as Robyn says, it will eat into my time for Poser and Blender. There is too much to learn. it is information overload. Basically I am confortable with the tools I use and I don't like being a noob...

I wonder how many copies of DS4 Pro are "downloaded but not installed." It reminds me of when CDs started to replace cassette tapes. I bought my first CD just so I could be part of the new wave, but I didn't buy a CD player for another year. :laugh:

Anyway, these downloads just because it's free, they help Daz claim DS4 is suddently gaining in popularity, but if the downloads don't trigger purchases of Genesis content.......

Quote - I wonder how many copies of DS4 Pro are "downloaded but not installed." It reminds me of when CDs started to replace cassette tapes. I bought my first CD just so I could be part of the new wave, but I didn't buy a CD player for another year. :laugh:

Anyway, these downloads just because it's free, they help Daz claim DS4 is suddently gaining in popularity, but if the downloads don't trigger purchases of Genesis content.......

And, how many will install, open and then uninstall because there's not even a hint of documentation and they can't figure out how to use it?

I'll definitely use it when I can.  Been itching to use D|S for ages now.  Plus, I'd like to offer D|S compatibility with my stuff.

Same with Hex.  Loaded it up last night and had a quick play around with it.  Pretty daunting after Wings so I'll be hunting for tutorials.

D|S can't be that difficult to use; at least most of the concepts in there will be familiar to Poser users, even if the interface and some of the terminology is different.  I hope.  :) 

Quote - > Quote - I wonder how many copies of DS4 Pro are "downloaded but not installed." It reminds me of when CDs started to replace cassette tapes. I bought my first CD just so I could be part of the new wave, but I didn't buy a CD player for another year. :laugh:

Anyway, these downloads just because it's free, they help Daz claim DS4 is suddently gaining in popularity, but if the downloads don't trigger purchases of Genesis content.......

And, how many will install, open and then uninstall because there's not even a hint of documentation and they can't figure out how to use it?

There's at least a hint of documentation, though it's very far from complete: http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/start

This "figure it out for yourself" thing is  not just Daz. Have you noticed that the Read-Me's that come with most content is just a list of files? By this time I have come to know what to expect from most different types of clothing, but for a newbie, a few words of instruction and tips for best use would be most welcome.

Quote - This "figure it out for yourself" thing is  not just Daz. Have you noticed that the Read-Me's that come with most content is just a list of files? By this time I have come to know what to expect from most different types of clothing, but for a newbie, a few words of instruction and tips for best use would be most welcome.

I was actually referring to software documentation.  Users won't ever get to individual product readmes if they can't figure out the software so they can buy individual products.

Quote - I'll definitely use it when I can.  Been itching to use D|S for ages now.  Plus, I'd like to offer D|S compatibility with my stuff.

Same with Hex.  Loaded it up last night and had a quick play around with it.  Pretty daunting after Wings so I'll be hunting for tutorials.

D|S can't be that difficult to use; at least most of the concepts in there will be familiar to Poser users, even if the interface and some of the terminology is different.  I hope.  :) 

 

Geek at Play has some of the best Hexagon tutorials out there.  And, they're free.

http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/index0.php

Quote - I was actually referring to software documentation.  Users won't ever get to individual product readmes if they can't figure out the software so they can buy individual products.

Yeah, I know what you meant. My post was sort of "And another thing..."

I kinda burned my bridges. If Iever did want to try Daz Studio, I'd have to re-download everything I ever bought from their store. Because I have been wilfully defying their instructions NOT to delete the DSA files that their installers put in my runtime. So there's that in the way of jumping on the "try it, you'll like it" bandwagon.

Quote - > Quote - I was actually referring to software documentation.  Users won't ever get to individual product readmes if they can't figure out the software so they can buy individual products.

Yeah, I know what you meant. My post was sort of "And another thing..."

Besides, who reads readmes? LOL. I could pound my head against the wall when I hear "how do you do x?" and it's in the readme. Ugh. I normally add tips to mine if I can. And yet no one reads 'em :P.

Laurie

Hello,

well, "bought", downloaded and even installed Ds4P this weekend. I used DS3A in the past to run some dynamic cloth simulations, and always grumbled that it was 32 bit only. Now that is solved with DS4, luckily the plugins come without an upgrade price.

To use it also for rendering, same constraint for me is time. The little I have I currently, I put into Poser, to dive a bit deeper into the shader nodes. Without Poser's new SSS, I might have spent some more time with DS4, but right now I find Poser's render engine superior to DS (judgement based on renders found in the gallery).

Best regards,

   Michael

Quote - I kinda burned my bridges.

Likewise. Having made the decision to move over to Poser I've got no inclination to look at DS again. I've cleared all the confused mess that was my Daz runtime and now only need to use my tidy, organised Poser runtime. I never did find half the stuff wherever the DS installers scattered it anyway.

Quote - Geek at Play has some of the best Hexagon tutorials out there.  And, they're free.

http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/index0.php

Thanks.  Bookmarked. 

Quote - > Quote - Geek at Play has some of the best Hexagon tutorials out there.  And, they're free.

http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/index0.php

Thanks.  Bookmarked. 

You're welcome.  Glad I could help.

Hey SamT - these Hexagon video tutes are also worth watching :). As daunting as it might look now, Hexagon is pretty easy to pick up if you already know how to model. Just think of all you can do now that you have splines! I also recommend Glitterati's suggestion for Geekatplay. Great stuff :).

Laurie