He looks so much like Tyler to me, that I'm not sure you'll have enough of a market for him. Maybe change his face morph more?

http://poser.smithmicro.com/tyler.html

Tyler is weight-mapped and was free for so long for Poser owners. Almost no content was ever created for him.

Agreed with the other comments on the arms and legs. Sternum needs to come inward. Shoulder blades look off. Lower back needs to be smoothed on either side of the spine.

What does the wireframe look like? UVs? Sorry if I've missed that elsewhere in this thread.

Regardless, I know this has been a lot of work & you've definitely made some great strides!

well if it was me just trying to make the best looking guy possible I'd say broad shoulders is the way I'd go.. but that is not necessarily the standard you are or should be working to !!

I think your torso shape probably ought to set the general tone of the character, and your torso looks great!.  Maybe the thighs and shins a hair leaner?  Hard for me to say as I have zero experience modelling, drawing or even evaluating human anatomy. (Unless oogling counts!)

Quote - > Quote - this looks very good.  The one thing that my very uneducated eye seems to catch is that his torso seems a little thin in relation to his arms and legs.  looking up from the feet and following the figure up I'm expecting those legs to give way to a more (i dont know the word to use) rugged, or solid torso.  I'm not quite sure how to explain this better (though I think my initial explaination sucked!)  Its almost like the torso belongs to a very athletic smaller framed fellow.  Where the arms and legs remind me more of a, still athletic, tall, braod shouldered kind of guy.

Just some basic impressions.  

Good work! 

 

Ok thanks. So, maybe his thighs should be a bit slimmer to match his torso? 

Or should his chest and shoulders be broader?

Thighs are one of my weaker areas. They always tend to look like saddle bags. Lots of different muscle groups going on there and difficult to get the taper down to the knee just right.

 

~Shane

Oh. Maybe I mean shin, not calf? Lower leg anyway.

Yeah, I agree I would like his shoulders a bit broader too.

Coming in way late to this, and WOW.

I'd say I liked his previous face more than his current one, this one seems a bit too ... soft (for lack of a better word) What I loved in the first version(s) was his ruggedness - he's much softer now, and it's a bit of a shame - I like rugged, angular, wiry guys. But that's a personal preference, not necessarily what would sell best L

His jaw should be more masculine when viewed from the front IMO. And the brow.. looks like he's wearing a perpetual frown, I'm not sure if that's on purpose?

That said: I can't WAIT to see this one finished! I'm always on the look out for more male characters for my runtime. And I do not always dress them ;)

I agree. I like the more rugged look he has, much better than the squashy look of M4.

Also - with regard to nude renders - will he have a foreskin for us Europeans? (Preferably one that doesn't become horribly detached from the rest of him, like Tyler's!)

I'll try to address each of your posts just give me a bit - was doin yard work so tired and sore now lol. 

In regards to the head proportions, especially the ears eyes and nose as badkittieco was pointing out in her illustrations, here is a composite of the proportion guides I've mostly been using from Scott Spencer's book, with adjustments based on the other models I've been using as reference.

I don't use just one reference. Pretty much I have several different references depending on which part of the body I'm working on at the time. Probably not the best approach but I have to make due with what I can find. I do keep them all relatively the same body build as much as I can of course, but no two people are built exactly alike. Except maybe twins I guess.

I've always gone by the rule of ears being as tall as the brow to the bottom or tip of the nose/septum (depending on how angled the nose is). That's what I was taught in my figure drawing classes (we did have live models) and in most cases it seems to work. 

That said, I agree his ears seem either a bit too high or a bit too large in perspective view, but as you can see in this image they line up with that rule in ortho view. As do the rest of his head proportions, 4 equal parts, etc etc. 

So, thoughts on that? I probably should make the ears a bit smaller.  

~Shane 

Model on the left is courtesy ten24.info. 

Not 100%,

compensation for perspective view (left) to ortho view.

In terms of nipple - navel distance generally being 1 head length, yes. Lucas' navel should come up just a tad. However, once he's fully rigged the way I intend his pecks (and nipples) will drop. 

Reason for this: The T-Pose is completely unnatural. Notice back on the first page of this thread how I originally sculpted his arms at 45 degrees. This is standard practice in school and most ("high end") sites you'll see models sculpted with arms at roughly 45 degrees.

So in order to compensate for poser's T-pose norm (which is about the only place you see the T-pose anymore, on a regular basis) I sculpted him in such a way that most closely resembled what real muscles would do, and their placement/distortion when the arms are raised to 90 degrees (t-pose). Pecks pull up and flatten out a bit as they wrap more tightly around the ribcage, pulled by the shoulders.

My intention with the rig is to have those muscles, mostly the pecks, lower as his arms lower,  via weightmaps and morphs, as they would do naturally. This is the only way I can think of to make him look natural in both positions. Maybe there's a better way that someone can come up with, but the pecks have to move in order for them to look natural, there's no way around it.

One of the biggest problem areas in male figures are their pecks. Most of them remain stationary regardless of how the arms and shoulders are positioned. This isn't natural and always looks really bad. 

I don't know if its ignored in order to compensate for clothing creation, or if it's just an area that most figure artists ignore or overlook, but it's one of the crucial areas in Lucas that I want to make sure is done right. If it makes content creation a bit more difficult, then I can't help that. I don't think it should make much of a difference especially since morphs are so easily transferred to clothing anyway. Plus, dynamic clothing is always more realistic (when done properly) and in that regard it wouldn't affect clothing cause there's no morphs to transfer.

~Shane

Quote - Ok, since I've been talkin all this crap lately, and don't really have anything posted to back up what I say, AND since it's been quite a while since I updated this thread, I figured I'd post an update on where Lucas is at in development. This is just a preview shot for now, but I'll follow up soon with more visible mesh shots if they're wanted, and other poses as I continue to fine-tune the rig.

It's not intended to be a discussion on mesh quality (at this point - but soon), since his mesh is still being fine-tuned. This is his 3rd rig, and 4th mesh complete redesign (i think? kind'a lost count). (not including minor tweaks and adjustments/poly-squashing, as those are always pretty much innumerable). Currently he's just under 50k but I'm in the process of reducing it to about 45K, give or take, and see how that works. That is his high res mesh. I have 2 other meshes still being built, low res (around 1500 is the goal) and med res (around 20k). They will all share the same rig. 

I work in tandem, rigging and geometry tweaking, because it's the only sure way of getting optimum results out of both the mesh and the rig - on ANY figure. 

There are no weightmaps or JCMs at this point, obviously.

Keep in mind everything is WIP, from the geometry to the texture, NOTHING is final yet. There are still a lot of adjustments needed in the rig and some of that is evident in this shot. 

Feel free to critique all you want, rip him apart, I encourage it. If you think it's shit go ahead and say so, it's not going to hurt my feelings or get me irritated, I want brutal honesty. It's the ONLY way you learn and improve.

There will be more updates in the very near future (I know I say that all the time), and I'm working on putting together a blog for those out there who are interested, to follow. 

He is bearskin mapped, with his head separate. I'm still debating if that's the best way to map him. Thinking about remapping him to break up body parts in order to reduce stretching, which is unavoidable when a high-res model is bearskin mapped.

 

~Shane

The mesh is fine as is.
I would post some .jpgs of Lucas in your Renerosity Gallery.

I thought you worked as a Pro CGI Artist ?

You started this thread Mar 14, 2012 it's Aug 28, 2013.

model,map it,rig it and finalise it.

Don't let ya self get bogged down for any reson what so ever.

Only work on one mesh at a time with a dead line.

It's August 28, 2013
Say to your self you will have Lucas 50k realeased buy September 15 2013.
So no more remeshes or remapping or rerigging ,you don't have time.
No more well maybe if we did it this way it would be better ,you don't have time.

Finalise Lucas 50k buy September 15 2013.
or just throw all your CGI away and get some paint buy #'s.

It would be a real tragedy for CGI to lose a CGI Artist as talented as AmbientShade.

Ok, now that I see front view:

I think the shoulders should be broader. I think the legs are thick compared to the rest of him, so either the legs thinner or the upper part of his body bigger (I'm thinking the latter). His hands are overly large and his arms are a bit too short. Shrink the size of the knees along with the leg..they should be thinner at the knees in proportion to the rest of the leg than they are and same with the ankles.

:)

Laurie

Quote - So in order to compensate for poser's T-pose norm (which is about the only place you see the T-pose anymore, on a regular basis) I sculpted him in such a way that most closely resembled what real muscles would do, and their placement/distortion when the arms are raised to 90 degrees (t-pose). Pecks pull up and flatten out a bit as they wrap more tightly around the ribcage, pulled by the shoulders.

Why are you using the T pose?

Quote - One of the biggest problem areas in male figures are their pecks. Most of them remain stationary regardless of how the arms and shoulders are positioned. This isn't natural and always looks really bad. 

The inner two thirds of the pectoralis (relative to the ribcage), donlt move up and down very much because they are attached to the bone. If the guy is really plump they will hang down a tad, but seldom lower then the attachement to the bone. Only the outter 1/3 of the pectoralis is not attached (because there is pectoralis minor under that portion), and will be free floating... which is when pecs are big and relaxes they tend to droop a bit to the outside, instead of the whole slab of them drooping straight down. The nipples will float a little as the skin pulls them around, mostly in a bit of a diagonal motion. Most of the upward motion happens when the arms are lifter up over the shoulder and over the head, because a good part of the pec is attached to the clavicle. The part of the pectoralis attached to the humerus, in the first 90° of abdusction from supine anatomical position to the T pose will pull more outwards then up. After that, things get uplled up more.

If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

From the front - I agree the shoulders should be a bit wider and still think the lower leg should be slightly thinner and more tapered to the ankle. I think the size of the hands is fine and should stay as they are.

Love that you can actually see the hands have bone structure, instead of being like a rubber glove like many models are.

Quote - Ok, now that I see front view:

I think the shoulders should be broader. I think the legs are thick compared to the rest of him, so either the legs thinner or the upper part of his body bigger (I'm thinking the latter). His hands are overly large and his arms are a bit too short. Shrink the size of the knees along with the leg..they should be thinner at the knees in proportion to the rest of the leg than they are and same with the ankles.

:)

Laurie

Thanks Laurie.

As I said, not 100%, not by a LONG shot. Maybe 70 to 80%, but it's getting there. Sloooowwwly. Or at least I'm trying to be optimistic. LOL.

The ortho view kinda makes me realise how much it sucks actually. It's not a view I commonly use which is probably why I have so many mistakes. 

But like I said, this is a work in progress, and it won't be done until I'm happy with it and at this point I'm very far from being happy with it. Especially after looking at what I've posted from a different perspective and considering all the feedback you guys have given the last couple days.

But I'm not under contract, there are no deadlines, so it will take as long as it takes. 

~Shane

Quote -
Why are you using the T pose?

Because of what Teyon said here, on the first page:

Quote - FYI - if you leave him at the 45 pose, he's not going to work easily with Walk Designer. That's the primary reason we have everything in a T pose. You can model him initially in the 45 - I find I like doing that - but if you plan on folks using him with walk designer and want to save some anger, you'll want to reposition his arms before you start the rig.

So begrudgingly I complied, and have since experimented with numerous angles for the arms and settled for where they're currently at. 

~Shane

With animated joints you can slave shoulder adjustments to a parameter dial. Not sure about JCMs though, how these would be affected. The scale dials do not have enough control, in my opinion.

Quote - If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

I don't know how to respond to this, but I feel like I need to. I actually sat and stared at this last night for about 2 hours before giving up and going to bed to sleep on it. 

Today, after contemplating it again for another couple hours, I still don't know how to respond without it being seen as inflamatory and I don't want that. I think I've pissed off enough people with my views lately and that's never been my intention. I hope I haven't alienated too many folks, but if I have I can't do anything about it now.

All I can say is that I never intended Lucas to be DS compliant. I see zero point in it at this stage and I can't foresee any reason to change that perspective unless there's a real demand for it, and that won't be aparent until people are actually using him, if that ever even happens. 

~Shane

Quote - With animated joints you can slave shoulder adjustments to a parameter dial. Not sure about JCMs though, how these would be affected. The scale dials do not have enough control, in my opinion.

As long as the groups don't change I don't see why it should cause too much of a problem. But Joe is probably a better candidate for answering that at this point. 

~Shane

Isn't that what good art is there for ?

I think somewhere on this planet you can even find a person that is gravely offended by a Bob Ross painting, God bless his kind soul.  :-)

As for rigging, you can pretty much link anything to anything else with the dependency editor.

Want to have a joint that follows an arc while the limb bends ? No problem with animated joint centers. (And no problem for clothing to follow that joint, either)

Problem is just, crude'n'crappy is more economic in the Poserverse.

Simply rigged figures with simply rigged clothing is usually enough to keep the unwashed masses happy, so that's what everybody's doing.

Meh, if I just wanted to make some $$$ with Poser I perhaps would do the same.

But the fame and glory is usually into doing a thing as good as possible, and people have tried to improve what's there since the Poser 3 days. (And a lot of these ideas got later copied for the mainstream figures)

As for your figure:

I forgot most of them fancy latin words I learned in school about the human body, so I won't go into details like Conny did.

Let me just say that "IF" you're going for "real" realism, the torso and hips look very thin compared to the rest to me. (See attached render)

Personally I only use a single set of reference pics when I redo a figure to make sure that everything matches to everything else.

But so far it looks like you're on the right path. Good work ! 

:-)

BTW, I wouldn't spend too much time perfecting the non-weightmapped rig unless you need him to be fully backwards compatible.

When I weightmap an older figure, I usually have to throw out all of the legacy rigging except for the joint centers to keep cloth compatibility. It really doesn't matter if the old rigging was good or bad. The time I need for weightmapping is pretty much the same.

Quote - > Quote -

Why are you using the T pose?

 

Because of what Teyon said here, on the first page:

Quote - FYI - if you leave him at the 45 pose, he's not going to work easily with Walk Designer. That's the primary reason we have everything in a T pose. You can model him initially in the 45 - I find I like doing that - but if you plan on folks using him with walk designer and want to save some anger, you'll want to reposition his arms before you start the rig.

So begrudgingly I complied, and have since experimented with numerous angles for the arms and settled for where they're currently 

Darn.

I wouldnt worry about upsetting people RE DS compatability.  Thats a design choice that is kind of yours to make.  As a poser user the primary benefit DS compatability lends is the widened content/vendor pool.  There are some greatly talented people who mostly just design for DS, so thats nice about it.  On the other hand, how many compromises would have to be made?  Quite possibly not worth it.. particularly if it would be a burdensome part of the project.  Crappy parts of the workflow always suck, but ten times more when you personally begrudge having to do them.  I wouldnt give it a second thought.

On the content creator side of things.. well I'm torn.  The part of me that just loves to see how good a figure can get would love to see you pull out every stop and use every trick in the book to make it as good as possible.  From a commercial standpoint you would have to take vendor 'buy in' into account.  So a balance may have to be found.  As for making content...  I'd personally be OK with a figure that was a little challenging or complex to rig for IF I am capable of growing my skills to be up to the task AND after having done that the resulting clothing looks noticably better than I would have been able to do on a simpler rigged character.   If I was to walk away from every attempt feeling frustrated and stupid I'd likely move on to a figure that didn't hate me so much!

Quote - > Quote - If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

 

I don't know how to respond to this, but I feel like I need to. I actually sat and stared at this last night for about 2 hours before giving up and going to bed to sleep on it. 

Today, after contemplating it again for another couple hours, I still don't know how to respond without it being seen as inflamatory and I don't want that. I think I've pissed off enough people with my views lately and that's never been my intention. I hope I haven't alienated too many folks, but if I have I can't do anything about it now.

All I can say is that I never intended Lucas to be DS compliant. I see zero point in it at this stage and I can't foresee any reason to change that perspective unless there's a real demand for it, and that won't be aparent until people are actually using him, if that ever even happens. 

 

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

 

I don't know how to respond to this, but I feel like I need to. I actually sat and stared at this last night for about 2 hours before giving up and going to bed to sleep on it. 

Today, after contemplating it again for another couple hours, I still don't know how to respond without it being seen as inflamatory and I don't want that. I think I've pissed off enough people with my views lately and that's never been my intention. I hope I haven't alienated too many folks, but if I have I can't do anything about it now.

All I can say is that I never intended Lucas to be DS compliant. I see zero point in it at this stage and I can't foresee any reason to change that perspective unless there's a real demand for it, and that won't be aparent until people are actually using him, if that ever even happens. ~Shane

Why worry about being inflammatory? Its just a simple question, perhaps you are reading too much into it. The thread is long and a year old, youre going to have newcomers who are not going to have or take time to read the whole thing. Most of the time people will not even read a one page readme file they need for a product, You're always going to be repeating answers to common questions, and get tired of it that it will make you want to puke. That's a normal part of working with stuff you are making for other people (customers, potential users etc...). Par for the course. Nothing to get all tied up in the knots over.

There is significant intetest in figure that works in both, thats the primary reaon Dawn is generating the interest she is. Its not her looks or technological prowess.

Look at products out thete in the world... what gets widest use is seldom most technologically advanced.

Quote - Simply rigged figures with simply rigged clothing is usually enough to keep the unwashed masses happy, so that's what everybody's doing.

If he is making a figure for other people to use, most of his users will be your so called crude and unwashed masses. Starting off by knocking them down and insulting is not a good way yo go if he wants it to have some degree of popularity.

Otherwise, you end up a figure just for yourself... which doesn't seem what Shane is trying to do.

Quote - I wouldnt worry about upsetting people RE DS compatability.  Thats a design choice that is kind of yours to make. 

Exactly.

The thing about vendors, especially long term ones, they know the end users. Probably better then anyone else, because their experience is not limited to just forum talk.

It can be extremely surprizing at first just how few customers you see in the forums. Less then 10%.

What I mean by bringing that up is that is that I see a lot of peoples figures fall by the wayside.... at least two a year because they buy into what happens around forums, and neglect the rest. The climates are a bit different.

If I'm modeling your game mesh. 
I'll need reference images front ,back ,left side ,right side ,top ,bottom.
And at lest 3 prespective images.
All in exact full color.

Not saying anythings wrong with your mesh.
but if your going for realism.
Might be helpful if you used human reference images using the same human for each view.

http://www.3d.sk/

Quote -  

 

Quote -

"Simply rigged figures with simply rigged clothing is usually enough to keep the unwashed masses happy, so that's what everybody's doing.
"

If he is making a figure for other people to use, most of his users will be your so called crude and unwashed masses. Starting off by knocking them down and insulting is not a good way yo go if he wants it to have some degree of popularity.

Otherwise, you end up a figure just for yourself... which doesn't seem what Shane is trying to do.

Thanks. I agree with each of you on this actually, and appreciate all views. 

I'm not letting fantasies of his mass-market appeal determine how I design him.

I'm confident enough in his potential that I think he will appeal to a lot of people once they actually see the end results.

Of course I want him to appeal to as many folks as possible, but at the same time it's not my intention to build the next McFigure. I'm sick of seeing that as everything out there already appeals to the 5-minute hobby renderer's needs. 

You don't get professional results in 5 minutes of clicking buttons. It's just not possible. If that's all the time you're willing to invest in your "art" then go use Genesis or something else.

As an artist, I like using software that was designed by artists for artists. As a figure creator, my goal is to design a figure that other artists want to use. 

In a studio setting, my job is to build a figure that an animator can use without pulling their hair out or having a nervous break-down over it. In a studio, that requires following specific rules and design principles. I don't see how Poser should be any different, as the studio animators I'm building for are the end-users.

My intentions all along have been to build a professionally designed and rigged figure that follows the principles of how I was trained to build for film and games, modified where needed in order to work within Posers limitations. 

The reason for this is to appeal more to the am-pro's among Poserites, as opposed to the pure hobbyists looking for the 1-click make-art solutions. 

There's enough of that in Poserdom, since Poser 1. The one-click solution figure has been done and redone so many times, I think that design has been pushed to its maximum potential already and now people are just trying to reinvent the wheel hoping to discover the next cash cow.

It's time to move to the next level. Poser is more than capable of handling that level but nothing currently utilizes its potential. 

That doesn't mean he won't be easy to use by the hobbyists. It just means he'll work a bit differently and may have a bit of a learning curve for some. The trade-off for that learning curve is that he'll have much better functionality for the end-user than (most) of what is currently available. Or at least that's the goal. I don't claim to be an expert, and a lot of this is still a learning process for me. I have to adapt what I know from working on higher-end projects to what I know about Poser so some of it is experimental. Actually at this point the entire project is experimental.

It can't be a direct translation because too many details are different between what works in a studio and what works in Poser. I understand that aspect. So I aim closer to the middle ground.

I can give a run-down of my experience if anyone wants it, if that helps in showing that I at least am pretty sure I know what I'm doing. It's not a lot of experience, but I think its adequate enough for what I'm trying to do.

I'm really hoping Lucas will appeal to content developers who are looking for something different, something a bit more advanced than what they currently have to work with and without all the headaches. I'm hoping enough people will take interest in him, on both an end-users perspective and a content developers perspective, and want to see his success happen, but I can't gurantee anything at this point. Everything about this kind of work is about taking chances and risking failure. That's the only way to succeed. But if you just want to chase the next $.99 market special to rake in as many dollars as you can then Lucas isn't the figure for you to support. 

~Shane

Quote - BTW, I wouldn't spend too much time perfecting the non-weightmapped rig unless you need him to be fully backwards compatible.

Thanks Joe. I've always liked how you aren't afraid to speak your mind regardless, even when we don't agree on certain issues. 

I'm open to making him backwards compatible, at least some version of him. I think what I'm trying to do actually is possible in older versions of Poser, but ironically it would make him more complicated for using in pre-p9/2012 versions. But I'm still working that out so I can't make any promises or definitives right now.

Rigging him the standard way right now has a lot to do with how his design works in conjunction with his mesh. Without a well-refined base rig and geometry, it will make things more complicated in later stages of his development even with weightmaps, so I'm trying to get everything as accurate as possible from one stage to the next as I progress with it. 

Innitial rigging also leaves open the possibility of making him backwards compatible, so that's another benefit to how I'm going about it. 

And, the ability to pose him in his current stage of development, even without his anatomy finalized at this point, actually helps me work on the anatomy and adjust the rig at the same time. But that's mostly a personal decision because it makes my workflow easier.

For the most part right now I'm focusing on the mesh and how it interacts with itself and the rig. It may seem anal and seem to take longer than it should but that's how I do it because that's how I was trained. 

~Shane

BTW  - if there are any experienced coders out there interested in giving their input on Lucas, I'd like to ask you some questions about some concepts I have that need coding. PM me please.

~Shane

Now is a good time to leave legacy methods behind.  Build for the future, not the past.

I can code, PM me :)

Quote - Now is a good time to leave legacy methods behind.  Build for the future, not the past.

Exactly. ;) That's my goal.

Quote - I can code, PM me :)

PM sent. :)

~Shane

Adjusted his posture and more work on his anatomy. Put more detail in his hands and knees. Still the same wip texture, no displacement or SSS yet but those are coming, just not important right now. 

Not sure at this point if this will be his default build. I'm thinkin about slimming him down just a bit. I'll be working on some more FBMs as his rig is fine-tuned. 

~Shane

Really, really looking good! The upper body is so excellent. Doesn't look like Tyler at all anymore. Something in the hip/thigh proportions look slightly off and a little too much muscle detail right above the knee, but other than that, seriously, he's looking awesome. Way to go, AS!

I don't believe Lucas has anything to do with Tyler. I believe he is a 100% new mesh. Am I in error Shane?

And as to slimming him down...

Don't. He'll look skinny. Make a morph to soften the musculature, perhaps, but not to make him thinner.

I still think his ankles are too thick and his hands just a smidge too large ;). And he's skinny enough IMVHO.

Otherwise...very nice, erm, muscles. LOLOL

edit Now that I look again, his hands look ok ;).

Laurie

Quote - I don't believe Lucas has anything to do with Tyler. I believe he is a 100% new mesh. Am I in error Shane?

And as to slimming him down...

Don't. He'll look skinny. Make a morph to soften the musculature, perhaps, but not to make him thinner.

As far as I know, AS has created a 100% new mesh. Lucas used to look a lot like Tyler in the face. Now...not at all, which is good. Lucas is looking more handsome in the face IMHO.

Thanks Andolaurina, and Basicwiz.

And correct, he has no relation to Tyler or any other figure, he's 100% original mesh, rig, everything. 

I thought previously you meant that his face looks like Tyler. Were you referring to his anatomy instead?

I did a little bit of work on his ears and mouth, but more of that detail will come out when his displacement maps (and skin) are finished. Right now everything is still pretty smooth. Once I get his eyes and mouth parts in (hopefully this weekend) I'll do more face close-ups but right now he's kind'a scary lookin without those. 

Now that I have some help you all can expect more regular updates.

I could keep tweaking his anatomy but I think I'm pretty happy with where he's at now, and keep in mind EVERY body part is scaleable and morphable, so if you're not happy with certain aspects of his base shape you can adjust it to suit your needs and tastes. 

Future updates and previews will demonstrate just how different he can look out of the box, and I intend for his scaling to allow for better fitting of clothing from other more popular figures.

~Shane

That's right. Just his face had looked a bit like Tyler. Now...not at all. (good thing)

I agree with others. No slimmer. He's plenty thin...could have wider hips actually. I also agree on the ankles a smidge thinner.

Quote - I still think his ankles are too thick and his hands just a smidge too large ;). And he's skinny enough IMVHO.

Otherwise...very nice, erm, muscles. LOLOL

edit Now that I look again, his hands look ok ;).

Laurie

lol thanks Laurie. 

His hands and feet are deliberately larger. In classic art large hands especially, represent strength and verility. 

This could be why some think his wrists are a bit thin or his ankles a bit thick. Thinning out his ankles make his feet look even larger than they currently are, bordering on hobbit feet lol. As it is he wears about a size 14 w US shoe. Thickening his wrists make his forearms look too muscular.

But again, everything is scaleable ;)

~Shane

Everything? LOLOL

Hmm..good deal :P

Laurie

In those images his lumbar lordosis is too prominent.  

Quote - In those images his lumbar lordosis is too prominent.  

Non-doctor speak esther. LMAO ;).

Ya mean his love handles? :P

Laurie

No sorry. The curvature of his spine.  Actually it is maybe more his thoracic kyphosis. A lot of boys do have spines like that thogh the lower back is too in and the upper back too out

Hehehe...ok ;). I was just kiddin ;).

Laurie

While we're gettin' all anatomical and such, the vastus intermedius muscle is the one that doesn't look anatomically correct at all to me. Generally the vastus intermedius, vastus lateralis and vastus medialis all look too pronounced and a bit mislocated to be anatomically correct.

Just a bit of smoothing would probably fix that on the front of the thigh. It all looks so good that it's not worth having anything anatomically off.

Obviously I flunked anatomy. LOL

I still think it's better to shrink the ankle and the feet a little than to leave the ankles thick like they are on an otherwise slender person ;). Just my take on it. LOL

Laurie

Quote - Obviously I flunked anatomy. LOL

I still think it's better to shrink the ankle and the feet a little than to leave the ankles thick like they are on an otherwise slender person ;). Just my take on it. LOL

Laurie

Yeah, I agree on the ankles/lower leg still. They just don't look right to me, a bit too thick and not tapering enough. Hands and feet look great.

Quote -
Yeah, I agree on the ankles/lower leg still. They just don't look right to me, a bit too thick and not tapering enough. Hands and feet look great.

Agreed. Thinner ankles. He looks proportionally on the short side. Size 14 feet might be Hobbit-ous already on him.

I like thicker ankles and wrist. Will look better if I morph him to be more muscular like a bodybuilder lucasfreak. Which is what I would want. I always disliked Michael 3 because when I made him muscular his wrista kind hands still looked puny. se same with freak 3.

sorry cant fix typos on my mobile phone. 

actually no - with freak 3 I think I tried to shrink down his hands.  having trouble remembering all that now.  but definitely M3 when muscled looked too skinny in the wrists and ankles.