After last months challenge I mentioned in the voting thread that I was dissapointed with the amount of people taking part. I was going to post a thread on the subject but thought otherwise until someone contacted me broaching the subject.

Now I would just like to gather the thoughts of anyone who cares to answer as to what they think of the challenges. I'm not pointing any fingers but we seem to have a lot of regulars in this forum that never enter. I'm not saying that everyone should, but compared to a few of years ago we were getting much more interest back then than now. Has your love of Bryce wained? I myself am guilty of this, I no longer feel the urge to crack open Bryce everyday like I used to and only drop in here a couple of times a week where as I'd be on here almost constantly. 

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/contest/index.php?contest_id=314

I have long championed the challenge as a great way of learning new techniques as it forces you out of your comfort zone. Last time I even posted a poster in the Bryce gallery trying to drum up more interest but we still got only a handful of participants.

Anyhow lets hear your thoughts on the matter.

The challenges are indeed a good way to learn new techniques.

If there were no challenges I suppose I would not click on the Bryce shortcut as often, it’s an incentive to finish what I started.

Of course more participants would make it more interesting, voting would be different if there is more choice available.

Joe, my interest has waned also.  Not just in the challenges but in Bryce also.  I still consider myself just a hobbiest that only learned how to use half of the program's power.  The unresolved bugs and quick releases of new features that don't work for a lot of users is discouraging. I can recite "save often because you know it is going to crash" over and over but still I will get on a roll working on scenes and mats only to encounter a fatal error at the height of my craziness.  Bummer.  Often I turn the computer off never to return to the project; the spark of the moment is gone.

Rosie and I discussed the downward slide in forum and Bryce interest a year ago.  One of the things we thought missing were the mini-tuts and mini challenges within the forum; not just the formal bi-monthly challenge.

I best liked the challenge themes that focused on specific goals in Bryce --challenges that forced participants to explore more focused possibilities. 

The abundance of content from Daz and other sources has destroyed the need and desire for users to experiment.  When is the last time someone in the forum even mentioned that arcane realm of DTE? 

So in conclusion, I only half agree with your assertion that the Bryce challenges are a way that forces you out of your comfort zone.  Too many challenges don't require one to move beyond deciding what item to select from a long list content then apply it to a scene. The most difficult part of the challenge is simply thinking up a scene rather than its execution. (my opinion)

Good point made about the content and people becoming complacent. One thing I always say to anyone is build your own models. It's far more satisfying to know that the scene created is unique to you. I like the idea of mini challenges as well. I think that could be fun and get the forum a bit more lively. 

I will take on presenting some sort of instruction and challenge within the next few days.  We will see how it is accepted.

good plan willie...I know my participation, or lack there of, is largely due to the fact I'm a musician filling in spare time with 3D apps and lately music has taken an upswing in my life. Got an iMac G5 pre intel with GarageBand (a pal's old machine...for free wheeee) and I've pretty well been recording my face off this last while...Plus summer is a comin in and I spend lots less time typing than biking or tossing a frisbee in summer...

Mia culpa..  Mia culpa....  I have not participated in a long time...  My excuse is that my computer is an old one and on an intermittent fritz...  One core...   I hate to put my system on a render for what fells like a long long time....   I also live with an elderly mom and she takes time to deal with...  besides I have lost my incentive to play with any App lately... 

If my suggestion is still worth anything....  As already implied.. Maybe, we can have specific scenes to make instead of a theme...  At least till we pick-up more participants..  

Something like " an apple tree by a farm.."  simple...

A shack.., outdoor latrine...  etc...

Wow..  There seems to be all kinds of possibilities as to why the Bryce challenge has declined so.... Some aspects I hadn't even considered for the reason...including the Bryce crashing aspect which has hit us all, no doubt.  I agree that it seems that  "save often" should be the Brycer's mantra. I really don't understand the developers putting out a new product (version of Bryce) that seems to have many operations with an overload of bugginess...  Why not clear most of that stuff up before releasing it to the paying public?  I thought this when I had Windows Millennium... what a mess that was... but it did bring in more bucks from the unsuspecting public....

I also agree about laziness in creating Bryce images that can easily come about from importing objects from Daz and other 3d creators is so easy... that putting together a Bryce scene is as challenging a putting clothes on paper dolls.... not  a lot of creating with just Bryce....  I am Sooo guilty of that... there are so many great models out there to use.... For the latest challenge, The Haunted, I have been trying to create the image using only Bryce...It is a challenge!  And because it is a challenge I am trying different tools in Bryce 7 that I hadn't used before... including the particle emmitter... that I  want to use but haven't figured how to incorporate it into my image yet...but I am trying...

I think also...but this might just be me... that when  a gauntlet is thrown down, that the entry page should be made available at the same time....  Even though we all  like to do our own thing with the images, it is sometimes "stimulating" to see early entries and say..."hey I can do something better than that " or "Gee that is awesome, I wonder what I can come up with that might be even more awesome" and puts me in a competetive mode...which is what  challenges and contests are all about... I think.

I hope to see many entries for this challenge... and those in  the future...

Steve

I haven't had the time to crack open my bryce in years. I pop in here every so often because I remember how much I loved Bryce. Sadly, I don't know when I will have time again for the fun and joy of creating.

I guess for me the main problem is lack of time... I even had to let last christmas slide without making a digital card.. which is something I've previously always been able to make time for even in the busiest of times (mostly by starting 2 months in advance and just barely getting it done by taking one or two days off of work).

I suppose if I had more time i'd gladly enter the challenge like I've done in the past.

For me too it's a lack of time. I don't even browse the galleries as much as I used to:(. I do try and check the forums every now and then. Would it be possible to get a banner image (could be small) saying 'Bryce Challenge' or something that could used to link to the challenge each month when the new challenge goes up, that could be used to link to from other sites? I have a few Bryce related sites,   and I'd be happy to post an image to link to it there to help spread the word, even if I don't always participate myself.

I think that the presentation of  Rendrosity Challenges and Contests has some issues which is not helping people find the contests and enter - the contests and challenge page needs to be updated - if you look at it the Bryce one isn't even listed. Also, if you click the Challenge sticky post, in the Bryce forum, then the Challenge page link and then 'Entry Page'  you see January's challenge!...I find this offputting - the link to the current challenge should be easy to find, direct and should be put in the challenge post. Also, there's no deadline in the post... So personally speaking I don't think that helps the situation. Make it easy for people and they'll more likely enter.

I'm not sure I would agree there is  a slide in Bryce interest at the moment - now is a great idea to push all things Bryce as DAZ has recently given the software away free. I don't think it's any great assumption that this would have increased the Bryce user base and now's the time to rope them in!:)  I would like to be able to suggest making a post about the challenge each month over at the DAZ site in the forums over there but I think that'd be a bit cheeky...:biggrin:

I assess the lack of entries to four things:

1. Lack of personal time

2. Laziness on all parts

3. Lack of interest in Challenges

4. Renderosity philosophies

I will start with number 4, because it goes to an important and often overlooked aspect of this all.

I find myself needing to remind people often that Bryce does not live in a vacuum. It's not the world of Bryce vs the world of everything else. When a new person looks at the Bryce galleries, they are judging the work based on the way it looks. Bryce "purity" is extremely misguided. Who cares what software the thing was originally modeled in? Who cares about any of that purity stuff? To say an image looks good for "Bryce standards" because it was all built in Bryce is not nearly good enough for me. It needs to look good compared to Vue and Maya too. The time it takes to make a decent model with booleans could be better used focusing on better lighting and textures. Even though we've all seen amazing things made with booleans, still boolean technology is quite minimal compared to the flexibility of true vertex modeling. Why limit onesself to just booleans?

Over the years the purists have actually caused many members to be AFRAID of doing things they shouldnt be afraid of. Afraid to import content, afraid to use some post work, afraid to push themselves to the next level. The purity talk actually hurts participation. The purity talk must stop immediately.

Number 1: Bryce gives mediocre results with very little effort. But an amazing result will take an incredible amount of work and time and preparation. Vue on the other hand, can provide amazing resutls with much less work than Bryce. People just dont seem to have the time to play as they used to.

Number 2: Goes along with number 1. Importing content does not make a user lazy by my count, but bad lighting does. The need for a swift render kills many a good scenario. We are in too much of a hurry. Its never good to be in a hurry with Bryce. If it only took minutes to build and render the scene chances are it doesnt really look that good, if you criticise it by industry standards.

Number 3: Unless you have a prize that is worth people's interest, challenge entries will continue to dwindle. Daz has been giving Bryce 7 away for months, there are literally THOUSANDS of new Bryce users over the past few months. There should be a visible uptick in user numbers soon. Still, when it comes to challenges people want to be exposed if they win, they want people to know and they want to have something to show for it. Coming up with an actual prize, even if its some free content or a store voucher would increase interest greatly.

You've hit the various nails on the head there Rashad, no 4 especially. I might even get bryce out just for a challenge

I really appreciate what you have said here, Rashad....  In challenges past I have really beat myself down for using imports, not only from 3rd party creators , but also from my own creations in Hexagon, and such...  It  really is a challenge though trying to do an awesome image, worthy of competition using Bryce only....

 I have Vue Pioneer, but I have yet to learn how to use it.  I am  unable to use Poser8 due to library/internet issues that I can't seen to resolve even with SM technical support. So Bryce is it for now....

Bryce is my favorite program with many tools that I have yet to master or even try using...  And I am in complete agreement that lighting in Bryce can make or break an image.  and Bryce7 has some lights that I don't yet understand.

I am so  in hopes that the Daz software giveaway does add to the entrants pool.  It really makes the contest a lot more fun and challenging...

Steve

I find myself nodding in agreement to much of the above.  Please don't think I was implying not using imported objects in challenges.  Most of the time the individual challenges allow it.  But it seems that too few Brycers are going beyond pasting imports into a scene file and assuming that is all there is to it.  I whole heartedly agree lighting is a major, major factor. 

I did that little tut on materials.  Maybe someone more astute than I can list out and explain some art fundamentals like the "rule of 1/3s", lines in a scene that draw your attention to the intended subject, POV and camera manipulation, depth of focus, intentional barrel distortion...    Art 101

I always seem to have problems with my computers not being up to what I want to do for a render so I tend to get a little frustrated and not do anything. Time has also been a factor over the last couple of years as well. Anyhow I will be building a new comp in September (serious saving til then) so watch this space.

Any suggestions for my dream machine would be welcome.

Cheers

GG

Orbital,

Its been sometime since i posted on the forums but after reading your post it reminded me why i stopped entering the challenges many moons ago. here is the one main reason and i tend to think a lot of other newer members may feel the same.

I noticed with all challenges that the same people entered them and out of those people i would/could say 98.5% of them are masters of bryce and doing postwork. I found it daunting to post an image in any challenge when you have people like yourself( a damn wiz at bryce) entering as well...no i'm not saying you shouldn't enter, everyone can if they want to.

All i'm saying is when you see artwork great as yours or others that worked with bryce for many years in there it makes one take a second look at their own.

Ya old friend

CD

Yo Dawg! Yep, have'nt seen you for a while. Tend to agree with what you say so how do you think it would go if the entries were in sections all with the same challenge,ie,  Master, senior, intermediate and junior for newcomers. Heres my thoughts on how this could work.

1st, all sections have the same challenge subject.

For the juniors, up to 15 entries or 2 years as a brycer regardless of whether you have won your section of the challenge you must enter the next level (intermediate).

For Intermediate, if you have won or been placed in more 5 entries or have been in that class for 2 years then you must enter the senior section.

Seniors, if you win or are placed in 10 challenges then you are a Master.

There could also be an "Open" section where all levels go head to head.

To determine the subject of each challenge the winners of each section will put forward thier suggestions to the forum moderators, moderators send completed list to those involved, then the winners and the moderators vote for thier choice, most votes becomes next challenge.

Just my thoughts on a different approach which may or may not generate more interest.

Cheers

GG 

Hiya Kiwi,

I like your suggestions it gives all that enter the challenges a fair chance. Not that i'm sure many wouldn't mind going up against the master brycers :) 

PS: i haven't posted in a long time but i have been on the forums doing some reading/catching up on things.

Yeah I figured there would always be a time when you just pull a doozie out of the bag and want to challenge the best, hence the Open category. So perhaps the option to enter your level plus the open with the same image should be available.

Cheers

GG

@crazydawg

I've sent pm to Joe lets see if he comes back. We just might be able to get some life back into the challenges and the forum as well. I so miss the old days when every time you came here there was 20+ new posts and so many helpful people on board,it was so vibrant then "along came daz----fast movin daz----smooth talkin daz".

Cheers

GG

Have been checking in on this thread and I'm pleased that there is still interest. Hopefully we can breath some life into the challenge. I'm not saying enter everyone but even if you vote at the end that will be some sort of participation. Also like Skiwillgee suggested we could have impromptu challenges in between just for the fun of it. More contribution in general can only be a good thing.

I am so glad to see some interest in this thread.  And I couldn't agree with Orbital more...any participation, be it entering or voting...being part of the overall game is great. 

I don't really know what level of Brycer I am...there is so much yet for me to learn about the program... I am more familiar with Bryce than I am any post working... I have only cropped my Bryce images in PhotoShop.... not really used many or most of the outrageously abundant tools....  I need to learn  that as well.

I've been working on the mini tut for seamless textures... I too have no idea of the stated concepts of "Art 101".... What?

Glad also to see "The Haunted" entry page up....  Still stuck on my concept...

Good luck  to everyone in this challenge.

Steve

http://gallery.artofgregmartin.com/tuts_arts/making_a_planet.html

Stve have a go at this, and also just try any photoshop tutorial even if it's not relevant. You will soon get to know how the different tools work. 

hello all

i agree with that!

"The abundance of content from Daz and other sources has destroyed the need and desire for users to experiment.  When is the last time someone in the forum even mentioned that arcane realm of DTE? 

While it's great that people have all these ideas I think you need to be careful about imposing too many rules and regulations - as soon as people have to start jumping through x number of hoops they won't bother and it'll just drive them away.

Perhaps the simplest (or least intrusive), way to retain the 'essence' of Bryce in a render would be to do away with postwork (much like this months challenge). At least that way you're using Bryce to set the tone, lighting and ambience of the scene rather than relying on image editing software to achieve it.

Maybe even shift the focus of the challenges from learning Bryce to just having fun with it - if you're having fun the learning side of it will just happen anyway and you're more likely to participate in the challenge. Everybody wins!

thanks for the PS tutorial link,Orbital...  You are right...If I just try stuff and play with it I will learn how to properly use the tools...just as I have done and continue to do in Bryce...  I don't know that I ever thought of the idea that the challenges were for "learning" Bryce...but I guess they work that way whether we know it or not...I do enjoy Bryce... and have learned from playing.... Old dogs can learn new tricks... and I'm old and I'm still learning...and having fun.

I just about have my image completed... I have finally relaxed my approach...It's for fun not ulcers.

Steve

Computer problems have caused me a few headaches. Last year, my main PC motherboard died and I've had to make do with an old board with limited memory and processing power. Originally stuck with using Windows 2000 meant Bryce and much of my other software didn't even run on it.  Have XP running now, very slowly. Hopefully getting a new computer in the next few weeks. 

On top of this excuse, being a writer, I sometimes have deadlines to meet that clash with challenge deadlines. Financially, the writing has to take priority. 

Rob.

 ____________________________________________________________

As a writer, the life and well being of thousands hangs on my every word. I can create or destroy entire worlds with the flourish of my pen.

http://lokinvar.wordpress.com/

a while ago I was encouraged to enter a challenge. I did. then a few more. I am not an artist, just a guy creating pics for the background for my computer at work. My pics are in no way competitive. But there were no votes and more importantly- no feedback. Plus- lets face it, this forum concentrates on creating in Bryce- DAZ imports and such allowed in the entries but constantly frowned on here in the forum. The program was partly created for folks like me to have fun with- not to seem like work. I go to work- when I leave, I don't want more work. So I stopped entering because it just wasn't... fun.

Beak