http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3968015&ebot_calc_page#message_3968015

And I thought that material look would be good for something I'm doing.  

Here is the screen capture of the suggested set up.

Are these due to some mistake on my part in the materials room.  Or is it something else that I am missing?  Any help very appreciated.

I think this is what you are looking for:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2854367

I think you are looking at moiré
Look for Moiré pattern in wikipedia.
A well know thing in printing, scanning procedures.

Or if you have waves on your object, as in the example also, it is the flow of the uvmap over the object file.

Moiré dissapears when you change the distance from camera. A close up should show no moiré.
Uv map flowing does not change and is allways there.

YES, now that your screengrab is there, THAT is moiré.

I've tried every angle and camera distance and still getting this.   grr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moiré_pattern

you can reduce the effect by messing with min shading rate, pattern scale, camera angle and filtering but its always going to be there in some form or another.

Alas, the builtin 2d textures do not have a filter setting, like the image-map has. So you could try to raise the number of pixel samples in the render settings and lower the shading rate. Because your weave texture has a very high frequency (20 * 65), you need to use a very low shading rate, try e.g. 0.001. That should get rid of the most moire patterns at the cost of a higher render time. It will also most likely look like there was no texture at all (other than the clouds node), because the the detail is so high that the pixels cannot record it. It could also be an option to convert the texture into an image, and then use that (because images are filtered, they often give better results for high detail textures).

IOh dear !!!!!!!!!!

Check your U and V value in the Weave node.
The origional poster had it set at 2.
You have it set at 20.
That is ten times as much, multiplied by 65 is 650 times finer tissue.

Yes, now I understand your Moiré pattern.

Reduce the 20 in the U and V scale in the Weave node.
or reduce the Multiply by 65 to something acceptable.

Happy Posering
Tony

I've been trying to get settings that minimise the moire pattern, with limited success so far. Not at my main PC at the moment but I'll post when I get a bit further along.

My luck with this today has been terrible.  Just trying to make a white material that appears to have a high thread count.  I did mess around with those 20s and the 65.  At a loss at this point.

Attached Link: http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/alpha/

It's because the Weave node is too regular and has no twist in the yarns that make it up. Real fabric behaves the way it does because fibers are twisted about each other. This affects not only the weave of the fabric (A silk taffeta and a boucle, for instance), but the behavior of the light interacting with the fabric, because at its smallest part, the light is interacting with a twisted object instead of a flat one.

Honestly, the weave you have set up in your picture does not bring to mind a high thread count fabric, either. There's a lot of spacing between the woven threads. Even moreso than in an organza. This looks more like a gauze fabric, which I'm fairly certain you're not wanting to achieve.

If you're set on using the Weave node, use it only for the Bump, not for the diffuse. Unhook it from the clouds. Don't use it on the Displacement, either, unless you're doing a macro shot where it REALLY matters. Instead, save Displacement for such details as seams and embroidery stitching.

did you try detaching the multiply2 node? (no 65X20, just 1X20)

also try losing the displacement, in case bump is good enough

maybe there's some way to add noise or change noise variable to break up the moire.

Attached Link: http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/alpha/

Attached Link: http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/downloadcenter/alpha/

There's also the problem could be in the UVmap itself.  I notice that there's not just moire there's stretching also. Since the pattern is - if I'm reading the nodes right - following the UV of the object, it's likely stretching where the uv has stretching or where the polygons are too irregularly shaped to support the image properly.

Huh...that is an odd stitch pattern on that knit one...

Quote - Huh...that is an odd stitch pattern on that knit one...

I thought the same thing. Not sure what the photo was taken from.

I am right about to start banging out some knit swatches and taking pictures of my own work to make tiling textures from for knits, heh.

Don't use Weave node. Use Texture images and take advantage of texture filtering.

The plain weave looks like a bandage anyway. It's one of those things that looked like a GREAT idea when this renderer was new, and turns out to be flawed in every way.

I'm sure people just drolled like mad over that node - in 2002.

Left figure is the Poser4 casual guy, that I know has problems here.
The 3 other figures are the PoserPro figures that I know very well.
I add a screengrab for you to see the setup.

Next to all figures are the settings for the U and V scale for the weave.

1. The results depend on the uvmap=> Heavy, more then I first thought.
2. With a good uvmap, the results are barable untill you get around 200 in U and V scale

As from the middle figure with 500 in U and V the Moiré effect starts to dominate in close ups.
At right, the u and V scale are 1000 and take completly over in a close up.

The weave node become unusable here, exept for distance shots.

Rendered with a MSR of 0.2, the lowest possible default value.

Ps; from a distance, the Moiré at higher UV settings is not visible, but the weave is gone also........

And connected into Specular_Color

Click to enlarge

(Neglected the boxes.)

Displacement at 0.1 inch.
Click

Conclusion?

Start taking cloth pictures :-)

But?? Usable for the right purposes. Not too close, not too far.

First, we're going to recreate JJ's shader on my own setup, so we have a baseline. 

Hana, Vilters - wow.  Thank you very much for your efforts on it.  However from the end result I think it's decided that I need to invest in matmatic.  : /  That looks like exactly what I need.

Ha!  I don't have to invest - it's free.  I always thought that was a sale item.  Now just have to figure out if I can redistribute a material I create with it.

O M G.  Obviously every single step of this process is going to be a nightmare.  I did get Matmatic.  I did install and verify that everything went into the right folders.  Navigated to compile.py and ran it.  Have the button.  Push it.  Some things happen.  I have demo materials in the materials runtime.  That's it.  That's all that I can get to happen.

I'm obviously missing something, because I'm sure Matmatic does more to help with materials than add a few demo materials to my runtimes.  

Read through all the documentation.  I don't see what I am missing.  

Is Matmatic suppose to be just for writing scripts?  I'm getting a headache.

Exactly that.  By designing a particular script, Matmatic will create the necessary MATRoom nodes for you.  But you will need to brush up on your math to get a certain understanding on how it works.

Oh good god.  I don't know how to write scripts.  Back to drawing board.  And all I wanted was that Linen material she showed lol. 

(rename to just .mt5, acourse)

Cool. Thanks Hana... I haven't even got as far as jjroland has with matmatic yet, although I appreciate the awesome power it can potentially wield... in the right hands

I've noticed that moire thing too, e.g. on the boy's sock in my last "Renegade's Bride" render... I just went with it on that occasion :biggrin:

Good to know some more about this particular issue...

Many thanks to Teyon for the heads up on those Pixologic alpha downloads too!

matmatic is a compiler, and you will have use for it if you want to make complex materials or a lot of variations of materials.

Yesterday I used it to generate 791 color and shine variations of a shader containing 85 nodes - a total of 67235 nodes created at the push of a button.

Then, 791 custom thumbnails were generated while I ate dinner.

Quote - matmatic is a compiler, and you will have use for it if you want to make complex materials or a lot of variations of materials.

Yesterday I used it to generate 791 color and shine variations of a shader containing 85 nodes - a total of 67235 nodes created at the push of a button.

Then, 791 custom thumbnails were generated while I ate dinner.

Nice

It is installed... and I am planning to get my head round it in due course... likely once I get to wanting to try and generate some of my own unique textures for the set I'm currently still in the process of modelling.

Is there an updated version on the cards by the way BB?

Quote - Is there an updated version on the cards by the way BB?

I have some updates to publish, yes. Not sure how important they are.

The biggest one to me is that I don't write a material file now if it already exists and has the same implementation. This is a subtlety probably lost on almost everybody.

However, when I update a few dozen out of 1000 shaders coming from a single script, this saves big time on the thumbnail generator, which can then figure out that only a few dozen thumbnails need updating.

Yup... I sure wouldn't be outputing anywhere near the volume of variations you're doing

Pretty sure you'd mentioned another feature I'd thought sounded interesting, in a discussion with Robynsveil about something... but I can't remember now what that was exactly...

...it'll be a while yet before I'm very much further on with the modelling... so not too worry :biggrin:

What would be the suggestion now, please? I'm a bit confused, I admit g

To use the MAT file, thankfully provided by Hana and include one of the alpha maps, i.e. by pixologic.com (Teyon's posts), as bump/displ.maps?

Quote - Luckily, Bill lets us redistribute anything he's posted publicly. (To do it the long way, you need to search up the linen script, which I think is at RDNA, put it in the right folder, then run matmatic, and it will generate the mt5 exactly as I'm giving it to you.)

(rename to just .mt5, acourse)

My understanding of this is that it IS permissable to redistribute this linen material with a free item?  Is that correct?  Does anyone have a link to a license for that which can be included with the file?

p.s.  I DID finally get this to work.  Though I still have no comprehension of how Matmatic creates anything.  The only button I have is compile and I don't even know what it is compiling lol.  I have no idea how to "generate materials and thumbnails with it".  However that is on my short list of things to figure out once I finish up this project.  

The linen material looks really good for my needs.  I did still get some of that morai pattern.  Although in each instance it was in the sides of the field of vision which made me think of BBs thread on making nylons.  I'm not sure if that is a factor or if that is just how it appeared.

Seriously thanks for all the participation and assistance in this thread.  I'd have given up on 3d years ago if it were not for these forums.

Quote - Luckily, Bill lets us redistribute anything he's posted publicly. (To do it the long way, you need to search up the linen script, which I think is at RDNA, put it in the right folder, then run matmatic, and it will generate the mt5 exactly as I'm giving it to you.)

(rename to just .mt5, acourse)

My understanding of this is that it IS permissable to redistribute this linen material with a free item?  Is that correct?  Does anyone have a link to a license for that which can be included with the file?

p.s.  I DID finally get this to work.  Though I still have no comprehension of how Matmatic creates anything.  The only button I have is compile and I don't even know what it is compiling lol.  I have no idea how to "generate materials and thumbnails with it".  However that is on my short list of things to figure out once I finish up this project.  

The linen material looks really good for my needs.  I did still get some of that morai pattern.  Although in each instance it was in the sides of the field of vision which made me think of BBs thread on making nylons.  I'm not sure if that is a factor or if that is just how it appeared.

Seriously thanks for all the participation and assistance in this thread.  I'd have given up on 3d years ago if it were not for these forums.