The Poser community needs a fully Asian model.

This is nobody.

::::: Opera :::::

I have a fully Asian model. I like her a lot. But you can't really make her look anything but Asian. I really hope that the answer to the Daz figures' abscence isn't 10 different figures for every sex, age and race.

Laurie

You edited your post and i posted against your first draft.

Apparently you are calling for a nonDaz model with full flexibility, like V4. I support that.

I still would like to see Miki with full blown Asian facial features.

Quote - You edited your post and i posted against your first draft.

Apparently you are calling for a nonDaz model with full flexibility, like V4. I support that.

I still would like to see Miki with full blown Asian facial features.

I know. I just wish SM would wake up and recognize that they're gonna have to supply what we can't get from the other guys anymore ;). We act like Miki's a big deal, but she's just a blip on the radar. What people are waiting for is the NEW, versitile SM figure. I guess I'm just exasperated that they don't get it yet ;)

Laurie

Quote - ...

I still would like to see Miki with full blown Asian facial features.

That's why I still use Miki 2 and Angela for that. They're both perfectly good figures. I really don't need another one ;). What I need is a good African figure actually. But I'll take one that will do em all. Weightmapped like Miki 4.

Laurie

You know I'm reminded of how a recent design for the Canadian $100 bill was pulled because one of the people depicted appeared too "Asian". The argument that was supplied was that they needed the bills to depict people who were ethnically "neutral". So they chose to use a Caucasian instead... as though Caucasian is somehow the ethnically neutral default.

You should email that image of the "nobody" Miki to the Canadian officials, that might do.

::::: Opera :::::

@ operaguy... as I said earlier, that "nobody" looks almost exactly like somebody I used to know. And yes, she was of mixed Asian (Japanese) descent. Anyway, What I meant about the eyes is that in some of those renders the lacrimals are not there as far as I can see... which is unusual regardless of race. Do people have their lacrimal glands surgically removed?

sorry, i did not mean to insult, i did not know you meant that image.

My context is now corrected to: with regard to Miki as a powerful no compromise Asian character, that image is "nobody."

if you examine closeups of some Asian faces, you will see that the fold is so pronounced that you cannot see the lacrimals at all...

http://ask-a-chinese-guy.blogspot.com/2010/08/asian-eyes.html

However, the decision to give that effect as a default for Miki4? As I said, I think it is beautiful, but frankly it should be a morph so we are at choice.

::::: Opera :::::

Oh fer Christsakes! We're talking about "Dolls". they're all nobodies.

Never had one of the Miki figures, always thought they were one of the more attractive SM characters, though. Isn't Sydney G2 also distinctly Asian looking?

Anyway, just took a closer look at that close up and I found the lacrimals... they are more pronounced on this figure than on many of the photos of real faces in your link.

Still kind of looks like they are not modeled into the eye area rather than being obscured by a fold of skin (as you would see in real eyes).

Ok, what did I come to the forum for? Oh yeah, material room question.

not if they are used in art to invoke reaity.

Yup, I just throw that "Doll" thing in every once in a while when I feel like being mischievious... although I would say that invoking an alternate reality is more of an emphasis with most poser users. Going down this line of discussion would seriously be off topic, though... I would, however, be interested in seeing more critical theory style examinations of the medium appearing as topics in the forum. I'm sure the vitriol would be THICK.

This was posted on facebook 11 hours ago, :)

Poser - 3D Figure Design ‎Katherine Poche - We have many vendors at RDNA and Renderosity

who have been developing content for the Tyler and Miki launch.

It will be up to the community to support them and encourage them to make more!

Current feedback is very positive -

we think you're going to love this pair! (Best of all, to encourage adoption and to allow you

to spend your money supporting those partners,

both figures will be free for a limited time at launch for Poser owners!)

11 hours ago ·

Since Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, I thought I would take a look at the face topology, because I gather that won't change. She doesn't cater for cheek and chin dimples as well as Alyson does. Miki 3 has dimple morphs, but they are not so effective since they create a rather large depression in the cheek. Alyson on the other hand, has loops there, so it is possible to shape a proper dimple. I think Alyson's face is more versatile than Miki's.

I am not sure what morphs will come with Miki 4. Miki 3 has rather a limited range, I think we are expected to use the face room for changes to her face, but those morphs are not quite enough. She has nice expressions, but I had to buy a morph pack from RuntimeDNA to make rather basic changes to her face, such as to give her more prominent cheekbones and shape the nose. Even with this add-on, Miki 3 is less versatile than base Alyson as far as shaping the face goes.

On the positive side, if Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, she should be able to use Miki 3 textures. 

I will be acquiring them. Hoping for something along the lines of the G2 career wear, which was neglected in Alyson, Ryan. If it is just more lingerie, schoolgirl and other fantasy wear, well........... Having that problem with Michelle.

Quote - Since Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, I thought I would take a look at the face topology, because I gather that won't change. She doesn't cater for cheek and chin dimples as well as Alyson does. Miki 3 has dimple morphs, but they are not so effective since they create a rather large depression in the cheek. Alyson on the other hand, has loops there, so it is possible to shape a proper dimple. I think Alyson's face is more versatile than Miki's.

I am not sure what morphs will come with Miki 4. Miki 3 has rather a limited range, I think we are expected to use the face room for changes to her face, but those morphs are not quite enough. She has nice expressions, but I had to buy a morph pack from RuntimeDNA to make rather basic changes to her face, such as to give her more prominent cheekbones and shape the nose. Even with this add-on, Miki 3 is less versatile than base Alyson as far as shaping the face goes.

On the positive side, if Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, she should be able to use Miki 3 textures. 

 

You're absolutely right, the time we were given didn't allow for a complete remodeling of the figure from scratch, so the topology faces some of the same positives and negatives of the original - with a few exceptions via the sculpt that I can't discuss.

 That said, Miki 3 had a lot more morphs than Miki 2 by comparison but not as many as Alyson/Ryan due in part to feedback/complaints that all those morphs were overwhelming. As I've grown more aware of during my brief time in the content team, you can't please everyone but we do try the best we can. :D I think, once you all actually see her in all her glory, you'll be pleased. These promos...well, anyway, just wait 'till you get your hands on her. If nothing else, her body shape's less bland. lol

Just my 2 cents...

I love all those morphs on ryan and alyson!  There could have been included some preset poses to help people out who dont care to delve into a LOT of dial spinning

Quote - > Quote - Since Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, I thought I would take a look at the face topology, because I gather that won't change. She doesn't cater for cheek and chin dimples as well as Alyson does. Miki 3 has dimple morphs, but they are not so effective since they create a rather large depression in the cheek. Alyson on the other hand, has loops there, so it is possible to shape a proper dimple. I think Alyson's face is more versatile than Miki's.

I am not sure what morphs will come with Miki 4. Miki 3 has rather a limited range, I think we are expected to use the face room for changes to her face, but those morphs are not quite enough. She has nice expressions, but I had to buy a morph pack from RuntimeDNA to make rather basic changes to her face, such as to give her more prominent cheekbones and shape the nose. Even with this add-on, Miki 3 is less versatile than base Alyson as far as shaping the face goes.

On the positive side, if Miki 4 is a sculpt of Miki 3, she should be able to use Miki 3 textures. 

 

 

You're absolutely right, the time we were given didn't allow for a complete remodeling of the figure from scratch, so the topology faces some of the same positives and negatives of the original - with a few exceptions via the sculpt that I can't discuss.

 That said, Miki 3 had a lot more morphs than Miki 2 by comparison but not as many as Alyson/Ryan due in part to feedback/complaints that all those morphs were overwhelming. As I've grown more aware of during my brief time in the content team, you can't please everyone but we do try the best we can. :D I think, once you all actually see her in all her glory, you'll be pleased. These promos...well, anyway, just wait 'till you get your hands on her. If nothing else, her body shape's less bland. lol

Quote - Teyon what about the crab/spider/boney hands per my image higher up in this thread, and here...?

You know, I'm going to say I'm not sure. I don't recall if we added weight to them or not. I think we did but the hands were a point we kept coming back to, so I have memory of both increasing and decreasing mass.  So I can't say for sure if you'll be satisfied with them but they were worked on. That I can tell you.

Quote - No offense, but the Poser community doesn't need a figure that's only Asian, or only African or only Caucasion. We need a figure that will go from one to the other with ease. I'm not about to go to the competion, but I'd like a figure that will fill the void that Vicky and Mike left. I mean, I don't think at all that Miki is it. But I'm always hoping for that one figure that everyone will wanna use. It could have been Anastasia and Tyler if SM had done the smart thing and supplied those as the BASE but with morphs that will augment them, not the standard, butt ugly base figures we have now. No offense to SM but if you don't want your software to fade into obscurity, then you have to have a clue that you are now responsible for the perpetuity of your program now that Daz isn't. And Daz only was by popular demand. Make figures that are as versitile. Supply figures in the program that people will actually USE. Keep Miki as Asian, because that's how she started, but at least give her a male counterpart. Children. Anything. Create one that will go from one to the other as the Daz figures did. Then you might get the market share Daz had. That can only be GOOD for Smith Micro and the Poser team. But why was all the time and energy and I'm sure money, on ONE Asian figure. I'm sorta left scratching my head.

Laurie

I'll go one better than this.  Not only do the new SM characters need to be versatile enough to morph into various races, ala African features, Asian, European, Indian, Arabic, Native American, the list goes on and on.. but, those of use who do fantasy work will want to be able to make convincing elves, dwarves, hobbits and even trolls, goblins, etc.  I hope morph packs will be available that will expand the morph targes enough to dial spin these types of characters.

I know we have the face room and I'll probably end up playing with both Tyler and Mikki4 in there and seeing what I can do.

I have to say upon looking at both characters I'm cautiously optimistic that they are a good base to start with.

thanks for replying teyon

As i stated previously, naturally I support an SM model that can serve as a neutral base. I just did not think that is or would be "Miki" who is clearly Asian-intended.

So is this reality? "Miki" is the primary base female model for SM?

Yes, bring on the morph packs!

I need to do African ethnic faces quite a lot - it is my environment and I use Poser for work-related purposes - my African faces need look convincing to African people. I can tell you already that Alyson does African much better than Miki. More versatile topology, better morphs for nose and lips. You don't have to start with Alisha either - the Alyson base face is more versatile than Alisha, and allows you to get more different looks. I don't want all my African characters to look as if they are related.

If anyone wants to make morph packs for Smith Micro figures, I am a customer. The full body morphs don't give me the flexibility I need. I separated out the head morphs on Shae and Alyson, but actually I would rather have a morph pack for the different body parts - that gives me more control and versatility than a full body morph. Gorgeous as Anastasia is, she is very recognisable, and I don't want one morph to dominate.

I'll continue making head morphs and textures as I need them, for Miki as well - I enjoy doing them. But I am hoping for more morphs and textures in the marketplace for Miki 4 and also for Tyler.

Quote - As i stated previously, naturally I support an SM model that can serve as a neutral base. I just did not think that is or would be "Miki" who is clearly Asian-intended.

So is this reality? "Miki" is the primary base female model for SM?

 

 

As far as that goes... I wouldn't read into it.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I mean, she's the only character I think we sell separate from the application but I don't think - and I can't go into why - that she's the primary base female for us going forward. She's just a popular figure that deserved a weight mapped update from us along with a more realistic form and a few extras.

The future is constantly changing though, so I could be wrong but I have a strong feeling I'm not. 

Edit: For me, a good idea would be to have one base for each body type (not each ethnicity but each physical body type) and build a range of ethnic characters that fit within those 3 to 5 body types. It would, in my opinion, lend itself better to start with an overweight figure if my goal is to build one than it would to start from a figure with hard muscle cuts and try and get it to be overweight.  Or...we could just forgo cuts all together, opting instead for a mesh that is designed for articulation, which would be my true ideal, as I feel muscle cuts only limit what you're able to do with the mesh.  But we're getting off topic and I have to do laundry, lol. Speculate on, my friends. Speculate on.

Miki is Miki. I accept! Bring her on.

Teyon, you just gave one small smidgeon of hope. Maybe not confidence yet, but hope ;).

Laurie

Me too - I like Miki enough that I purchased both Miki 2 and Miki 3. I'll use Miki 4 as well, and I really like the look of the toned body. The hands don't bother me at all, I think they look fine.

Looking forward to the weightmapped G2 figures - I am assuming those will come....? I love the G2s.

I believe that Olivia, Kelvin, G2 Jessi and G2 James and G2 Koji are also sold separately (not only Miki). I have them all and use them - they have excellent clothes, and Cyllan's characters for the G2 figures are great.

Quote - Teyon, you just gave one small smidgeon of hope. Maybe not confidence yet, but hope ;).

Laurie

Hmmmmm... tugs at imaginary beard intriguing

By the way, if I make a facial morph using Face Room, I take it I can punt the results of that into ZBrush using GoZ, to refine it?

Free? Very cool, if so

I am Jack's eager anticipation, waiting for Tyler too. He looks good

I like them.  I'll definitely give them a shot.

I agree with OperaGuy about preferring an Asian-looking Miki.  Miki 1 is still one of my favorites, because she looks Asian and her face is so expressive. 

The idea of having one figure that can be anything is great in theory, but so far, the practice has fallen short.  The various ethnic morphs for Vicky and Mike rarely look very good, and they often don't combine well with the expression morphs. 

I thought that G2 thing with different ethnic characters was a good idea.  James and Jessi, Koji and Miki, Olivia and Kelvin.  Didn't care for the G2 figures that much (though I did get them all), but I liked that  idea.

Quote - .....If nothing else, her body shape's less bland. lol

Her body shape is looking very nice indeedy! :)

The various ethnic morphs for Vicky and Mike rarely look very good, and they often don't combine well with the expression morphs.

An ethnic morph (or any other) that doesn't combine well with an expression morph should be reconciled with a correction morph that is driven by the expression dial with standard ERC and valueOpTimes (multiplied) by the ethnic morph dial. In this way, the correction morph will kick in automatically when the ethnic morph is used and will remain turned off if it isn't since 1*0=0. Maybe you can't do this stuff in Daz Studio, but Smith Micro has no excuse.

I hope that Miki4 doesn't have the same issue with her breasts not lifting when her arm/shoulder lifts like Alyson2 does. I also hope the butt vagina thing doesn't happen when you bend her knees all the way up like Alyson2 does either.

We have seen a few pics, we have had a certain amount of information.

As they are both going to be free for a limited time, I'm willing top wait that small bit of time to get them.

It has been said that content makers are making things for them, so no doubt there will be X amount of items at launch.

So, it's just a matter of waiting.

All the best.

LROG

Well I hope that content flows after the launch. I'm tired of falling into this trap of getting a new figure, bundle with content at launch and then tumbleweeds start rolling across my screen in their content folders a month later.

Quote -
 Not only do the new SM characters need to be versatile enough to morph into various races, ala African features, Asian, European, Indian, Arabic, Native American, the list goes on and on.. but, those of use who do fantasy work will want to be able to make convincing elves, dwarves, hobbits and even trolls, goblins, etc.  I hope morph packs will be available that will expand the morph targes enough to dial spin these types of characters.

I know we have the face room and I'll probably end up playing with both Tyler and Mikki4 in there and seeing what I can do.

I have to say upon looking at both characters I'm cautiously optimistic that they are a good base to start with.

It can be done as long as the geometry is there to acheive it. This is why poser meshes need more geometry - at least in certain areas like the face - in order to pull off the various believable ethnicities. The less geometry there is to work with, the more like the base mesh the model will always look, no matter how much morphing you try to do. You can't get around that if the mesh is too low-res. 

~Shane

Quote - I'll go one better than this.  Not only do the new SM characters need to be versatile enough to morph into various races, ala African features, Asian, European, Indian, Arabic, Native American, the list goes on and on.. but, those of use who do fantasy work will want to be able to make convincing elves, dwarves, hobbits and even trolls, goblins, etc.  I hope morph packs will be available that will expand the morph targes enough to dial spin these types of characters. I know we have the face room and I'll probably end up playing with both Tyler and Mikki4 in there and seeing what I can do.

I have to say upon looking at both characters I'm cautiously optimistic that they are a good base to start with.

This!

Quote - > Quote - I'll go one better than this.  Not only do the new SM characters need to be versatile enough to morph into various races, ala African features, Asian, European, Indian, Arabic, Native American, the list goes on and on.. but, those of use who do fantasy work will want to be able to make convincing elves, dwarves, hobbits and even trolls, goblins, etc.  I hope morph packs will be available that will expand the morph targes enough to dial spin these types of characters. I know we have the face room and I'll probably end up playing with both Tyler and Mikki4 in there and seeing what I can do.

I have to say upon looking at both characters I'm cautiously optimistic that they are a good base to start with.

This!

Agreed. A blank canvas is what we needed to go forward with. A NEW FIGURE. I wanted a blank page, not one with a character already drawn on. SM does not understand what the community needs, period. One would think they would have an answer to Genesis. If Tyler and Miki4 is their answer to the Genesis onslaught, then they are truly clueless. These two will be forgotten in a few months, with only V4, m4 and Genesis retaining the title of the most used figures. SM you had your chance to make a change, instead you released morphs for your crappy unused figures. No offence to the guys who created these morphs, they are beautiful. BUT they are stained with the name of failed base figures that failed to make any real impact on the market space.

I think if you re-read the previous page, V01f, you'll see some insight, which indicates these aren't, apparently, intended to be the blank canvas, to the extent at least, that you're looking for?

It sounds like there is something else in the pipeline, on that front...

I think these two releases are simply what they are... a male character, in the vein of Anastasia for Alyson2, for Ryan2... also by Blackhearted, but sponsored by SM... and the long awaited, weight mapped, next iteration of Miki.

I very much welcome them on that basis.

There is no Gen5 onslaught relative to Poser, is there? Not yet...

Poser users, for the most part, aside from a few experimentalists, I think... and some defectors, prepared to compromise certain things, perhaps... are still waiting on that front to... aren't they?

It looks kind of like something more is on its way, relative to the blank canvas you mention. There are mutterings of it from both SM and Daz, that we've heard on the wind here.

Another project, seemingly now abandoned, might provide some clues too, eh?

Is what's coming from either party tangible as yet? Is it the same thing even???

Your guess is as good as mine... he he.

puts away the large wooden spoon

Cheers

Dude I hope you're right. I want to see SM put effort into creating something new, something with great versatility, not just another WMversion of something old. There needs to be some focus here. There are simply too many figures appearing distracting and splitting up Users & Vendors. This is why they end up sticking to the tried and tested.

Quote - Dude I hope you're right. I want to see SM put effort into creating something new, something with great versatility, not just another WMversion of something old. There needs to be some focus here. There are simply too many figures appearing distracting and splitting up Users & Vendors. This is why they end up sticking to the tried and tested.

quoted for agreement.

Laurie

Quote - Dude I hope you're right. I want to see SM put effort into creating something new, something with great versatility, not just another WMversion of something old. There needs to be some focus here. There are simply too many figures appearing distracting and splitting up Users & Vendors. This is why they end up sticking to the tried and tested.

Well, I'm guessing, unfortunately for us impatient so and sos, it'll be nearer the end of the year before we find out anything for sure on that...

So, I'll be putting Miki4 and Tyler through their paces in the shorter term... in addition to Michelle, as she develops... and with the continued mainstays of V4, M4 and K4... I expect.

I am also doing some limited experiments with Gen5 myself, using the CR2 exporter etc... but mostly just for the heck of it. The indications from Daz of something, possibly, more Poser friendly, in the works there make me think I'm best waiting to see what transpires, on that front... and reassess the usefullness of Gen5 to me then.

Maybe we'll see some more of ExistentialDisorder's Lucas, and other figures too, soon? I reckon that's a very interesting, independent front to be watching the developments in as well...

...I'm with you on the need for something to stem excessive figure fragmentation, in terms of having a healthy marketplace... well, in terms of allowing sustainable vendor business models, at least... I'd imagine... but I also think a degree of diversity is likely good, for driving innovation, customer choice, etc, and carving some nice niches for key vendors to make their own, perhaps?

the idea of having a choice of at least a handful of different, quality figures definitely works for me...

...but I would still like to see a solid successor to the Gen4 family, geared for Poser.

The trouble is there's been nothing so far that's really innovative ;). Yet.

Laurie

That is Very true. Would be a different story if all these new figures came out with something special. A feature that stands out. Right now all we are doing is comparing which bends better or what one is the ugliest, but nothing innovative.

Those that are worried about content, perhaps it is time to dust off one of those free 3D packages and do a bit of experimentation in making some things.

Dynamics are quite easy to do as you don't need top rig anything.

This way you can add to the future content when the new figures are released.

All the best.

LROG

Well bending is important... as is beauty. Especially where feet are concerned eh, Laurie?

How're you finding Miki4 and Tyler's feet so far, by the way??

Quote - Well bending is important... as is beauty. Especially where feet are concerned eh, Laurie?

How're you finding Miki4 and Tyler's feet so far, by the way??

They look fine I guess.

I don't really require beauty so much as versatility really. I mean, who would argue that Vicky 4 looks rather alien-ish in her default state ;). She can however be transformed into nearly any race and body type. What's more her morphs (as are all the Daz figures) still the best thing going in figures we've had for Poser. I realize this takes a tremendous amount of time and resources to accomplish, that's why there were so many years between one version and the next ;). All I wanna see is someone make something comparable and put their own unique, but every bit quality spin on it. As far as I'm concerned it can have hooves if I can change it to feet, to paws, to whatever.

I can only imagine what a nightmare it's been for the vendors having to choose between every Tom, Dick and Mary new figure that's coming out lately ;). I guess I can't blame em for sticking with one that they know is a sure thing.

Laurie