Quote - Literally, it means "long may your chimney smoke". I guess you can run with the metaphor from there...

ROFLMAO. I'm not even going to BEGIN going all the places that could lead me! VERY good one!

I think you're doing the right thing, and thanks for the effort.  Too many times, a really useful and interesting thread ends up locked.  I'd rather have the derailing posts removed, including my own, than have useful threads locked.

I've never been a mod here, but I am at other sites, and I know it's not easy.  A large site like Slashdot needs community moderation, but a small one like this works best as a benevolent dictatorship.  Rules, warnings, etc. are like catnip to the wannabe Internet lawyers out there.  Some people live to skirt rules, try to turn mods against each other, and see how far they can get before the banhammer falls.  It's a huge time sink, and just not worth it. 

Ok everybody seems to think that the ignore button is the best idea. So go here http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2853353 where basicwiz put in a request and put your 2 cents worth in. Perhaps, like a petition, if enough of us make the request, they will listen.

Put in my vote!

All the best.

LROG

Another 'for' vote added.

I've been beggng for an ignore button pretty much forever.   Things were looking up for one a while back but nothing ever came of it :sadface:

I've always been abivalent - at best - about the Ignore button.  I'd rather the problem be tackled at source than hidden from sight.

Sorry, chaps; I ain't voting for it.

I am on record in pretty much every thread like this as being in full support of Basicwiz and all he does and tries to do, and I am so again, but . . .

There is a difference between not feedng a troll and slaying it.  Pushing one away with warnings, cleaning up after it with post deletions, and pretending it does not exist with any form of ignore feature are all useless.

Ban the beasts.  Put a guard at the gate and just kill the things when they appear.

I forget where I read this - maybe I made it up when I was tired and forgot:  "Zombies are not pets - even the cutest ones will, at some point, will require a shotgun blast to the head."

Pulling the trigger on one will probably not deter then next, but it should be easier than arm wresting a programmer for ignore codes and spending hours removing comments.

I'll add my 2c because it is relevant.

To start with, I imagine Modding is a PITA.  You can never please everyone all the time and I imagine there are many situations similar to dealings I have with my children.  Where at some point I send everyone to their rooms and tell them I don't give a crap who is right.

So to note:  I can understand why Mods get to the point they do and decide to take extreme actions to get things under control.

However from my perspective.  That is actually probably the number 1 reason I had previously left the community.  There were different mods then.  Some had favorites and it was obvious.  Those people could post anything they wanted.  Nobody could respond without getting warnings or bans.  

Back then there was really no way to debate either.  Those certain people would jump in and make it a personal attack fest.  I am a grown up and a big fan of healthy debate.  I despise personal attacks though, I think people use them when they can't come up with intelligent arguments.

Well when I left the forums, I left the store, and left 3d altogether for a long while.  It was such a massive turn off, the whole thing.

I'm personally VERY opinionated.  I feel that this policy will cause me to avoid commenting on requests for opinions or any sort of debated topic.  I think I am mostly in LaurieAs camp on this one.

I imagine this is a problem that will go on forever until Mods are given better tools.  I do not envy your job, not one single bit.

Some part of me just wishes this thread could have been called "If you can't say anything nice, just fuck right off".  :)

Quote - We already have the facility to add advisories to our posts ('language', 'nudity' etc.).

Why not two more: 'Off topic' and 'Warning'?

The 'off topic' advisory would normally be applied by the poster. It would allow for diverse discussion to happen within a thread, and yet make it easy for people to view the whole thread without those posts by modifying their forum profile to ignore off topic posts.

I'd love to see this one.

Quote - Some part of me just wishes this thread could have been called "If you can't say anything nice, just fuck right off".  :)

lmao Sam.  Some part of me agrees with some part of you.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2831176

"I'm not sure how well it works, but last year, a script was posted in the HTML forum that's basically an "ignore" feature for Renderosity. It works through greasemonkey in Firefox, so it's got a limited scope of use."

Argh, my great idea has been done already? And just as I was about to suggest it.

Yeah, that should be possible. I had something that would reformat pages on the fly, removing ads, formatting text etc. The name escapes me but it worked in Opera and there may have been one version for all browsers - you can do quite a bit of portable stuff with Javascript AFAIK. Of course, it would be better to have it built in.

As long as we're dreaming, I'd like to have (private access) to a count of the number of times I've been ignored (not by who), with perhaps the ability to reset it. The ignore count by thread would be awesome but a simple count would do. If you want something more public, some forums have thumbs up/down buttons (per post)  with a count of each. In fact that would be the most granular way of feedback. As always, a few would probably abuse it thumbing down their enemies everytime - hopefully only a tiny minority. OTOH, some may legitimately dislike a comment but not want to say anything for whatever reason. Giving the 'silent majority' a way to respond might help. Oh crap, did I just do Nixon? Forget it.

@ Sam - perhaps you could talk privately to those pissing you off (without references to hidings, punch ups etc. of course :-) 

It would be nice to give my personal ignore a rest with a button. I might be missing some things but sometimes renderosity reminds me of swimming in shark infested water - there are some people here that can't wait to bite someone in the ass. 

Which is really a shame because there is a wealth of information here and a lot of people that are happy to help and contribute to the understanding of Poser, 3D graphics, and other matters.

It has to be hard striking a balance between little moderation and the candyland special.

You've got to start somewhere, at sometime so I really honestly wish you much luck.  I hope you can retain your sense of humor while monitoring mostly adults, preschoolers would probably be eaisier but I think you already know that. ;-)

forum community is slower these days.  i'm reading threads i would normally skip over.

like there's some cranky aunts and uncles. lol

i think they/(us) sometimes just need someone to give a little attention, doesn't hurt to humor  a little.   They're prolly yelling "don't patronize me" 

Not only am I all for an "ignore" feature, I would like to see a "report post/thread" feature.  

And just a heads up guys, when quoting someone who has had to use the "language" tag.... you have to tag your post as well.  

Good. One more for the ignore crowd ;). As was suggested, I did employ that ignore script that was posted. Works like a dream with Scriptish. But I use Firefox and I'm sure not everyone does. An ignore feature is something only every OTHER forum I visit has ;). I'm not entirely sure why the powers that be here are so dead set against it.

Laurie

it might just be me and my rose tinted spectacles, but apart from one locked thread since this thread started, there seems to be a genuine improvement in the way rebuttals are being handled in a few current threads. it's actually quite pleasant to be posting :)

hatemail as usual to plzbenice@gmail.com

I agree, Mystic.  As far as I can see, things are a little better.  At the moment.

Quote - it might just be me and my rose tinted spectacles, but apart from one locked thread since this thread started, there seems to be a genuine improvement in the way rebuttals are being handled in a few current threads. it's actually quite pleasant to be posting :)

hatemail as usual to plzbenice@gmail.com

I think folks are just ignoring the issues.

New here, but idea: why not OT Forum? Then people express  badly in one place?...;)

my vote would be for everybody to try to be nice.  then they wouldn't have all these problems here.  the OT forum idea has been tried, but it doesn't work well IMVHO.  they want to post here, where it gets the most attention.

Quote - New here, but idea: why not OT Forum? Then people express  badly in one place?...;)

It's been tried.  Much like communism... it's a good idea on paper.  Reality was a whole other can of worms.  :)

Quote - Not only am I all for an "ignore" feature, I would like to see a "report post/thread" feature.  

And just a heads up guys, when quoting someone who has had to use the "language" tag.... you have to tag your post as well.  

+1 on both of these.

And as unpopular as my opinion might be, I'm all for showing troublemakers the door with a 3 strikes system. You get three strikes in a year, and if you exceed them, you get a timeout for the rest of the year.

I always point out zbrush central as a great 3d forum model. they have a zero tolerance policy for problem children.

While it might diminish the quantity of the online community, I think it increase the quality, and I'm all for quality vs quantity.

Oh, and another +1 for the ignore button! ;)

Time to bring it back to the live feeds :)

Seriously though, can we put a sticky on this topic and leave it floating just to nudge the odd memory or two ?

I think the thread should have been titled, "If you can't say something nice, say something funny"?

Also, with all this talk of an ignore button... I think we forgot about Blackhearted's excellent, earlier suggestion relative to the "Llama" technique?

:biggrin:

The "Llama" technique? What's that? Spitting? I guess it's too early in the morning or I'll need to reread the thread ;).

Laurie

As I recall, he'd suggested that persistent offenders have their profile pic forcibly replaced with an image of a Llama, and then the forum software would replace the words in their posts with some sort of onomatopoeic representation of Llama sounds...

I guess such functionality could be built into the personal "ignore" button idea. So instead of ignoring someone, you could apply a personal "Llama" filter to them?

LOL :lol:

Quote - As I recall, he'd suggested that persistent offenders have their profile pic forcibly replaced with an image of a Llama, and then the forum software would replace the words in their posts with some sort of onomatopoeic representation of Llama sounds...

I guess such functionality could be built into the personal "ignore" button idea. So instead of ignoring someone, you could apply a personal "Llama" filter to them?

LOL :lol:

Ahhhh..right. But spitting wouldn't be bad either ;). For firefox, the script works well enough, tho I still think they need to build it into the site. For whatever reason, the script doesn't work ALL the time, and I can't figure out why, as I don't understand javascript. LOL. However, what's been working the best for me is just staying off the site. I hate to say that, but the deletion of posts with no warning just disgusted me that much, and I've only been back to answer the odd question now and then ;). I'd rather do the censorship myself than have someone else do it for me...heh.

Laurie

This message has been Censored by the appopriate authorities under Sect 19 SubSect 2 of the 1972 Act as amended by the 1999 Bill and redesignated by the 2011 Meaningless Post Act

I thought it seemed a bit quiet round here Laurie! He he

Although been a bit scarce here myself, probably... but more due to being up to my eyes with a mixture of work and man-flu last couple of weeks.

EDIT: on an aside... does anyone else experience the feeling that "forum time" seems to pass differently to "real world time"?

It would be good if they can come up with a solution that doesn't involve "disappearances" of posts without warning... certainly.

I appreciate it's a pretty tricky balance for the mods to strike, of course...

I think it's a complex life problem, there's them you get on with and there's them that irritate the hell outta ya, in the real world we have to deal with our emotions and/or tempers or finish up with a black eye or the sack lol.

For some reason, call it a manifestation of electronic messaging/impersonal contact/or plain bad manners, there's always gonna be those that can't don't or won't communicate in a manner that most of us deem acceptable or moderate.

I don't think there is an answer, apart from Get Over it and get on with what really matters, which is your health and your family.

I've changed my Hatemail address, as i haven't been getting any lately ;)

you can send abuse to my new address simoncowell@sycoinc.com

Hatemail address? I should probably get one of those....

Laurie

I think the lack of manners is apparent in places such as YouTube, which operates more like a playground for the socially violent.

Here, though, it seems to be more a matter of miscommunication. I see an awful lot of posts that look fine to me, or are maybe slightly abrupt, but which are taken sometimes as though initiating a world war. Some people are extremely sensitive, and once they're certain that they've been targeted, seem unable to back down. It's hard for the other person to apologize for being rude under these circumstances when their words have clearly been misinterpreted.

Also, people's tolerance for disagreement varies dramatically. What looks like a fight to one person, might simply be a passionate debate to someone else.

I think ordinary denizens of the internet lack face-saving techniques more than anything.

Laurie, don't forget to turn the Spam filter off, you really know you've made the grade when you start to get Hatemail from advertising bots  :b_lipssealed:

Indeed... good points Moriador, I think.

Youtube comments so often seem to me to read like the babblings from a well of attrocified souls... just mindless, violent, esteemless and sexually disturbed gibberish.... for the most part. The manifestation of this is not always proportionate to the quality of the posted video content either.

As well as face-saving techniques, I think most people also lack the team of lawyers and PR people that I have at my disposal, vetting everything I post... in triplicate.

Oh, hang on, I forgot... I think I established that those guys are all just in my head...

Quote - Laurie, don't forget to turn the Spam filter off, you really know you've made the grade when you start to get Hatemail from advertising bots  :b_lipssealed:

Man... there's a whole three more sections of "smileys" there I'd totally not noticed!

See, if people only used the emoticons more, maybe that'd help? :rolleyes:

Quote - I think it's a complex life problem, there's them you get on with and there's them that irritate the hell outta ya, in the real world we have to deal with our emotions and/or tempers or finish up with a black eye or the sack lol.

Maybe in addition to the "ignore" button we need a "punch in face" button? LOL :lol:

Oh yeah... also I noted recently that RDNA's forum has a "reputation" icon under each post, just next to the "report post" button... you can rate the post and poster (with an approve or disapprove) and even comment on it.

Standard sort of thing really, I suppose...

Not sure how much this feature is used there...

What do folk think of this sort of feature?

It's kind of akin to the Facebook "like" button, I guess... only you can "dis" too

I don't think a Reputation button is a good idea.  Not when it can be clicked for a simple disagreement.  

Many commenting systems involve a thumbs up/thumbs down for each post or comment. Sure a person could get a single thumbs down because someone else disagreed with them, but that wouldn't have to necessarily be a bad thing. Just sort of like saying to a room of people, "Raise your hand if you want jellyfish for lunch!" and getting only a few groans, or "Who wants chocolate?" and hearing a roar of cheers.

The usefulness, though, might be for those people who believe that they have a problem with only one or two other forum members. Seeing that your post got 25 thumbs down might persuade you that you're not as well supported as you think and that it's not just one person who's got an issue with your post.

I'm a believer in natural sorts of social control. In the real world, if you say something dumb or kind of offensive in the lunch room, you get feedback in the form of raised eyebrows, groans, rolled eyes. Here there are only two ways to indicate your mild disapproval -- silence, or direct confrontation. And silence only works if nobody takes pity on serial offenders.

Thumbs up and down, though, would be a gentle way to lodge disagreement or agreement, without further inflaming.

A good point well taken but I still have my doubts about it's usefulness.  I see more complaints than good coming from it.   I would still rather see an ignore feature.  (although I really like the Llama idea)  

I would be SO DOWN for the llama fature!!!!!

Quote - I don't think a Reputation button is a good idea.  Not when it can be clicked for a simple disagreement.  

I agree. Ignore's plenty...even an ignore that's not capable of telling the ignored that they're....ignored. LOL. Anonymous. One can block the people they want in complete privacy and censor themselves. Just think how nice that would be for the mods. LOL.

Laurie

I'm up for the Llamas idea, maybe we could add a shaved Llama icon too :) at least the wool would come in handy ;)

Again, I think all these "enhancements" are unnecessary.  Just kick the arses of the ones who cause trouble.  Do it consistently and things will change.  Once this place gets known as somewhere that doesn't tolerate idiots it will get a lot better.

As for the people with fragile cut glass egoes that can't take disagreements without throwing a strop and acting like a child, grow the fuck up.  This is the internet, fer crissakes, you don't own it and you're not entitled to have your arse kissed.

There, that should do it.  :) 

Do I turn thumbs down if some says figure X is the best and I prefer Y, of if they say that .pp2 is a pose file and I think its not, or if I agree with their statement but don't like their attitude? What if they do all three in the same post? I see problems with consistency - even if it were used in good faith and not as a weapon - which it would be. Keep it simple with an ignore button.

I agree with Sam that such gadgetry should be unnecessary. If everyone always behaved in a way that everyone else agreed with, we wouldn't need police or lawyers or a lot of other things as well. Given the average age of the membership here, saying GTFU is about like 'Just Say No' to sex, drugs and cheating on your taxes i.e. ain't gonna happen. The advantage of having moderators do the disciplining is that they, at least in theory, are a reasonably fair and neutral authority.

I like the lunchroom example but I'm not really sure how well real world behavior transfers to the internet. There may be a difference between cyberspace and being able to see and even know your peers, interpret their body language etc. It may be that all the real world propensity for cliques, mobs, vigilante justice and petty squabbles are magnified by the anonymity and the temptation to post without thinking. I'm anti-authoritarian by nature but in this environment I'm just not sure that depending on self discipline works.

sam, mods may find that neither the iron fist nor the velvet glove is conducive to peace and happiness here.  my only suggestion is that ..... no, wait, haven't got any.  many things have been tried here, and methods must continue to evolve IMVHO.