I am certain that the vast majority of Poser content creators are hobbyists, at least from the standpoint of the IRS when you consider yearly earnings. There are exceptions, of course, but many of these merchant superstars become less than thrilled with the Poser market over time and move on.

One major difference between a pro and a hobbyist is that the pro has a bottom line and carefully watches the balance of time verses profits. A hobbyist, on the other hand, might invest years into making something of quality that works right, ignoring what the professional would view as a practical time window and just compensation. It is mistaken to assume that hobbyists produce only worthless junk. 

The labels can be a problem. There are 'hobbyists' doing top quality work and 'professionals' doing lesser quality stuff. Not every hobbyist is an exacting, time be darned type and there are professionals who do take more of that approach.

Anyone who thinks hobbyists produce only worthless junk is almost willfully ignorant. It's just as foolish to think that just because someone makes a living at doing something that they are necessarily very good at it. Quality speaks for itself. Whether the creator makes money off something is an entirely different, and often unrelated thing.

Some of the best CGI Artist make content.
Thay might not make what ILM makes but there just as good as any CGI Artist around.
It's sad to think venders would only make a $1000 a year.
You could make that at MickyD's in a month.

Another thing to consider is that the hobbyist will most likely create what they like and not target a specific audience like a professional vendor should.

I am most assuredly a hobbiest. The few things I have put out there were things I made for myself that turned out so well I wanted to share them.

And I WISH I made $1000/year off them! ROFL. I actually make more doing custom renders for people!

Quote - The labels can be a problem. There are 'hobbyists' doing top quality work and 'professionals' doing lesser quality stuff. Not every hobbyist is an exacting, time be darned type and there are professionals who do take more of that approach.

Anyone who thinks hobbyists produce only worthless junk is almost willfully ignorant. It's just as foolish to think that just because someone makes a living at doing something that they are necessarily very good at it. Quality speaks for itself. Whether the creator makes money off something is an entirely different, and often unrelated thing.

Quoted for agreement.

Laurie

One of the big differences between the hobbyist and Pro I think is speed and making a deadline. A client will most likely give you the project at the last minute and want it done in a matter of days. Its the speed and knocking things out quickly that really is the dif. I think like building furniture, a talented hobbiest will always do a superior job to a commercial product. I could never do this working for someone else, I'm way tooooo slow!!!!!

The professional Must have the Emotional maturity to withstand the subjective opinions of his/her clients even if they dont agree with them....trust me!!
Just make sure you have a proper written contract defining the terms of client revisions and when they shoot down your latest revision don't get mad...$$get paid$$

IMHO this term "hobbyiest" has been re defined by some in the poser renderosity online community to mean: "Since you nor anyone is paying me to do this.. no objective criticism, even of my technical use/nonuse of the softwares features, is permitted"

This mentality is responsible for alot of the hurt feelings that apparently occur here.

Cheers

I tend to disagree slightly with you there Wolf, I actually think what has happened is that the advances in the software have left some of us behind, playing catch up, therefore in many instances the divide is getting greater between some pros and some hobbyists.

and as a matter of interest, my definition of a Pro is someone who gets paid for producing anything and as such is probably open to a higher level of scrutiny than any amateur hobbyist, poor things.......And finally, i don't think that the mentality you mention is the issue for people having their feelings hurt, I think in many cases it is the tone of the critique poster and very often, I regret to say, the forum history of the critic in question......

Quote - ....And finally, i don't think that the mentality you mention is the issue for people having their feelings hurt, I think in many cases it is the tone of the critique poster and very often, I regret to say, the forum history of the critic in question......

Amen, amen, and amen!

Somewhat on the line of what Wolfie said, but:

I spent 44 years in the metalworling trades, and the knowledge and experiences I had go far beyond what most of the people working in factories or job shops have.  I was given the opportunity to learn the metalworking end well enough to work as s tool and diemaker, toolroom machinist, and probably the most challenging, gage technician, where it was a complete rethink of everything.  The machinist or machine operator on a factory floor works in thousandths of an inch, I had to learn to work in millionths of an inch. Whoopie.

But!  There were many  times when work came into the shop, the last one I worked in, that were something a customer thought he wanted, then found it would be so expensive to do that it wasn't really practical.  Many times I offered to take the job in my own small shop, I have a fairly complete machining setup  in my basement.

And very strange that a lot of the customers, that were asking me to do this work in the commercial shop "I don't know that you could do it", as if the boss had to be there to direct what I would be doing.  Considering that the boss most often called on me to figure out how to do some of the more complicated things, attitude is suggested.  Same work, just the machines that would be doing the physical work would change, but at home, I'm not a professional, and in the shop I am? 

As Wolfie sugests, that may be the difference, the perception that a hobbyist isn't as proficient as a professional, even though they may be one and the same. 

As far as nitpicking the software, that will happen.  Equating software to my instruments, it's not what you have, it's how you apply the capabilities that counts.  Big money doesn't automatically equate to quality work.  I know people that could produce junk on some of the most expensive machines ever built, and I've seen some pretty poor work come from high end softwares as well as excellent work coming from freeware. 

Professional means you do things for money, hobbyist means you do what you like or have an interest in.

D.

Quote - I tend to disagree slightly with you there Wolf, I actually think what has happened is that the advances in the software have left some of us behind, playing catch up, therefore in many instances the divide is getting greater between some pros and some hobbyists.

and as a matter of interest, my definition of a Pro is someone who gets paid for producing anything and as such is probably open to a higher level of scrutiny than any amateur hobbyist, poor things.......And finally, i don't think that the mentality you mention is the issue for people having their feelings hurt, I think in many cases it is the tone of the critique poster and very often, I regret to say, the forum history of the critic in question......

Well said, Mr B. 

Let us not forget that many of the professionals at one time was a hobbyist. There are no exact line between the two. I like  the term serious better. You are serious in your work, you are serious of your hobby. Before I made very good money in the software construction business, but before that I was a 'hobbyist' programmer for three years. A hobbyist that worked 60 hours a week and often more, a hobbyist that was more serious than many professionals. So let us have no prejudices. If you have a hobby, why not take it seriously?

Quote -
Well said, Mr B. 

It was actually mysticeagle. I quoted HIM.

wizzy, i am mr B :) actually so is Sam :)

and vintorix, i wasn't implying that hobbyists couldn't be or weren't serious, i was only stating my view of the paid difference between an pro and an am. A few years ago you couldn't compete in the Olympics if you had been sponsored or paid for a race or a win, it was purely for amateurs, but things change. I make nothing financially from what i do, therefore I consider myself an amateur. If I were paid for one project how would I view myself? A very poor pro :) or an amateur that had been paid for a project? lol.

Quote - wizzy, i am mr B :) actually so is Sam :)

Sorry, just trying to give credit where credit was due! 

Quote - > Quote - wizzy, i am mr B :) actually so is Sam :)

Sorry, just trying to give credit where credit was due! 

Perhaps I should clarify.  We're distant cousins and have the same family name.  Yes, really. 

Quote - If I were paid for one project how would I view myself? A very poor pro :) or an amateur that had been paid for a project? lol.

Being a professional is more than just being paid for your efforts - it's making your living from it.

Lots of amateurs and hobbyists make the odd dollar here and there from their endeavours. But your profession is your livelihood, and only when you make your living from an activity can you truly call yourself a professional. As others have said though: that doesn't necessarily make you more skilled than an amateur.

I'm a professional photographer. I make a living from it.

It's quite likely that I'll be giving that up to do something else soon, because I'm fickle and want to try other things. If I do move on to something else, I'll no longer consider myself a professional photographer - just an amateur. I will, however, still have all the skills I had when I was a pro :-)

mysticeagle, "I make nothing financially from what i do, therefore I consider myself an amateur"

Neither do I (make anything financially from CG).  But I don't consider myself an amateur because sooner or later I will get paid for it. And even if that unlikely happens, that I never get paid so what? I still have had a very good time. Either way, I win. Allow me to introduce a new term, "advanced hobbyist".

;)

Gentlemen you make for a persuasive argument on the definition of a Pro..

In fact so persuasive I think I am swayed, verily do i swoon .

I am now going to redefine myself as an unpaid hobbying professional with amateur aspirations...It sounds so much better :)

"Gentlemen you make for a persuasive argument on the definition of a Pro..

In fact so persuasive I think I am swayed, verily do i swoon .

I am now going to redefine myself as an unpaid hobbying professional with amateur aspirations...It sounds so much better :) "

LOLOLOLOLOL...thanks so much for that :)

This is how I define this bit:

Pro = Someone who is in it for the money.  Whether they make quality or crap is not the issue.  Of course, the better the product, the better it sells, but, to me, a Pro wants to pay the bills and maybe buy some food with the money made from this kind of business.  Time on project v cost per time really does not factor into it, since the Pro is looking at the annual income and not the time card - the more time spent up front perfecting a skill would balance with the number of quality products on the market by year's end.

Hobbyist = Someone who is in it for the fun.  Again, whether they make quality or crap is not the issue, since only some of it will be seen by others.  If they sell enough stuff to pay for the hobby, good for them, but these people would think of "that much money" as something nice to get eventually but are not actively striving for that as a specific goal.

Student = Someone who is in it for the knowledge.  Once again, whether they make quality or crap is not the issue, since most of their stuff will never be seen by anyone, even family.  These people would be in it for the experience; some will become hobbyists, some will (try to) become Pros, and some will decide it is simply not their kind of thing after all and just leave.

(Insert naughty word here) = Someone who is in it for the glory.  All they make is crap and get pissy when people leave comments.  These people want to be well respected Pros, have their masterful tutorials lauded by everyone, and make more money than Billy Gates.  Too bad they never listen, do not read or watch existing how-to threads and tutorials, and generally refuse to put in the effort but demand the rewards.

mysticeagle, "I am now going to redefine myself .."

Now you have my respect! Its all in the mind. Of course it is safer to call yourself a hobbyist with no ambitions whatsoever. In that case no one can mistakenly take you for someone who thinks he is something.

 Vintorix :)  i think the chances of me being mistaken for one of those is highly unlikely :)

Quote -  

 

 (Mysticeagle's post)

 

 

 

Speechless?  In a forum?  Wow. :D

Hmmm, not sure about this on, especially when you compare what the meaning of a hobbist and a pro are, in regards to talent.  Either way, I give cuddo's to both groups because both can take hard work and persistance.

Quote - I don't really understand why labels are important.

They are not important to me when speaking of a person except to understand their motivation, as I defined them (for myself) above.

Quote - Is there an implied difference in skill? Does one confer more prestige than the other? Does the need to have one label for oneself and to apply another label to someone else stem from insecurity, or is it boastful, or does it serve some other social purpose?

The answer to that would be "yes."  Apply as needed. :)

Quote - Mostly, in CGI forums (this one included), I see "hobbyist" and "amateur" used in a less than positive way as a way to distinguish those who "know what they're talking about" from those who load, click, and render NVIATWAS.

This is the problem: defining the person and the work with the same label.  A hobbyist who creates wonderful items but has no intention of making a living off of the work is, to me, a skilled (quality) hobbyist (motivation).  Someome who tries to make money by way of "quantity over quality" is, to me, an unskilled (quality) pro (motivation).

Are these terms important?  Only in as far as language is important to express concepts.  If I never posted or read about these things, I would never need internal terms for them.

@ Moriador - I tend to agree but...

There seems to be an unjustified prejudice against hobbyists or amateurs which implies these people are unskilled, untalented, inexperienced, or produce work of lower quality than professionals.  Quite often it can be the reverse, since the true definition of amateur is someone who works for the love of it.  Batlab is a very good example here, since he produced Poser content of amazing high quality long before he decided to sell things.  Mask-Da is another one.  I defy anyone to find guitar models as good as Mask's, paid for or free.

Personally, I don't give a damn what label a thing has.  As Shakespeare said, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

"mysticeagle, "I am now going to redefine myself .."

Personally I dont define myself by what I am doing on a computer with software or even what industry I happen to be in.
That can be dangerous for your mental state.

what happens when there is some major shift in your field and you are no longer able to do such a thing?.

Also when your entire self worth/self perception is tied to what you do with your software& computers or even paints,pencils&brushes you are in danger becoming too Emotionally involved in other peoples perception of what you Do.
to the point where some comment posted by some anonymous nobody on the internet about some "3D render" of yours, who him/herself might be hiding behind a completely false persona ,sends you into a Rage or Depression ...Sad very sad

 
As an aside "Globalization" is finally thundering through the VFX industry in America.
Many long established Visual effects companies are shutting down over here because big budget film effects are being done overseas by very skilled people who work at a much lower rate based on their local living standards not the inflated standards in LA or London

if you read some of the threads over at CG society you will be amazed at the fear,panic and anger expressed and calls for Government intervention to save the oh so precious "VFX industry".

One realistic minded guy over there put things in their proper perspective
he said ,"possibly excluding industrial design and medical research visualization"
we CG/3D"Artists" do NOT produce ANYTHING that can be eaten, lived for shelter or worn on the human body for warmth its all just a bit of fleeting visual entertainment".

I dont care how good you are with poser shader node math or character Animation or if you are rendering with poser4 or Autodesk Max with VRAY

WE are not producing anything vital to or actually necessary  to mankind
This is why I am amazed at the pure hatred I see expressed over the silly DAZ/genesis affair.

Cheers

There are many ways to define a pro.

Snarlygribbly says that you are only a pro if you make your living at it.

SAMS3D talk about talent, skill.

And then we have style and taste.

Myself I go after ambition.

And there are probably a dozen more.

But one thing is sure. There is a huge difference in how much time, money and recourses people lay down on their projects. There you have some tangible that can be measured, that is not subjective.

Quote - "I don't really understand why labels are important."

It is important because if you don't know where the other peson stand you have problems understanding each other. That is the main cause of misunderstandings in this forum.

wolf, did you think i was actually being serious? lol..........the truth of how i think of myself is a bloke with unfortunately too much time on his hands who decided to have a crack at something because a) I had the time to do it  b) actually wanted to try and learn a new skill c) save myself some money...........

I don't try and conform myself into any category in all honesty and whether or not i was a pro, am or well meaning hobbyist, the only true value that can be put on anything I did, no matter what field it were in, is how it was recieved or perceived by others..This i think is true of all contributors to the market place or even freestuff. True there are those who by the work they have previously done are expected to produce continuing high quality output, but as someone once said, you are only as good as your last success.

"wolf, did you think i was actually being serious? lol..........the truth of how i think of myself is a bloke with unfortunately too much time on his hands"

Hi Actually I noticed the sort of "poking fun at yourself" tone in your remark,

But the general tone of this thread seems to indicate
that some are serious about defining themselve in the context of pro or hobbyistin this "Area"and i would assert that  the nature of what we do,( making images/animations etc for for no reason other than to be viewed/looked at /watched or played on Xbox by someone)
,is not something that should be taken this seriously wether so called "pro" or hobbyist.
we so called "Artists" Pro or hobbyists  are not a resource that humanity actually needs
but  frankly something it merely occasionally desires when time & the economic environment allows.

Quote - i would assert that  the nature of what we do,( making images/animations etc for for no reason other than to be viewed/looked at /watched or played on Xbox by someone)
,is not something that should be taken this seriously wether so called "pro" or hobbyist.
we so called "Artists" Pro or hobbyists  are not a resource that humanity actually needs
but  frankly something it merely occasionally desires when time & the economic environment allows.

This.  100%

Well said, Sir. 

A long time a go I had a person call me a longed haired ,white trash ,tattoo ,anarchist hippie artist ,That belonged in jail. I knew they where trying to be insulting but I took it as a complement coming from the likes of them.

I define my entire existence as being a Artist ,That's what I am.
Has nothing to do with titles or money.

If I cared about money or prestige I would be a Doc.

The one's that make CGI for the money but have no Love for it.
Thay might be a pro but there not a Artist.

Before you dismis Artist as not being important ,keep in mind.

If not for Artist we would all be standing in a field naked.

"Before you dismis Artist as not being important ,keep in mind.
If not for Artist we would all be standing in a field naked."

Hmm interesting point of view.
but perhaps YOU would be "naked in a field" without artists.

Not me..

My Dwelling/building is framed with
welded Steel.
Oscar Kelberg(Non artist) of sweden invented and patented the covered electrode making modern welding fast enough to be commercially viable

Tthe main floors of my building/dwelling are made of formed concrete.

John Smeaton an English engineer
(NON artist) invented the modern form of concrete used in building construction today.

My building/dwelling is air conditioned eliminating any need to "stand naked in a field" to cool off.
Air condition was invented by (Non artist)William Cullen at the University of Glasgow in Scotland in 1748.

The garments I am wearing at this very moment(thus preventing me being Naked) are made of woven cotton.

Eli Whitney(NON artist) was the inventor of the cotton gin and a pioneer in the mass production of cotton.

These same garments were sewn together with a device called a "sewing machine"
The first functional sewing machine was invented by the French tailor,(Non artist) Barthelemy Thimonnier, in 1830.

(yep.. Google.. the unrelenting enemy of hyperbole)

Cheers

I don't buy the notion that eaten, lived in etc. is merely a non-essential luxury. I find much of the art/entertainment etc. I see personally useless or worse but ... I think the fact that the impulse to create and consume these things is so innate in human beings suggests that is vitally important in some way. Religious people apparently tend to live longer as well, but you can't eat that either. 

Now maybe you're only referring to CGI and not art/culture in general. In that you would probably be correct since mankind existed fine before computers were even invented. Still, they are increasingly the medium of artistic expression and therefore no less valid than other mediums IMO. Sorry but it just seems like too simplistic a view. By extension, you could say that a packing crate will do just as well as a house and we could all eat algae and wear garbage bags. Yeah, we could but where's the fun in reducing everything to the LCD :-) Apologies if I misunderstand the point.

Art has no value? Art is not important? The idea is fantastic, baroque, absurd, preposterous. It is very easy to prove that art is the most important thing of all. Imagine that someone on sunday took away all beauty in the world. So how to you think people would feel on monday?

?

You should always take your work seriously, no matter what it is. That is the work, not yourself! ;)

Quote - .....And finally, i don't think that the mentality you mention is the issue for people having their feelings hurt, I think in many cases it is the tone of the critique poster and very often, I regret to say, the forum history of the critic in question......

lol, no offense to anyone, but - people here don't have a clue what cruel is when it comes to critiques.

Cruel... stapling a mcdonald's application as a final grade to your photography portfolio that you've worked all semester on perfecting. 

Cruel... pointing out - to the entire student body - how lousy your work is, on an overhead projector, picking apart every detail and then asking you to define to the rest of the class what a pencil is. 

Cruel... after embarrassing you to the rest of your class, hanging that drawing on the far left wall under the giant bold letters that read "WALL OF SHAME" where it will stay until at least the end of the semester, and for the really special ones, long after you've moved on to other classes... or dropped out. 

Cruel... the single comment at the top of your page "Is anything you try to write, NOT a clich'e?" along with a giant red 0 - in your creative writing class.

I know I've been guilty of being a bit harsh on my critiques, or sounding like i'm trying to be insulting. I really don't intentionally insult anyone and I always try to find good points to highlight, even when there really arent any. So I usually just don't critique at all. But the above is just a few examples of the environment I come from in terms of critiques. I'm used to being told something I've spent months working on is complete shit and to start over. That was my school. You deal with it, get used to it or find something else to major in. But part of the intention was to weed out those who couldn't handle harsh criticism and make the rest try that much harder.  

Most people here are hobbyists tho, and shouldn't be subjected to that level of scrutiny, but at the same time they should be expected to at least *try *to make whatever they're doing worth looking at, to evoke some sort of internal response from the viewer, and be open to objective criticism if they post what they're doing, and not get so insulted when someone tells them it's crap. It's not a personal attack, it's just an observation and encouragement to do better next time. 

I still think 99% of my work is complete sh*t and only rarely get lucky and actually like something I'm working on. After 10 years I'm starting to wonder why I'm still trying to do this, as I've never produced anything that I'm really happy with. My only real reason for "why" is the $130K worth of student debt I have to show for it, cause there really isn't much else.

~Shane

AmbientShade : Whats the name of your school ? I want to make sure none of my kids ever go there.

If any one tryed to put my Art on a wall of shame I promise you I would brake there arm.

LOL Ouch! That sounds like the Marine bootcamp technique. At least there, they can say they're dealing with life and death to justify it.

*"... and not get so insulted when someone tells them it's crap. It's not a personal attack, it's just an observation and encouragement to do better next time." *

Actually, if that's the limit of their criticism skills, then I'd say they're as bereft of talent as their target. Some people may indeed believe from their own experience that such is the best way to help others develop but IMO, some people are just asses who get off on skewering others. That doesn't mean they may not have teaching skills but I certainly don't think that the two combined are a requirement for teaching or critical excellence. I'm not against giving someone a kick on occasion but I'm afraid that I'm more Mr. Rogers than Parris Island DI. Having the discernment to know when to apply either technique and leaning toward the former sounds better to me. I'm not sure that the DI technique hasn't ruined more talent than it's nurtured but I have no way of knowing. At any rate, I'd be leery of trying it these days. In the past, getting even meant egging the guy's car. Today, they're liable to bring in an AK and throw down on you.

~Shane

hmmm.... devilish grin...what is Art ?

Anyway, since the OP just made a statement without asking a question and without revealing why he launched this thread, what's the point of all this in the first place? Just wondering.

Many tries to denigrate art, for instance by claiming that "everything is art", "it is in the eyes of the beholder", "every days items is art", "sport is art" etc, etc. I'll guess that is because art is inherently undemocratic and that offends some people. However, "Women come and go, speaking of Michelangelo" even if he lived almost 500 years ago. So I'll guess that art and beauty will prevail anyhow no matter how many who tear it down and wants to belittle it.

**"Religious people apparently tend to live longer as well, but you can't eat that either. **"

That is usually the result of lifestyle choices
related to the various practices.
(modest consumption,avoiding toxins purifying the body with fasting etc.)

"By extension, you could say that a packing crate will do just as well as a house and we could all eat algae and wear garbage bags. Yeah, we could but where's the fun in reducing everything to the LCD :-) Apologies if I misunderstand the point."

Actually you have missed the point respectfully sir
no one suggests we stop everything and live in the most basic conditions of food,clothing and shelter.

But I dont hear the people who manufacture the storage crates and garbage disposal supplies
carrying on about how important their work is to the society or how it "defines" them as human beings as much I hear coming from self described "Artists" and I come from a "fine art" background  btw.

I personally LOVE the Visual Arts and COLOR
(just check my website link below)
I worked as Graphic Designer for print for 18 years before getting into 3D&Animation.

But I am not under any Delusion that my "Art "
has an intrinsic value anywhere NEAR that of the
sanitation engineers in New york whom are enabling me to have Drinkable water and flushing toilets

Take away the Mona Lisa or ILM and all special effects movies and  all 3D render engines on the same day you Take away refrigeration and functional sewers and see what regular people complain about the most .
"Artists" really need to get over them/ourselves

Cheers

Quote - hmmm.... devilish grin...what is Art ?

Whenever this is asked.. I think of 2 scenes... the first...

RIMMER: Many's a night we while away the wee hours contemplating a Caravaggio, discussing its shape, themes and form.

CAT: The pointy-stick game doesn't get a look-in anymore.

RIMMER: Hmm. Marvelous. (Crosses over to a small, angular box near the door.) Now this three-dimensional sculpture in particular is quite exquisite. Its simplicity, it's bold, stark lines... pray, what do you call it?

LEGION: The light switch.

*RIMMER: The light switch. *

LEGION: Yes.

RIMMER: I couldn't buy it, then?

LEGION: Not really. I need it to turn the lights on and off.

Red Dwarf - Legion

and

http://youtu.be/7mmal0PMkmI

Doctor Who - City of Death.

Quote - http://youtu.be/7mmal0PMkmI

Doctor Who - City of Death.

 

Awesome link Khai

Well... I do find that drawing on the walls of my cave, using charcoal from the fire that my forebears kindled, helps pass the time on these long dark nights... as I shelter from the endless cycle of ruthless predation outside the cave.

Sometimes I look back on an image I made previously, whilst in a kind of trance and I think... eureka!

I've found myself drawing circles recently... I think they might mean something.

exits to a recital of Richard Straus' "Also sprach Zarathustra" as played by the Vienna Philarmonic Orchesra

Having given the Pro vs Hobbyist some thought... I think it's better defined by looking at how one aproaches the work rather than simply looking at it as Pro=paid etc...

An amature or 'hobbyist' is probably doing it for fun... and may go weeks or months between works and is more concerned in general with the joy they get in the works they create. A hobbyist can be just as skilled or even more skilled that a 'pro' but isn't aiming at making a living off of it nessessarily.

A pro may be aiming at making a lving off his work... but being paid doesn't make them more or less skilled that the hobbyist (infact I've seen 'pro' works that were horrible compared to some of the work from gifted amatures out there)...

Where the 'pro' differes truely from the hobbyist is in his aproach to the work... he/she daily works on projects in some form, treats it like a job he/she enjoys rather than just looking at it for the fun it can be. The 'pro' also will respond to his end users (clients) in a much more business-like manner where as the amature/hobbyist might not...

In both cases the end result is the same... artworks etc get created, but the major factor between pro and hobbyist is the aproach and attitude towards the work... atleast in my humble opinion...

Having given the Pro vs Hobbyist some thought... I think it's better defined by looking at how one aproaches the work rather than simply looking at it as Pro=paid etc...

An amature or 'hobbyist' is probably doing it for fun... and may go weeks or months between works and is more concerned in general with the joy they get in the works they create. A hobbyist can be just as skilled or even more skilled that a 'pro' but isn't aiming at making a living off of it nessessarily.

A pro may be aiming at making a lving off his work... but being paid doesn't make them more or less skilled that the hobbyist (infact I've seen 'pro' works that were horrible compared to some of the work from gifted amatures out there)...

Where the 'pro' differes truely from the hobbyist is in his aproach to the work... he/she daily works on projects in some form, treats it like a job he/she enjoys rather than just looking at it for the fun it can be. The 'pro' also will respond to his end users (clients) in a much more business-like manner where as the amature/hobbyist might not...

In both cases the end result is the same... artworks etc get created, but the major factor between pro and hobbyist is the aproach and attitude towards the work... atleast in my humble opinion...

Anyway, since the OP just made a statement without asking a question and without revealing why he launched this thread, what's the point of all this in the first place? Just wondering.

*What's the point of this question?

Take away the Mona Lisa or ILM and all special effects movies and  all 3D render engines on the same day you Take away refrigeration and functional sewers and see what regular people complain about the most .
"Artists" really need to get over them/ourselves

*The pay keeps me humble.