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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 25 12:38 pm)



Subject: Viking Longboats


Huolong ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2013 at 8:26 AM · edited Sat, 02 November 2024 at 6:12 PM

There are several tweaked versions of what is called a Viking Longboat, when in fact what is shown as a modification of the longboat for cargo, not battle. Often called a Knarr.

I would be really happy and/or glad to get something I could tweak (textures, etc) that resembles a real Longboat.

  1. Longboats for raiding and fun had no deck save at the ends (bow & stern), no short rowing benches nor oar locks on the gunwale. 

  2. The Vikings sat on strakes, often rounded on top, where later conversions to cargo were decked "under".

  3. The Viking Cargo ship didn't need shields, and often had a higher freeboard that long ships, and about half the length. 

  4. The Longhip was two or three times the length of the Gokstad ship and had such a low freeboard as to limit it's use the rivers, and days when the waves were not high.

 

 

 

Gordon


cedarwolf ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2013 at 9:49 AM

I'd be interested in this as well.


ironsoul ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2013 at 10:08 AM

Attached Link: London224 viking ship

Seem to remember London224 was working on a viking ship (don't know if longboat or cargo) sometime ago which looked excellent but can't find it in his marketplace though. Maybe someone knows if it was ever available. You can see it in his gallery.



basicwiz ( ) posted Sat, 23 November 2013 at 10:10 AM

Google "poser viking boat" and it will be very near the top at "ontarget3d".


Huolong ( ) posted Sun, 24 November 2013 at 2:56 PM

Attached Link: Templar Militaris

All of the Longboats on the market are the cargo version of the long boat sometimes called the knarr.  All of the Longboats are descendants of the DeEspona Max edition of 2000.

The generic "Viking" boat is the basis of most ships built in the North of Europe by being built hull first, ribs after while the Southern ship building was ribs first.  This is preserved in the copies of the knarr available now.  The Knar was primarily a sailing ship, oars for maneuvering.  One cannot get any traction sitting on a box.

The problem of ship shape and designed for rowing as a principal methiod of propulsion is that all extant assume that the oars were pulled by the back instead of the legs where two thirds of body strength is retained.  

The modern racing boats with  one to eight oarsmen some with one oars and some with two, use a rolling seat that allows the butt to stay put while the rest of the body, arms, legs, and back do the propulsion.   Oar driven ships of the Middle Ages (Longboat or Dromon) did not use rolling or sliding seats so far as any evidence is concerned.

The question remains as to how can an oarsman use his full body strenght (mostly legs) with a stationary butt?  The answer is, he didn't sit when rowing.  This conclusion is not widely known or accepted, and were it not for the fact that I spent a semester on the University of California "Crew" of 8 oared shells, as a Coxswain. I was the little guy with the head mounted megaphone, and knockers in hand to steer the boats.  Several Factors prevail:

The race is won on the run, not the stroke.   The run is defined by equal power from each oarsman so the boat doesn't turn.  A turning boat is off balance which furhter screws up both port and starboard.

Each oar must enter the water (catch) at the exact same time and angle, and likewise with leaving the water (release).  The slightest variance also costs an imbalance port vs starboard.   On the run, the oars are held flat to preclude bumping the wrong wave. The wrists are cocked slightely down and on the catch rotate thumbs first and the blade catches the water without splash.  On release, it is the reverse so that the oars leap from  the water.  One big problem is what is called "diving" in which an oarsman (or woman) leans forward to get a bigger angle on the water, this also unbalances the boat.

It is complex enough while sitting on a seat that rolls forward and back.  In modern days, the feet are snug in straps that act as shoes.  

A standing & sitting rowing system is examined in the book "Age of the Galley" by Conway.  He does not appear to have practical experience in the variables I cite above.  But covers everything else in exquisite detail

The significance of the details above is that the oarlocks have to be positioned correctly so that an oarsman can get the correct angle from ship to water and be able to pull evenly with the rest of the crew.  On the 8 oared shell this is a level back and forth move, unlike the oblong shown in most illustration.   

Rowing at full strength in Galleys and Longboats was reserved for relatively calm waters such as rivers.   The longboar and galley had extremely low freeboards, which made sailing dangerous and required methods of preventing breeching.

From a Modeling standpoint, I am too clumsy to make the hull which must have a beam to lengh ration of at least 20 to 1.  The cross sections of the hull are readily apparent on line in pictures of the Gokstad ship, except that it had a deck laid on where the (rounded) thwarts for the oarsmen parked. It's the damn deck that keeps me from remodeling this for pillage, plunder and war.

There is no requirement for oar locks cut into the sides as shown on the Gokstad ship as the oarlocks were covered when not needed.  Likewise there are enough sails and masts to cut and paste.

;)

 

 

 

Gordon


AetherDream ( ) posted Thu, 28 November 2013 at 4:46 AM

I found the boat. Not a bad price for such a great model. Thanks for the info. I have been looking for something like this for awhile.

"People who attempt define what art is or is not, are not artists"---Luminescence


Huolong ( ) posted Thu, 28 November 2013 at 11:27 PM

I found another Viking Model rusting in my props library that breaks out the various components of a Viking cargo version.  It happens to have several props parented to one component which allows me to save props as Obj and retexture them including getting rid of parts I don't want.

 

After this comes the challenged of rigging the oars and oarsmen (Epic1 Medieval) to row.

Gordon


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