Hi there,

Thanks in advance for reading, this is a bit of a lengthy post.

I'm currently stuck in limbo between total n00b and competent render artist.  I've studied extensive tutorials for DS, Poser, and even ZBrush for several months.  I already have pretty specific ideas about what kind of renders I want to make, but the vast pool of learning resources for these tools and techniques are often too general, outdated, or way too advanced to be of any help.  Any advice on what I'm trying to do would be immensely appreciated!! :)

The goal:

To create a very specific design for a single character that can be clothed, posed, and potentially animated in a small variety of environments.  For now, it's really all about getting the character up and running for posing/animation.

The work to date:

I started in DAZ 4.6 working from Victoria 4.2 as a base.  I purchased this themed character here on Renderosity, finding her look to be in the ballpark for the character I want to make.

I loaded up new morphs and mats and then dialed in some custom settings using the V4.2 Morphs++ and got the character to a pretty good place.  At certain angles, the resemblance to the character I'm aiming for was definitely apparent.  Other angles, not so much, but it was definitely a good, encouraging start.  

I had reached a point where I needed to be able to refine some features at a level that seemed unavailable with the DAZ toolset.  Most of all, I needed more control over morphing the nose and mouth.  Meanwhile, I had been reading interviews with several of my favorite artists, and most of them said they worked in Poser with DAZ base models.  I also found Ironman13's BOOM morphs for nose, lips, etc. which were built for Poser.  So I took the plunge and moved over to Poser.

After a few unsuccessful attempts, I managed to port my custom V4.2 character into Poser. By this point I had also purchased some clothing and hair.  

After viewing/reading several tutorials I managed to get the clothing and hair onto the model, but so far I have found the fitting process to be extremely frustrating, as the conforming feature isn't really working since I've made a variety of custom tweaks to various parts of the body shape.

I've also spent quite a bit of time with the BOOM morphs for the finer control of the nose/mouth and have also hit a brick wall, only getting a little closer to the desired result while feeling like I've exhausted to capabilities of the morphs.

So I'm finally reaching out to the community, something I probably should've done much sooner! XD

Here's what I'm wondering:

• Are the steps I've taken so far for my character design a good workflow?  
• Should I have built the character from a zeroed V4.2 base instead of starting from the custom themed character?  
• Should I just bring the character (in it's current state in DAZ) into something like ZBrush to finalize the finer details?  I know exactly how it should look -- I suspect there's probably some magical combination of dials in Poser, but lordy it sure seems like a bit of a crapshoot sometimes.
• Is this what I should expect when using 3rd party content with such a customized character or are there steps I'm missing or doing incorrectly that would make this process less tedious/frustrating?
• Is there some glaring thing that I'm doing wrong, forgetting, etc?!

Thanks so much for reading!

Maybe this insight will help

"I had reached a point where I needed to be able to refine some features at a level that seemed unavailable with the DAZ toolset.  Most of all, I needed more control over morphing the nose and mouth."

Thoughts:  Not sure what types of lips and noses you are trying to create but there are additional morphs available for V4 based on what you are trying to create.

"so far I have found the fitting process to be extremely frustrating, as the conforming feature isn't really working since I've made a variety of custom tweaks to various parts of the body shape."  

Thoughts: Depending on what version of Poser you are using you'll either need to use the morph tool or fitting tool (fitting morph tool is only in the newest release of Poser).  Depending on how extreme your morph is, you may need to add the new morphs to the clothing.

Are the steps I've taken so far for my character design a good workflow?

 Depending on what type of character you are designing it sounds about right meaning that there is no wrong or right way to go about designing characters.  Some people start with a pencil and pen, while other use clay.  There's only working and shaping the character until you get what you need.

Should I have built the character from a zeroed V4.2 base instead of starting from the custom themed character?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you building your character based off another character that you purchased?  If so there may be limitations to the character that you purchased and not to the v4.2 character.  For me I build my characters from v4.2 without the character morphs used.  The only reason I buy characters is for the skin.  The only reason I start from v4.2 is because it allows me to have a fresh start in terms of creating unique characters.
Should I just bring the character (in it's current state in DAZ) into something like ZBrush to finalize the finer details?  I know exactly how it should look -- I suspect there's probably some magical combination of dials in Poser, but lordy it sure seems like a bit of a crapshoot sometimes.

Sometimes it is a crapshoot but the more you work with the dials the more familiar you'll become with what changes the dials will make.  I actually mapped many of my dial settings so that I can have a visual of what that dial change looks like before I even make it.

Is this what I should expect when using 3rd party content with such a customized character or are there steps I'm missing or doing incorrectly that would make this process less tedious/frustrating?

It doesn't sound as if you are doing anything incorrectly.  Most of it seems to be more of a process of becoming more familiar with the changes that the dials make. 

Is there some glaring thing that I'm doing wrong, forgetting, etc?!

I don't think it's so much about your workflow as it is your familiarity of the morphs that you are using.  The only other options that I know is to sculpt the character so you don't need to mess with the dial.

I'm curious.  what type of lips are you trying to create?

First of all, thanks very much for your thorough reply, much appreciated!

OK, well, it's a relief to know that nothing I'm describing sounds way out of whack as far as workflows, etc.  I'm overwhelmed by the seemingly infinite paths to the same result in this medium.  I think you're right: it really is just a matter of becoming more familiar with the various morphs.

So to clarify/answer some of your questions...

Quote - Should I have built the character from a zeroed V4.2 base instead of starting from the custom themed character?

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you building your character based off another character that you purchased?  If so there may be limitations to the character that you purchased and not to the v4.2 character.  For me I build my characters from v4.2 without the character morphs used.  The only reason I buy characters is for the skin.  The only reason I start from v4.2 is because it allows me to have a fresh start in terms of creating unique characters.

Yes, I've purchased a v4.2 compatible character and applied additional morphs to the face and body.  In addition to liking the skin/mats I thought this would be a starting point because the purchased character already has several of the features I want in my custom character.  Perhaps I should start over with the v4.2 base.  Granted, the changes I made weren't drastic, everything is pretty subtle overall which is why I was surprised to have such difficulty with fitting, etc.

Quote - I don't think it's so much about your workflow as it is your familiarity of the morphs that you are using.  The only other options that I know is to sculpt the character so you don't need to mess with the dial.

OK -- I'm still interested in the option of bringing the current mesh into Zbrush or equivalent tool to finalize the details I want.  My only concern is will doing so introduce any potential problems down the road once I start doing more posing/animating or is it a relatively safe technique -- these last tweaks are so subtle I don't see how it could become a problem later.

Quote - I'm curious.  what type of lips are you trying to create?

Just some pretty basic lips I'm referencing from a photo, they (like the nose) just have some unique features that kind of fall in between the standard morph options I've come across so far.  I'm open to purchasing some new morphs for that, but again if sculpting them myself is a viable way to do it, I'd rather do that.  I've attached a shot of both nose and mouth.

For the nose, I've struggled with getting that curved that's created by the nostrils and the bottom of the tip.  Also, this nose has some unique features around the outer nostril area -- notice the little crevice running up along the side of the outer nostril flesh.  This seems to be a pretty unique feature and I've had no luck getting any of the morphs to recreate this effect, even approximately.

The mouth is a little easier, but also kind of unique. The upper lip has been the tricky part.  It's pretty thin compared to the average mouth. Plus the philtrum peaks are kind of rounded off and faintly defined.  Finally, the outer portion of the upper lip, it's height and curvature -- another feature that I've struggled with.  All of the morphs I've used create too much of a tapering for the height.  In this photo, the height remains pretty consistent up until right before the edge and then it curves up.

I'm beginning to think I should sculpt these myself. 

So I guess my next question is are there any red flags, best practices, etc. to sculpting details in ZBrush and then bringing the character back into Poser?  I'm sure there are plenty of tutorials on this, but just curious if there are any common first-timer mistakes that I should avoid...

Thanks again!

The very first thing you should do to get your clothing to properly conform is make sure the morphs you're using in your character are also in your conforming clothing.  If they are not then you'll need to add them, which you can do natively within P2014 using the "Figures/Copy Morphs From..." dialogue.  If you're using a version of Poser that lacks that feature then you can use a utility like Morphing Clothes to accomplish the same task.

As for face morphs, maybe you just need another morph pack?  I'd suggest taking a look at V4 Ultra Morphs.  There are others though.  And don't forget about the Morphing Tool.  It's especially powerful in P2014.  A really nicely implemented tool.  SM did a great job with it.

I've found Her Lips by Meipe to be my best friend when it comes to lip shapes. 

Thanks for the suggestions!  I'll try them out! :)

Which version of Poser are you using?  If you have Pro 2014, then you have the fitting room.  If you have any version below this, then you do not.

However, every version of Poser from 8 up comes with Wardrobe Wizard.  Yes, you will still have to purchase the add on for V4 as WW only comes with support for Poser native content but compare what you've already spent on morph packages, it's not much.

WW can add whatever morphs you create in your figure to clothing in a couple of clicks.  It come with a walk through and PhilC's assistance is excellent.  Either through his forums or email.

Poser also comes with a morph brush and magnets that can help with adjusting clothes to fit morphed figures without having to spend any more money.

There is no right or wrong way when it comes to a workflow.  Everyone's workflow is unique to them.  You have to find what works for you and go with it.