The following will fall somewhere between a rant and a desperate plea for answers. At this point I'm practically willing to give my soul for the answers, so if you are in that business, just let me know.

My question is regarding creating morph injections for V4. First I will tell you what I've done, then I will say where my issues are.

I created what I believe to be a pure dev version of V4. All of her morphs stripped out.

Using that dev version I have created a custom character for V4. The main character morphs were in obj form. And I was able to create inj and remove files for these just fine using Binary Morph Editor. They even load in at the values I set and under the Group name I gave them. Hallelujah.

Now unfortunately due to the custom morphs, I found that some of V4s bends needed correction. I didn't want to put out a character that looks great in T position, but distorts upon basic bending.

I have purchased about 60$ worth of tutorials to help me through this point as this is the first character I am doing all by myself from start to finish.

It was my understanding that the best way to achieve these bend fix morphs was to use GOZ and pmd injections.

NOT WORKING.

I saved the cr2 with a single bend fix test morph on it. In addition to the morphs for this character. I checked use 'external binary morph targets' so that the pmd would be created. I edited that PMD to make it a pz2. I put this in the pose folder. I inject it onto a new V4 (also dev version). It clearly loads a morph of some sort when I use it, named correctly, but doesn't look anything like the one I saved. (which I still have loaded right next to it for a visual comparison).

I have PhilCs Poser File Editor, as well as Dimension 3Ds Poser File Editor. (there was a lovely stumbling block in learning that these were different programs named the same)

I have also Binary Morph Editor as I mentioned before.

When I simply load the CR2 into Binary Morph Editor, it tells me the figure has no morphs in it. At this point, I start wishing I was just a mechanic so I could start chucking wrenches around the room. Pause for coffee and Xanax, and attempt to continue.

PhilCs Poser File Editor - When I attempt to create morph INJ and REM files, it pops up a window asking which morphs I want to include. The only morphs shown in this box are all of V4s default morphs which I THOUGHT I had stripped out when making my dev version. Where are these coming from????? How the heck are they there??? Where are MY morphs?

Dimension 3Ds Poser File Editor - Honestly...I can't even go there. No it didn't work. No I don't know why. No I can't figure out how to use this program to do what I want. Yes I have read the pdf. I follow directions, and I get no results. Clearly I'm missing something.

'Then there's the unknown unknown'
yeah, that's a real thing and that's where I'm at.

Is there actually any way at all to create a custom morph on a posed figure that can be applied to other figures?  Is this really best achieved with PMD?  Is there any other way to save that morph after using GOZ (on posed)?

Another thing that didn't save at all was the 'Dial Teaching' that I did for that morph. It was suppose to be set at if thigh bends at a than morph goes to b.  Is there a way to save dial teaching into an injectable morph?

There are some people who believe that IQ can not be quantified. I think if they really want the answer to this, they should simply look at the Poser community. There are levels, and I am about a good 20 points shy of the people who write these programs and tutorials. I'm not embarassed to admit this, because those people should actually be working for NASA.

I need help. I need answers. Yes I want to get this character out, but more than anything I just want to comprehend this process. I want to find that one person in the world who is able to explain to me what I need to do in a way that I can understand. The chimp version if possible.

I'm willing to pay, split profit, exchange work, promote you tirelessly. I am willing to do anything at all to just get some help on how to do this. I have been at this about 2 months now. So I'm desperate.

If there is anyone willing to actually LOOK at the files, that would be amazing too.

It's probably a good thing that PhilC doesn't live anywhere near me at this point, because I'd probably show up on his doorstep looking like a lost puppy....

Thanks in advance.
(ps this was all typed out pre xanax)

If you would like to send me the CR2 I'll open it in the editor and should be able to tell you what is going on.

pcooke@philc.net

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will pack up and send asap.  Thank you!

(Didn't know you'd actually see this, I promise I have no real intentions to show up at your doorstep)

Jaci

You want a file that injects a character morph and a fix morph or two?

For me, a PMD is the best way to go. 

You confused me with "I edited that pmd to make it a pz2."   I do not know how this would work.

Open the PMD with the character morph and the fix morph in PMDedit.  There should be a series of morphs all with the same name in each of the involved groups for the character and a 2nd series - probably just two or four groups for the bend fix. Delete anything else that does not have the name of the morphs that you made, and save the PMD. 

Now, click INJ&REM,  In the second row (Binary Morph INJ), give it your INJ.pz2 name, third row (Binary Morph REM) REM.pz2 name.

Controls-  Check = Create full body dials

Groups-  Check =  Create groups

Options- Check = Set initial values

Now do= OK

You can only give each morph the finial group name, not the tree, that I text edit in later.

For the character make Initial value = 1.0

For the fix morph- Initial value = 0.1  ( this way you get the valueParm and the parmNode ) In a text editor later Find = 0.1 Replace = 0

I just copy/paste the ERC code in the INJ.pz2 - the teach thing just confused me.

I am closing out to see if I can get Firefox to let me use the clipboard

OK,  I just got my user profile in Firefox to let me do copy/paste here.

Look,  Just give me the following data and I will get you an INJ and REM pose file for your character:

group name

If the group is a branch of a tree, the tree str names

Do you want the tree collapsed?

Do you want limits? what are they? Do you want them enforced?

valueParm names for the morphs

targetGeom names

PMD name

Which names do you want to show on the dial

Which groups have the fix morphs

Which rotation is the controller

I will have to search thru my "attic" since it has been years since I setup a delayed start, but for the ERC

ratio of joint value to morph value 1:1 1:0.5  1:0.1 ? (deltaAddDelta or do you want something other than linear?)

When do you want it to start (joint value)  when to stop?

My preference is to have separate Face and Body INJ files, (I use separte PMD for FACE and BODY but I think both can work from one PMD if the Face has a different morph name) but I can combine if you wish.

My template FACE.INJ has trans values for the eyes since some morphs move the eye sockets.  Setting those values = instant eye fix

It also has Y and Z trans values for the upper and lower jaws since some morphs need them moved.

I can delete if not wanted.

Quote - OK,  I just got my user profile in Firefox to let me do copy/paste here.

Look,  Just give me the following data and I will get you an INJ and REM pose file for your character:

group name

If the group is a branch of a tree, the tree str names

Do you want the tree collapsed?

Do you want limits? what are they? Do you want them enforced?

valueParm names for the morphs

targetGeom names

PMD name

Which names do you want to show on the dial

Which groups have the fix morphs

Which rotation is the controller

I will have to search thru my "attic" since it has been years since I setup a delayed start, but for the ERC

ratio of joint value to morph value 1:1 1:0.5  1:0.1 ? (deltaAddDelta or do you want something other than linear?)

When do you want it to start (joint value)  when to stop?

My preference is to have separate Face and Body INJ files, (I use separte PMD for FACE and BODY but I think both can work from one PMD if the Face has a different morph name) but I can combine if you wish.

My template FACE.INJ has trans values for the eyes since some morphs move the eye sockets.  Setting those values = instant eye fix

It also has Y and Z trans values for the upper and lower jaws since some morphs need them moved.

I can delete if not wanted.

Jaager,

That would be very awesome of you.  I'll need email.  

To respond to your first message.   I was flustered and trying to type out the problem.  PMD is binary so nope it wasn't that I was editing lol.  (If I was trying that I would have lost it a looong time ago).  I was just creating my own INJ file in text editor and pointing to the PMD.  

After that, I can't really even understand what went wrong with that effort.  The INJ does work.  Dial loads and alters the mesh.  But it looks NOTHING like the morph I made.  The only parts being altered on the mesh are ones I did alter.  Kind of in the direction I altered them.  But it just looks nothing like it.  

I have tried opening the pmd in PMDedit - I get a list of all V4s included morphs (which is again strange because this was all created on a dev V4 with those morphs stripped out) - After I scroll through I do find my morphs.  So holding ctrl, I select them and continue on, just like you say here.

I am able to create INJ and REM poses for the morph, and I get the same exact result upon injecting the morph.  It is not what I have created.

Also none of the teaching that I had done for the morph is included.  

Is this not possible?  To distribute to others morph teaching you have done?

On this particular morph, if the thigh was set to side to side 84 or -84, (for r and l) the morph is suppose to go to 1 on it's own.  Using this injection it does not do this.

I will happily send these files to you.  I will also post a screenshot of the differences in the morph I created and the morph that loads.

Thank you!

On standard V4 texture you see the morph applied from INJ

Try the INJ, REM pose files I've just emailed you, they are working for me here on the character you sent.

It appears that you are using the community channels 1 thro' 12. You'll need to let me know if there are any others. When making your selection in the editor pop up list be sure to select both the targetgeometry boxes AND the valueparms boxes.

I did need to do some editing of the script to address a bracket miss match. There may be an anomaly in your file because it was working correctly on previous files. This may be something that I need to look into further.

Hope that helps.

Phil

Phil,

Thank you.

The main morphs are there with that inj.  

What is not showing up at all is the 'splitsfix' morph that the PMD contained.  The CR2 that I sent also contains that morph, but it's not coming in at all.  Not even distorted.

This is the issue I am having.  Getting the 'Posefix' morphs to load, and to load correctly.

Jaci

The SplitsFix morphs are in their own channel not one of the available community channels. You can only inject a morph into an existing channel, you can not use a pose file to create one.

You'll either have to go the binary morph injection route or assign the morph to an existing community channel.

To my mind a simple search and replace in the CR2 will fix it. Search for "targetGeom SplitsFix_r" replace with "targetGeom PBMDC_13" etc. Then stick with the pose injection method.

Ok so after both of you working on this to give me correct INJ files for the character, I am still getting this major mesh distortion when I apply the 'splits fix' morph.  I can't tell if this is a program issue/bug or if the same result is happening on other ends.  

I have to consider the morph 100% not working as intended and I don't know what to do for that.  I'm not positive if it visually worked for either of you.  Technically, it loads and removes as expected.  It is the mesh that is not behaving in the way it should.

Any ideas?

Jaci

To paraphrase Dennis Moore: there is more to this fix situation than at first appears.  On a V4WM version, your body morph did not seem to need "fixing" anyway.

On a totally stripped version of the original V4, one with just joint zones etc, the effect of the shape morph and the fix has one result.

On an original V4++ with its included JCM and "fix" magnet sets, the effect might be somewhat different.

At least with GoZ you can actually morph a groups in a bended position (although the final result may not match the raw morph as seen in ZBrush - due to other CR2 influences as I said).  Before GoZ or PML the way to do this was what I call "antipation morphs".  You morph the base group - move the verts to where you "think" they need to be and not really see the effect until you apply the morph and bend the group.  a very abstract way that requires many many morph/test steps to get right.

I am thinking that you will still need to morph - test - edit morph - test a few times to compensate for other figure influences.  This sort of morphing is not as straight forward as a basic shape morph.

I think you are right Jaager in that I need to morph test etc.  More.  

Right now, I'm just wanting to see the process work a single time on anything.

To double check and verify that I am not pounding my head on the wall for nothing:

Is it definitely possible to load a figure with custom morphs.  Pose that figure.  And then create additional morphs to be used in the event of that pose on the figure?  One's that work as expected 99% of the time.

It's particularly frustrating because I have a CR2 with all these morphs loaded on it, intact and working.  But for whatever reason I can't get proper functioning INJ for the morphs out of that cr2.  It's obviously correct in there.

It works in an existing CR2?   Try this then:

Set Poser to not use PMD.  Close/reopen Poser.   Open CR2 and save it with a different name.  This should generate a CR2 with embedded deltas.  Reopen CR2 and make sure it stills works as desired.  Open PMDedit - New file and Add Poser - using the CR2 with the embedded deltas as the source. Click the box in the lower left corner if the morphs have PBMCC_ names to get the dial names as morph names.  Delete any unwanted morphs. For sure, click the top of the deltas column and delete any "0" deltas morphs.  Make sure your r & l fix morphs have different names - use the Rename function if needed.  SaveAs the PMD witha new name and generate a new pair of INJ/REM poses for this PMD.  

If - when injected - these fix morphs do not work as desired - ??  In theory it should produce the same effect as the CR2 it came from.

Don't forget to undo the changes in Poser preferences re-PMD.

Not sure if I am loading from CR2 correctly in PMDedit.  Everytime I try it tells me that the file contains no morphs.  I'm going to redo specifically as you've said in this post and see what happens.  

I have decided to take a short break today and make a 'fun picture'.  Something I rarely ever take the time to do anymore.  I was getting well well past frustrated.

With my mothers passing and my father in laws cancer, I've had to start trying to work ONLY from home so I can be the caregiver.  I need badly to be able to move past only producing pose packages.  Some days, it just gets to be a lot trying to figure all this stuff out.  In addition to the obvious other stressors.

For both of you who have helped you have my immense appreciation.  I'm sure I'll be back shortly with more questions lol.

Did not work.  Same result.

It's absolutely baffling.  I was told by another person that yes, the reason for this is that it is multiplying the morphs from the character and the 'fix morph'.  I guess the conclusion is that no it is not possible to create morphs on top of morphs that work together.

Seems kind of dumb to me.  It should just be math.  If the value is 500, and we add another 200, it just becomes 700, not 1200.

In any regard.  I've also tested the process on an UNMORPHED standard V4.  In posed position.  I've taken her into zbrush and created adjustment morphs for her bends.

Load it back into poser via GoZ, all works fine initially.  Point an INJ to the pmd.  Load a fresh V4, put her in same pose, use the INJ and again distorted morph.  Not what I created.

I had hoped to be able to in the future incorporate these 'morph fixes' into pose packages.  Since many don't have the ability to just go into a modeling program and fix issues themselves.  This effort should definitely be possible.  The fact that it is producing the exact same results as the other makes me think there is something else going on here.

I am thinking that most of the "fix need" problems either do not happen or are easily adjusted "on the fly" by utilizing weight map tech.  Doing this with fix morphs is sorta like developing versions of Model T starter cranks in a 2014 World.  The difference is not that extreme but the process is probably History if not Archeology.  I like History, 17th and 18th Century shipbuilding and Naval Archetecture are major interests, but I would not spend effort on modernizing old methods and expect to produce anything an existing Navy would use.

Since weight maps a just a part of a CR2, I am wondering if they too are open to being added or adjusted by using an appropriate INJ.pz2?

Lol, I'm not sure.  I honestly have not worked with weight maps at all.

I can see what you are saying about fixing the issues on the fly.  And for personal use, for those that have the tools and knowledge, it is easily doable.

But if you look in the galleries you see that many must not have either the ability or the knowledge.  

Even packages exist in the marketplace solely to fix the bend issues.  They are great, but aren't pose specific.  

I had two goals.  1 to get this character out with main morphs and fix morphs. 

2 - to begin including these pose fixes in my pose packages, for higher end user utility.  

Now for #1 - maybe I am just trying to do too much for that character.  As you noted it's not too much of a problem on the weight mapped V4.

But for #2 since those packages do exist currently in the market, I know it can be done on standard V4.  

Even if I decided not to include them in packages, I'd still like to know how it is done in a way that works. and why it's not currently working.