I have been using V4 and M4 in Poser since they were released by DAZ. I realize they are now old old.
When DAZ made the shift to Genesis, I let it slide by.... more so from the fact I never liked DAZ Studio .. or more importantly, preferred Poser.

Now, after all these years, there are a lot of products being released here on Renderosity for Genesis. So i thought, perhaps i need to get on board.

Then you go to DAZ and see they have now released Genesis THREE. Let alone each release comes with new characters.... V5, V6, and now V7.... plus all the new morphs, products and over and over. The prices are higher as well. 

Its just too much to comprehend. and to buy. Probably end up staying with V4 within Poser.

It's time to recognise that Poser and DAZ are following two different forks in the road which have - now - diverged too far to be compatible. The DSON import add-on was like a little track between the two, but very easy to trip over and / or get lost along it. With Genesis 3 that's more or less gone.

I opted to get off the DAZ bandwagon a couple of years ago: whatever new geegaws they release have no relevance or appeal for me. And my wallet is a lot happier.

Good luck with this thread. A certain person will single-handedly turn this discussion into a fight and then play innocent peace-keeper, demanding that it be moved to the DAZ forum, like the last V7 thread. I'll bet that person is already typing up his/her "Look, Look! I'm being attacked, POSER is being attacked" posts now, ready to paste them in as soon as conditions are suitable.

and its really not about v7 or any v other than what has turned into an overwhelming choice fest of characters and product lines. 

SMS need to add Dual Quaternion skinning and UDIM along with PBR to the next version of Poser.  They should have gone with it when they went to weight mapping in the first place. 

... an overwhelming choice fest of characters and product lines. 

We are indeed spoiled for choice, it's certainly a great time to be a 3D artist.

... an overwhelming choice fest of characters and product lines. 

We are indeed spoiled for choice, it's certainly a great time to be a 3D artist.

yes, this is true :)

Good luck with this thread. A certain person will single-handedly turn this discussion into a fight and then play innocent peace-keeper, demanding that it be moved to the DAZ forum, like the last V7 thread. I'll bet that person is already typing up his/her "Look, Look! I'm being attacked, POSER is being attacked" posts now, ready to paste them in as soon as conditions are suitable.

Pictures them staring at thread with itchy fingers waiting for opening to strike. It will happen, it is too good to resist:)

Are the two of you (obm890 and Zev0) just baiting to make SURE it happens or what? Seems like it ;). It's a two way street, isn't it?

Dave-So - it's all in how much you're willing to learn to continue your hobby. DS is all just a matter of sticking with it. We're all very Poserized and we can't expect that DS is going to work exactly the same. It just takes some getting used to.

As for prices, they're STILL not as high as they were back in the day. For Vicky 1 I paid upwards of 200 bucks for the figure, the morphs, the texture and a lousy ponytail and bikini. The Pro Bundle for V7 at full price isn't even that much and ya get way more stuff ;). Unless SM decides to include what needs to be there to support G3 then those are the choices you got unless you wanna use Vicky 4 into perpetuity - not a pleasant thought for me. You could use G2 in Poser via DSON as well...that works well enough and G2 stuff isn't going to dry up overnight.

Laurie

I imagine it is overwhelming for some when you try to decide what you can and can't work with depending on the software you use and the fact you have to try to keep up with the new releases and technology. However, lets keep this thread civil and flame free.

Are the two of you (obm890 and Zev0) just baiting to make SURE it happens or what?

Not me, I was somewhat naively hoping to preempt a replay of that rather tiresome little power game. I enjoy these debate threads and it annoys me to see them locked or deleted because of one or two people. Without those threads we're back to one "what hair prop is this?" per day.

The cross-compatibility still keep V4 and M4 relevant, even well after newer versions have come and gone. And those two models have a lot of content available for them.

I Personally think that every artist can choose amongst all the choices hes Preferred doll or Program for hes creations. no matter if Ds or Poser. It is sort of Industrial envelopment, if one just sticks on hes principals he will not get overwhelmed.

I personally Stick on V4, never tried the genesis Products, sure I also Create Poser products and they sell well ( We are just ghosts in a virtual world ) but I don't mind the development of  other Figures I just Ignore them to avoid a burnout, trying to use em all.

I think every artist has hes own style and should stick on it no matter what doll what Program he she uses to accomplish the creation, all this makes it more versatile more individual.

As an example ! 90 % of what I use I create my self, even if my runtime consists of things other creators made , so why does this happen ? it is because my Ideas should remain Individual not just a Copy. You will wonder why having stuff other artists created in such a case, well the answer is simple ! It is Inspiriting  and it motivates to create own things.

You should not let new things get that close and especially not let it overwhelm you , it would just cause that you stand still and are not able to be creative anymore.

In short terms " Cause A Burnout ) 

Guess what? When Genesis 3 sales drop... Poof... Genesis 4....

I Disagree.. Genesis3 arrived when Genesis2 sales are still at an all time high. None of us were seeing sale slowdown. Genesis 2 also arrived when Genesis 1 was just taking off. Daz doesn't release a new figure based on sales, they release to keep up with tech and improvements they want in order to showcase what the company is capable of. It is why Genesis 3 is here early, so it can get into other markets and give them more exposure while there is still a gap. To this day I am still getting lots of Genesis 1 sales and sometimes more than Genesis 2 in a day. So new figure released based on sales? No. If they wanted they could let Genesis 2 sit as long as V4, and it will still sell, just like V4 content still sells, but they aren't a company that just stops innovating. They strive to improve and aim to deliver improved figures. Enter Genesis 3.

To add, not everybody just jumps onto the latest figure, some still use Genesis1 to this day, but with the system Daz has in place, they can use content from other generations via clones. All comes down to what type of figure they want to use. Daz just provides more options. It is why on some days you will randomly see Genesis1 content selling, or the next day Genesis 2, but that doesn't mean people are using that content only for one figure.

genesis is made for all the app's max ,maya etc etc. V3,4 wasn't.
genesis is really dirt cheap compared to sites like turbosquid prices.
daz studio even feels like a autodesk app don't it.

Underwhelming massive disappointment the idea of handing my inspirations over to a problematical vendor

daz studio even feels like a autodesk app don't it.

I don't know what autodesk app you have been using, but no. Just no. This should be moved to the DAZ forum. (as the above comment illustrates)

I couldn't care less where this thread ends up, let's talk rather than bitch and argue about where something belongs, live outside the box.

I'd love to use Genesis but I don't like DS much, but I think if the next Poser version doesn't in some way sort out compatibility (and I doubt it will) I may have to put some serious time into learing DS.  though I have so much content for V4 and M4 to keep me going for a long time.

i do think personally it's a little too much too quickly for the Genesis line, be nice to have things settle and stabalise.  i wonder if the vendors like these 'quick' updates compared to V4 / M4.  wonder if it harms sales in long term.

I'm off to move myself to my sofa which is a better place to have dinner.

best wishes

Jody

I just figure it's time to diversify my tool set. I prefer Poser, but I'll use whatever works  for my project. Let's share knowledge not argue software politics. 

I'd love to use Genesis but I don't like DS much, but I think if the next Poser version doesn't in some way sort out compatibility (and I doubt it will) I may have to put some serious time into learing DS.  though I have so much content for V4 and M4 to keep me going for a long time.

i do think personally it's a little too much too quickly for the Genesis line, be nice to have things settle and stabalise.  i wonder if the vendors like these 'quick' updates compared to V4 / M4.  wonder if it harms sales in long term.

I'm off to move myself to my sofa which is a better place to have dinner.

best wishes

Jody

V4 and M4 content work in DS. You don't have to have all of the latest and greatest at the same time. Buy the content that you want and/or have a use for, as you normally would.  Whether you add DS to your tool set or not is entirely up to you, just don't feel you need to buy everything in the store in order to use it. :) All it does is give you more choices. 

To me, the various Genesis figured may well have been to highlight the technological capabilities of Studio, but it's a shame the vendors haven't. Clothes are still being made for G2 that are no different in mesh/texture quality than some stuff made for V3/A3. Higher poly count does not make the outfit better. Skins are also very poor compared to what is available now for V4.

BTW, I'm not saying ALL clothes for Genesis characters are poor, but they are also not hard to find. Look at the promo renders and they almost all look like plastic dolls. I've been looking at the characters of late, and not been that impressed. As I said in another thread, nothing I have seen to make me jump ship.

We have those that live in the dark.
We have those that live buy the philosophy ,knowledge is power.
Who rules ?

Question for the V4 fans.
Did we use poser for vicky or did we use vicky for poser ?
Which is more important poser or vicky ?
Would there be a poser with out vicky ?

Even thou no one ask I'll tell my philosophy.
Which app's do I hold a loyalty to ? NONE !
Which app's will I use ? ALL !
No one will defeat me ,hold me back ,or stop me from reaching my goals, ever.

I was happily using Poser with non-Daz content, and then the Daz figure bases became free. They gave something, they got a lot from me, and vendors at many sites who made clothes and characters for Daz figures, all generations from 2 to 4, got some of my spend. I use Poser and I'll consider using any figure that works in it, if that figure offers something useful to me or relevant to a project I am working on.

Through pure trial and error and perseverance I found out how to manipulate the bones in Genesis 3's rigged face, to make my own expressions, without any morphs. For me, right there, that is the distinguishing feature that makes me want to use Genesis. But the face rig must work the way it does in Studio. If that is lost in transferring to Poser, I probably won't use her. The face rig works much better than making expressions with morphs only.

Did we use poser for vicky or did we use vicky for poser ?
Which is more important poser or vicky ?
Would there be a poser with out vicky ?

Even thou no one ask I'll tell my philosophy.
Which app's do I hold a loyalty to ? NONE !
Which app's will I use ? ALL !
No one will defeat me ,hold me back ,or stop me from reaching my goals, ever.

This is the core of the issue: do you set out to create a certain image and select accordingly applications and assets or you first run your pet app and then see what you can do with it? From the comments posted in the last week, a very vocal subset of this community staunchly subscribes the second option. Like RorrKonn, I subscribe to the first. For me, every tool I use and every asset I own is useful, none of them is necessary or, utterly laughable concept, something to be "loyal" to. Even more important, I am always refining my workflow; I do not stick with an old method when there is a new, provably better one.

We have those that live in the dark.
We have those that live buy the philosophy ,knowledge is power.
Who rules ?

Question for the V4 fans.
Did we use poser for vicky or did we use vicky for poser ?
Which is more important poser or vicky ?
Would there be a poser with out vicky ?

Even thou no one ask I'll tell my philosophy.
Which app's do I hold a loyalty to ? NONE !
Which app's will I use ? ALL !
No one will defeat me ,hold me back ,or stop me from reaching my goals, ever.

Good question. I asked allready years (at Poser6 release) ago, if we need content for Poser or Poser for content. BTW: My rxperience in galleries is, that if you mention, that you use V4, for your render, you'll get more attention and better coments and ratings, than using any other figure, like Roxie or Miki. There seems to be a gallery reflex: V4=great !!!

We have those that live in the dark.
We have those that live buy the philosophy ,knowledge is power.
Who rules ?

Question for the V4 fans.
Did we use poser for vicky or did we use vicky for poser ?
Which is more important poser or vicky ?
Would there be a poser with out vicky ?

Even thou no one ask I'll tell my philosophy.
Which app's do I hold a loyalty to ? NONE !
Which app's will I use ? ALL !
No one will defeat me ,hold me back ,or stop me from reaching my goals, ever.

I am not sure I have a straight answer for that one, I know I used Daz for the first couple of years and I found I really liked playing with 3D.  So it was Daz that got me hooked though I did struggle mainly due to the lack of my skill, scant documentation and the fact that I had not found the forums (we are talking the late nineties here.) At some point I moved to Poser 5, I am not sure what prompted the move but I immediately found myself more at home.  At the time I remember thinking it is bound to be much better because I had to pay for it.  Of course I now know that is not the case but I do remember thinking I was very happy with my purpose.  Even then I was using Daz figures, I did try the Poser ones but always came back to the Daz figures.  Since then I have upgraded with each new Poser update moving into the 'Pro' version at Poser 2010 because I could afford to build a good 64bit PC at that point.

I am still with V4, now the Weight mapped version and still enjoying Poser but if V4 disappeared from my runtime tomorrow I guess I would still be using Poser.  

To me, the various Genesis figured may well have been to highlight the technological capabilities of Studio, but it's a shame the vendors haven't. Clothes are still being made for G2 that are no different in mesh/texture quality than some stuff made for V3/A3. Higher poly count does not make the outfit better. Skins are also very poor compared to what is available now for V4.

BTW, I'm not saying ALL clothes for Genesis characters are poor, but they are also not hard to find. Look at the promo renders and they almost all look like plastic dolls. I've been looking at the characters of late, and not been that impressed. As I said in another thread, nothing I have seen to make me jump ship.

I agree with you but I don't think the quality issue is restricted to Genesis 2 or just clothes.  It is difficult to find quality products and it has seemed to get harder in recent years.  Also the prices are all over the place, in general the are way too low for the effort put in but I have paid $10 for a scene that was brilliant and $25 for a scene that I had to modify a great deal to render anything like the promos. That is why I do not think the prices for Genesis 3 are unreasonable but the prices do add up so before I commit to any new figure I want to know the quality is there.

I agree with you but I don't think the quality issue is restricted to Genesis 2 or just clothes.  It is difficult to find quality products and it has seemed to get harder in recent years.  Also the prices are all over the place, in general the are way too low for the effort put in but I have paid $10 for a scene that was brilliant and $25 for a scene that I had to modify a great deal to render anything like the promos. That is why I do not think the prices for Genesis 3 are unreasonable but the prices do add up so before I commit to any new figure I want to know the quality is there.

There is one more thing to consider in terms of quality. Quality has, in general, been improving, but at least as quickly, for those of us that have done this for a while, so has our quality expectations. We aren't as willing to accept the issues we were willing to when this was new to us. 

I agree with you but I don't think the quality issue is restricted to Genesis 2 or just clothes.  It is difficult to find quality products and it has seemed to get harder in recent years.  Also the prices are all over the place, in general the are way too low for the effort put in but I have paid $10 for a scene that was brilliant and $25 for a scene that I had to modify a great deal to render anything like the promos. That is why I do not think the prices for Genesis 3 are unreasonable but the prices do add up so before I commit to any new figure I want to know the quality is there.

There is one more thing to consider in terms of quality. Quality has, in general, been improving, but at least as quickly, for those of us that have done this for a while, so has our quality expectations. We aren't as willing to accept the issues we were willing to when this was new to us. 

Very valid point, as my skills have grown I have looked for better quality and have been prepared to pay extra for it.  As with a lot of things in life though, a high price is not a guarantee of quality.  Some of the vendors have indeed improved their quality while others have churned out the same quality as the have for a while and the is more competition than when I first started. 

Would there be a poser with out vicky ?

I really don't know, but I'm sure there wouldn't be any DAZ without Vicky.

Regards,

Bopper.

@Shvrdavid
Check your PM's :-D