wolf359 posted at 8:58AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353867

To be honest Renderosity has Much more "relaxed" Standards for what is an acceptable DS product compared to the Daz store.

If Renderosity Did become a poser only store it would likely only be eliminating the Daz content creators who perhaps were not up to the Uber High standards of the "premuim"

Daz PA's and would thus lose their only outlet for selling.

This, right here, though I would add that Renderosity would hurt themselves in lost volume as well. Pretty sure they're in no hurry to do that while still paying down the debt incurred from buying Poser off of SmithMicro.

It will be interesting to watch this all unfold the sidelines.

Yep. That it will.

First you perfect the "Make Art" button...

randym77 posted at 9:01AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353893

I think Poser and DS have become too different, and trying to make them compatible would hold back both programs.

In a way, you're right, though I was able to load ancient Michael 2 bits into DS with only the subdividing textures not making the jump (but SubDT was originally leveraging a bug in Poser 4 anyway.) Amazingly, the morphs from the SubDT made it, but not the texture. Weird to say the least.

Anyrate, yes, the two are evolving, and the gulf is getting wider. It would do Rendo good to have a chat with the folks in Draper about a potential import-from-duf-format tool, and vice-versa (or maybe just enhance-import FBX, since DS exports easily to that format?). Dunno what DAZ' leadership is like these days, but I'm pretty sure Dan Farr would have went for something like that.

I do hope Poser will continue to be compatible with Vue. Including my older version of Vue. Not ready to commit to the subscription model e-On is insisting on now.

I kind of agree here. Poser had traditionally lacked atmospherics and the big-scenery stuff that Vue used perfectly. On the other hand, things have probably changed, so maybe just import Vue objects into Poser and call it good?

FlagonsWorkshop posted at 5:11PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353900

First you perfect the "Make Art" button...

Nvidia are doing that right now...

FlagonsWorkshop posted at 12:11PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353900

First you perfect the "Make Art" button...

Ah, the ever-elusive Make Art button. All time #1 requested feature. 8-)

and btw

Wotcher Pengy, long time no speak!

Khai-J-Bach posted at 9:17AM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353904

Wotcher Pengy, long time no speak!

Gratzi. I'm just curious as to how all of this will shake out. I got bored with the Genesis/Realistic stuff, so I've been mucking about in and among toons/anime/suchlike - starting with the old crap I've had lurking around, stuff I bought thinking I'd use it someday (and lo, someday is here!), and suchlike. Not as tied to any one platform this way (though I think Poser 7 is as latest I got, though I'm in no hurry to shell out money to upgrade when I can use that same price to buy a new brush-guard for the truck, etc.) But... I like to keep an eye on the thing, considering the time and treasure I've blown on CG stuff anyway over the years...

I'm not sure how much leeway we have on the subject, but frankly the reason I quit Poser was the more I learned bout Smith Micro, the more obvious it was they didn't care about it. They may have had people working on Poser that did, but it was never anything but an afterthought to top Management, and Smith in particular. I just wasn't going to put time and money into a prospect like that. I think Bondware is going to be a whole lot more dedicated to both the Program and the Community surrounding it, and I really think if you give them the time to fully get the project running you are going to be pleased if you are a devoted Poser user. Since DAZ has always been into content, I don't think they are going to see a reinvigorated Poser as a competitor, more of an opportunity, and I think they will be happy to work on standard formats since that's where they are heading now anyway - they want their characters to work in as many programs as possible. That's how they make money. I think the stumbling block in all this was Smith Micro who never really cared about content, they were just selling you a tool, it was up to you to make it work.

I don't see anything but good things ahead for Poser, I breathed a sigh of relief that not only did Smith Micro sell a program they obviously didn't care about, but they actually sold it to the right people. We really didn't need another Truespace.

I miss trueSpace.

since I lost my 4.3 install disk.. oh well.

and I'm hitting the limits of Sketchup. gotta bit the bullet and either learn Silo or Blender...

Penguinisto posted at 1:17PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353898

Nowadays, DS or Poser would require something on the order of 500-600 pages of documentation just to explain everything in it. This is now a full-time job for a tech writer (and not for a bored and at the time freshly-divorced codemonkey with nothing better to do on his weekday evenings.)

(I'm skipping everything before this in your post because none of them were my point when you were replying to me - but those are good bits of information on business anyway)

Poser has always been good in documentation - that's why baaaack when DS just started, I refused to touch it with a ten-foot pole and remained with Poser. DS just refused to let me know how it worked. Poser, however... you might notice the Poser Reference Manual for Poser Pro 11:

Yup, that's 1091 pages.

The biggest thing that can make Poser famous again would require a seismic shift in how people pursue their spare time. A lot of people love to do artwork, but not everyone has the time and/or skills to get past that cliff-steep learning curve that is CG, no matter how gently you try to introduce them to it. Fix that, and you have a high-volume money-printing machine.

I'm willing to bet Renderosity will want to invest in making Poser more user-friendly, considering what they were focusing when they updated La Femme - making the DEV tools much easier and faster to work with. (I know, I know, La Femme isn't made by Renderosity itself, but it's also signed by RPublishing.)

movida posted at 11:34PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353858

Where is your information regarding profitability coming from?

I think from SMSI published business data. Google on SMSI Investor Relations.

Quote from the presentation of the report on Q1 of 2019:

Our graphic segment reported quarterly revenue of $260,000 compared to $647,000 last year.

That includes Poser, Moho and the rest.

FVerbaas posted at 3:40AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4353994

movida posted at 11:34PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353858

Where is your information regarding profitability coming from?

I think from SMSI published business data. Google on SMSI Investor Relations.

Quote from the presentation of the report on Q1 of 2019:

Our graphic segment reported quarterly revenue of $260,000 compared to $647,000 last year.

That includes Poser, Moho and the rest.

Thanks for posting that. My point was that some fraction of $260k doesn't pay for a team of skilled devs full time. This means Rendo will need to inject a serious amount of cash into making a credible and compelling new version of Poser, one which enough people might want to shell out money for.

The other alternative is to abandon development and just keep Poser frozen in its current state, which won't create any huge expenses, but won't make any money either (anybody who will ever want to buy it has already bought it). But in this case, why would Rendo buy Poser in the first place? Just for nostalgia's sake?

What I'm saying is that I think they intend to release a new version, but this will cost them a lot of money, and my point was I hope they have enough financing to really bring Poser commercially back to life: Meaning, attract new customers who might otherwise chose Daz Studio, but also push people using old Poser versions to upgrade: A lot of the remaining Poser users still use older versions, which means that commercially they are non-existing, they could as well have defected to Daz Studio (for the record, I have bought all versions of Poser up to 11 Pro). Poser is a commercial enterprise, and its success or doom depends solely on how many people are willing to spend money buying the latest version (unlike Daz Studio, which is just a tool for using the content Daz makes money off).

You (general "you") might not agree, but unfortunately that doesn't change market laws.

Personally I sure hope Rendo has a cunning plan, is swimming in dough, and will release "soon" a version of Poser to make every CG artist out there drool. Unfortunately I'm also too old to believe in miracles... :-(

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:42PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353928 Poser, however... you might notice the Poser Reference Manual for Poser Pro 11:

Yup, that's 1091 pages.

Is that from SM itself, or written third-party? I cannot recall offhand. Also, I hope that 1100 pages includes lots of step-by-step tutorials.

I'm hoping that's not the actual vendor-spllied user manual, but only for one big reason - 600 pages or so is a lot, but 1100 pages would be intimidating as hell for the newbie who just bought the thing. Maybe if they laid it out to make it quick and easy to get started in the first few pages, then have a comprehensive reference after that?

I'm willing to bet Renderosity will want to invest in making Poser more user-friendly, considering what they were focusing when they updated La Femme - making the DEV tools much easier and faster to work with. (I know, I know, La Femme isn't made by Renderosity itself, but it's also signed by RPublishing.)

Doesn't matter where the figure was made in this case, at least not if said figure was sold exclusively here. But, Rendo would do good to hire the folk(s) who put that mesh together, or at the very least license it and invest some FTEs into maintenance and evolution of it. I say this because Rendo comes with a pre-baked market of goodies, but it will want to do more for itself in having an original figure (they did this before if you remember that far back - but this time they will have the original Posette mesh licensing that came with Poser, so they won't have to worry about license issues over the feet and hands like what sunk the Renda figure last time.)

FVerbaas posted at 9:51PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353994

Quote from the presentation of the report on Q1 of 2019:

Our graphic segment reported quarterly revenue of $260,000 compared to $647,000 last year.

That includes Poser, Moho and the rest.

Oh, Lord. That... that is not good if anyone were to rely on Poser as a profit center. That figure barely pays the salary and benefits overhead for an experienced tech lead and three decent devs, and I'm really hoping the majority of that income is Poser-bourne.

@rty - I know why Rendo bought it: survival. Without Poser, Renderosity becomes Just Another Vendor for DAZ Products. It's a smart move on their part.

The good news is, that revenue is enough to pay for a small dev team, assuming nearly all of it was generated by Poser (which I assume it is.) It gives them some breathing room to keep going, and enough runway to improve Poser. The potential is still definitely there, and profit from the bits-and-parts sold in the Marketplace can help fund things.

Because of this, I believe Rendo can pull it off. Here's why:

DAZ uses store sales to fund DS all by itself, and they keep a staff of something like 4-5 devs for DS (though they make a buttload more traffic and income to pull it off.

However, Poser is, in my guesstimation, self-sufficient (although barely.) This gives Rendo a bit of an edge by not having to follow DAZ' model of giving away the app and selling the content for it, hoping that profits elsewhere can cover things. But, they can toss in some cash from their profit margin and use it to really do some surgery on Poser, evolving it even.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Penguinisto posted at 12:17AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Doesn't matter where the figure was made in this case, at least not if said figure was sold exclusively here. But, Rendo would do good to hire the folk(s) who put that mesh together, or at the very least license it and invest some FTEs into maintenance and evolution of it. I say this because Rendo comes with a pre-baked market of goodies, but it will want to do more for itself in having an original figure (they did this before if you remember that far back - but this time they will have the original Posette mesh licensing that came with Poser, so they won't have to worry about license issues over the feet and hands like what sunk the Renda figure last time.)

It was my understanding when La Femme was released that she was intended to be the new default Poser figure (with a male counterpart to come). That she and L'Homme would be included in future versions of Poser.

Which now makes me wonder if they already knew that Rosity would be buying Poser when La Femme was created.

Penguinisto posted at 1:18AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:42PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353928 Poser, however... you might notice the Poser Reference Manual for Poser Pro 11:

Yup, that's 1091 pages.

Is that from SM itself, or written third-party? I cannot recall offhand. Also, I hope that 1100 pages includes lots of step-by-step tutorials.

I'm hoping that's not the actual vendor-spllied user manual, but only for one big reason - 600 pages or so is a lot, but 1100 pages would be intimidating as hell for the newbie who just bought the thing. Maybe if they laid it out to make it quick and easy to get started in the first few pages, then have a comprehensive reference after that?

I'm willing to bet Renderosity will want to invest in making Poser more user-friendly, considering what they were focusing when they updated La Femme - making the DEV tools much easier and faster to work with. (I know, I know, La Femme isn't made by Renderosity itself, but it's also signed by RPublishing.)

Doesn't matter where the figure was made in this case, at least not if said figure was sold exclusively here. But, Rendo would do good to hire the folk(s) who put that mesh together, or at the very least license it and invest some FTEs into maintenance and evolution of it. I say this because Rendo comes with a pre-baked market of goodies, but it will want to do more for itself in having an original figure (they did this before if you remember that far back - but this time they will have the original Posette mesh licensing that came with Poser, so they won't have to worry about license issues over the feet and hands like what sunk the Renda figure last time.)

Yes from SM itself. The ref and tutorial manuals were merged together in Poser 8 If I recall, and since Poser 8 a lot of new stuff added. fitting room, weight mapping, Superfly materials and rendering, dependency editor, morph palette enhancements, Animation path palette, revamped library, more I am sure but that is off the top of my head.

randym77 posted at 1:31AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354047

Penguinisto posted at 12:17AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Doesn't matter where the figure was made in this case, at least not if said figure was sold exclusively here. But, Rendo would do good to hire the folk(s) who put that mesh together, or at the very least license it and invest some FTEs into maintenance and evolution of it. I say this because Rendo comes with a pre-baked market of goodies, but it will want to do more for itself in having an original figure (they did this before if you remember that far back - but this time they will have the original Posette mesh licensing that came with Poser, so they won't have to worry about license issues over the feet and hands like what sunk the Renda figure last time.)

It was my understanding when La Femme was released that she was intended to be the new default Poser figure (with a male counterpart to come). That she and L'Homme would be included in future versions of Poser.

Which now makes me wonder if they already knew that Rosity would be buying Poser when La Femme was created.

If you mean the LaFemme team, no.

Khai-J-Bach posted at 1:25AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4353918

I miss trueSpace.

since I lost my 4.3 install disk.. oh well.

and I'm hitting the limits of Sketchup. gotta bit the bullet and either learn Silo or Blender...

http://truespace3d.free.fr/

Ah.. Yes. Thanks, but that's the frankly terrible 7.6... I know Ms get a lot of blame for killing truespace, but to be honest 7.6 was the real reason. It is horrible to use.

Deecey posted at 7:34AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354050

randym77 posted at 1:31AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354047

Penguinisto posted at 12:17AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Doesn't matter where the figure was made in this case, at least not if said figure was sold exclusively here. But, Rendo would do good to hire the folk(s) who put that mesh together, or at the very least license it and invest some FTEs into maintenance and evolution of it. I say this because Rendo comes with a pre-baked market of goodies, but it will want to do more for itself in having an original figure (they did this before if you remember that far back - but this time they will have the original Posette mesh licensing that came with Poser, so they won't have to worry about license issues over the feet and hands like what sunk the Renda figure last time.)

It was my understanding when La Femme was released that she was intended to be the new default Poser figure (with a male counterpart to come). That she and L'Homme would be included in future versions of Poser.

Which now makes me wonder if they already knew that Rosity would be buying Poser when La Femme was created.

If you mean the LaFemme team, no.

Thanks for the info! I was thinking higher up on the foodchain, though. They were clearly working together on La Femme, with SM sending out emails promoting her and featuring her on their web site.

rty posted at 8:54AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354029

The other alternative is to abandon development and just keep Poser frozen in its current state, which won't create any huge expenses, but won't make any money either (anybody who will ever want to buy it has already bought it). But in this case, why would Rendo buy Poser in the first place? Just for nostalgia's sake?

This scenario doesn't make sense, really. Rendo has more or less been supporting Poser since the late 90s. Since SM let the old Poser team go in late 2016, the progress on Poser and Moho has slowed down to a crawl (that explains the low revenue numbers). This is a "let's save it" situation, not a "let's bury it" situation. And I wish them nothing but good luck and success with it!

Penguinisto posted at 9:06AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:42PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353928 Poser, however... you might notice the Poser Reference Manual for Poser Pro 11:

Yup, that's 1091 pages.

Is that from SM itself, or written third-party? I cannot recall offhand. Also, I hope that 1100 pages includes lots of step-by-step tutorials.

I'm hoping that's not the actual vendor-spllied user manual, but only for one big reason - 600 pages or so is a lot, but 1100 pages would be intimidating as hell for the newbie who just bought the thing. Maybe if they laid it out to make it quick and easy to get started in the first few pages, then have a comprehensive reference after that?

It's a Reference Manual. You're not supposed to read through the entire thing - you're supposed to be on the program, think "hey, how do I use the Cloth Room?" then look for the Cloth Room in the Reference Manual. And yes, it works well as a tutorial for that. Which is exactly the type of manual I like having. Give me detailed information on everything, and let me check that information on just the bits I need when I need them. My ADHD doesn't let me read long stuff I don't need immediately, and the lack of memory that comes with it makes it useless for me to read everything about a program instead of just the things I'll put in practice right now.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 10:36AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354107

Penguinisto posted at 9:06AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354044

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 9:42PM Fri, 21 June 2019 - #4353928 Poser, however... you might notice the Poser Reference Manual for Poser Pro 11:

Yup, that's 1091 pages.

Is that from SM itself, or written third-party? I cannot recall offhand. Also, I hope that 1100 pages includes lots of step-by-step tutorials.

I'm hoping that's not the actual vendor-spllied user manual, but only for one big reason - 600 pages or so is a lot, but 1100 pages would be intimidating as hell for the newbie who just bought the thing. Maybe if they laid it out to make it quick and easy to get started in the first few pages, then have a comprehensive reference after that?

It's a Reference Manual. You're not supposed to read through the entire thing - you're supposed to be on the program, think "hey, how do I use the Cloth Room?" then look for the Cloth Room in the Reference Manual. And yes, it works well as a tutorial for that. Which is exactly the type of manual I like having. Give me detailed information on everything, and let me check that information on just the bits I need when I need them. My ADHD doesn't let me read long stuff I don't need immediately, and the lack of memory that comes with it makes it useless for me to read everything about a program instead of just the things I'll put in practice right now.

Actually, yeah, you should read through it. Doesn't mean you can't refer back to it from time to time to verify facts, just as you would any book.

To all :

Yes, there is a thick and complete Poser manual, and yes it is good.

But if you are in a room and need help fast? There is another option.

Goto to the room (the cloth room was mentioned) but the same goes for all rooms.

From inside the room => Go to the top bar and click : "Window" => Then click "Room help".

And you get all help for that specific room in a room specific window.

Best regards and have fun using the Poser tools.

EClark1894 posted at 11:08AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354140

Actually, yeah, you should read through it. Doesn't mean you can't refer back to it from time to time to verify facts, just as you would any book.

Not gonna happen in this life for me but it's good that it's there for those who want that.

tonyvilters posted at 11:09AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354145

To all :

---

Yes, there is a thick and complete Poser manual, and yes it is good.

But if you are in a room and need help fast? There is another option.

Goto to the room (the cloth room was mentioned) but the same goes for all rooms.

From inside the room => Go to the top bar and click : "Window" => Then click "Room help".

And you get all help for that specific room in a room specific window.

Best regards and have fun using the Poser tools.

Yep there's this too!

Bottom line is - back when DS was a new thing, the reason I never tried it for more than a couple of days was that it wasn't helping me know what to do with it at all. I don't know how things are these days, but by now Poser has already gotten me loyal.

tonyvilters posted at 12:46PM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354145

From inside the room => Go to the top bar and click : "Window" => Then click "Room help".

OMG, I never knew that option was there. I certainly could've used that when I first started working in the Cloth Room a couple of years ago. Luckily the vendor I was beta testing for had included a nice tutorial. Even so, this is good news for those who are, or will shortly become, new to Poser.

Hmmmm, I wonder . . . maybe now I'll be able to get through the Hair Room with some actual results. Hmmmm . . . .

I hope Renderosity brings back the Poser Tutorial. I remember learning about how to make a Cloth Room dress look as if the woman tucked the dress underneath her before sitting down. And it was so simple, I never would have thought of it if I hadn't seen that tutorial.

Deecey posted at 10:33AM Sat, 22 June 2019 - #4354102

This is a "let's save it" situation, not a "let's bury it" situation. And I wish them nothing but good luck and success with it!

Agreed, and Agreed.

EClark1894 posted at 1:18AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4353874 I am mostly interested in Superfly development myself. When I try to reproduce a Blender shader in Poser the nodes I need are usually not there. I also could care less about Genesis figures. I've spent my last penny at DAZ years ago (literally all the money I had). New Poser figures are definitely welcome of course. I don't do super close up renders anyways so Project Evolution, LaFemme, Hivewire figures satisfy my needs. By the way, why would you say that? (I want to hear what you say)
It will be interesting to see what happens to say the least. If and when a new Poser comes out, I'll buy it I'm sure. As far as Smith Micro's sales being way down, it's no wonder. You can't just sell the the same version of your flagship program forever, every prospective buyer would have bought it by now. I think the bulk of those sales went to Moho, it's actually quite popular for making cartoons. They dropped the ball on Poser's development and the new version was far from being complete. They canned the development team and the replacements could not handle the job. Plus the fact that they never handled their content marketplace very well, not much income there to bolster software development. I've seen it happen in my own life. Years ago a manufacturing company I worked for laid off 20 employees, myself included, and replaced us with younger and cheaper employees. They lasted 3 years and went out of business. I hope Renderosity gets some experienced programmers to work on Poser, first and foremost. The original team may not be available now, but that would be a blessing. The next Poser has to be more than a new splash screen. I would be happy with improvements to existing things, like a expanded Superfly engine and a better cloth room, but a lot of people would want more I'm sure.

More thoughts: The Poser figures have always been lacking, Pauline and Paul where better but hard to work with (from a development point of view). What I really want is something like the old creature creator for the V4/M4 figures. It was a complete system of morphs, props and materials for making unique fantasy and sci-fi figures. So much fun to work with. There really insn't anything like that for the Hivewire figures or any other that are compatible with Poser at the moment. There are some character packages available, but I want the complete package. I think it would be neat if the next Poser had a system like that in place for the next Poser figures. In fact I think a system like Make Human would be a gas for the next Poser figures. A quality base mesh, fully rigged, but you could dial your figure in on the spot when you load it (expandable$$ of course). Get rid of the face room in favor of a Make Human style room. (It's open source, hint)

ribroast posted at 8:55AM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354260

More thoughts: The Poser figures have always been lacking.

How? In what way? Could you elaborate please? I see this as a throw away criticism because most people don't seem to believe the base characters look attractive. But they're base characters, they're not supposed to. Look at Anastasia. I've heard nothing but praise about her, but she was made from Alison which I'll concede was quite far from attractive in her base shape.

The Poser figures are always lacking support from the content creators because they are a pain to work with, not because they are ugly. Pauline and Paul are not ugly, but they are not supported. Those G2 figures did not even have a symmetrical mesh I don't think (they are kinda ugly as well). I have Anastasia in my runtime and she is not ugly either, she's pretty much naked though, most of the time. If there was a good amount of Sci-Fi clothes for any of these figures available, I'd use the figures. I'm not advocating for Genesis support though. Poser needs its own figures to survive. New people are not going to invest in the program if they need to go out and get 3rd party figures from the get go. I think Poser has been lacking in it's base figures for years, they get no support, they just take up space on your hard drive.

ribroast posted at 1:18PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354334

The Poser figures are always lacking support from the content creators because they are a pain to work with, not because they are ugly. Pauline and Paul are not ugly, but they are not supported. Those G2 figures did not even have a symmetrical mesh I don't think (they are kinda ugly as well). I have Anastasia in my runtime and she is not ugly either, she's pretty much naked though, most of the time. If there was a good amount of Sci-Fi clothes for any of these figures available, I'd use the figures. I'm not advocating for Genesis support though. Poser needs its own figures to survive. New people are not going to invest in the program if they need to go out and get 3rd party figures from the get go. I think Poser has been lacking in it's base figures for years, they get no support, they just take up space on your hard drive.

It's changing though. Before SM officially announced the selloff, they advertised LF as the new premiere poser figure. So it seems like we now have our new Poser female, she's just being sold on the market first before she's packaged with the program. LF was also just updated to make it even easier to produce stuff for.

LF has support of vendors (the most I've seen since the G2 figures) and has a constantly growing list of items for her. It's wonderful to see a poser figure get so much support and such variety of items to choose from, her popularity is good news for Poser.

**JohnDoe641 posted at 1:37PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354338

ribroast posted at 1:18PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354334

The Poser figures are always lacking support from the content creators because they are a pain to work with, not because they are ugly. Pauline and Paul are not ugly, but they are not supported. Those G2 figures did not even have a symmetrical mesh I don't think (they are kinda ugly as well). I have Anastasia in my runtime and she is not ugly either, she's pretty much naked though, most of the time. If there was a good amount of Sci-Fi clothes for any of these figures available, I'd use the figures. I'm not advocating for Genesis support though. Poser needs its own figures to survive. New people are not going to invest in the program if they need to go out and get 3rd party figures from the get go. I think Poser has been lacking in it's base figures for years, they get no support, they just take up space on your hard drive.

It's changing though. Before SM officially announced the selloff, they advertised LF as the new premiere poser figure. So it seems like we now have our new Poser female, she's just being sold on the market first before she's packaged with the program. LF was also just updated to make it even easier to produce stuff for.

LF has support of vendors (the most I've seen since the G2 figures) and has a constantly growing list of items for her. It's wonderful to see a poser figure get so much support and such variety of items to choose from, her popularity is good news for Poser.**

I agree. I bought in to LaFemme right away. If LF is indeed to be the official Poser figure I'm fine with that, as long as the developers are compensated accordingly. Been needing a male figure for quite some time as well. I'm not knocking Dusk or saying he's ugly. There is not enough products (Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff). There was never enough stuff for M4 even. V4 products 100 to 1 compared to M4 products. I like my woman figures but for fictitious renders you need some men in there as well. I hear there will be a couple new Poser compatible males coming out soon. I will pick them up, but if there is not stuff to use with them they will just be hanging out on my hard drive for eternity.

-Timberwolf- posted at 12:17PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4353590

Khai-J-Bach posted at 4:20PM Thu, 20 June 2019 - #4353587

psst they can be female as well.. of LBGTQ+.... it's not restricted in any way at all....

Sorry, german grammar issue. In german language, "Troll" comes with a male article. (Der Troll)

So Daz Troll is incorrect? My mistake. I mean Das Troll.

JohnDoe641 posted at 12:20PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354338

ribroast posted at 1:18PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354334

The Poser figures are always lacking support from the content creators because they are a pain to work with, not because they are ugly. Pauline and Paul are not ugly, but they are not supported. Those G2 figures did not even have a symmetrical mesh I don't think (they are kinda ugly as well). I have Anastasia in my runtime and she is not ugly either, she's pretty much naked though, most of the time. If there was a good amount of Sci-Fi clothes for any of these figures available, I'd use the figures. I'm not advocating for Genesis support though. Poser needs its own figures to survive. New people are not going to invest in the program if they need to go out and get 3rd party figures from the get go. I think Poser has been lacking in it's base figures for years, they get no support, they just take up space on your hard drive.

It's changing though. Before SM officially announced the selloff, they advertised LF as the new premiere poser figure. So it seems like we now have our new Poser female, she's just being sold on the market first before she's packaged with the program. LF was also just updated to make it even easier to produce stuff for.

LF has support of vendors (the most I've seen since the G2 figures) and has a constantly growing list of items for her. It's wonderful to see a poser figure get so much support and such variety of items to choose from, her popularity is good news for Poser.

I have to agree. For the first time, I saw a La Femme morph that didn't look like La Femme. I got her right away to help support Poser but now...She has become interesting. Question : Is Rendo going to work with Evil Innocence to get a crossdresser license for La Femme?

ribroast posted at 3:22PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354334

The Poser figures are always lacking support from the content creators because they are a pain to work with, not because they are ugly. Pauline and Paul are not ugly, but they are not supported. Those G2 figures did not even have a symmetrical mesh I don't think (they are kinda ugly as well). I have Anastasia in my runtime and she is not ugly either, she's pretty much naked though, most of the time. If there was a good amount of Sci-Fi clothes for any of these figures available, I'd use the figures. I'm not advocating for Genesis support though. Poser needs its own figures to survive. New people are not going to invest in the program if they need to go out and get 3rd party figures from the get go. I think Poser has been lacking in it's base figures for years, they get no support, they just take up space on your hard drive.

Actually, I agree. But then Poser has never supported figures released with the program. No really. They might release some clothes or outfits, but they've pretty much always left support to third parties. Thus, DAZ, Renderosity, Poser Pros, RDNA, Poser World, Phil C and a host of other stores that have since disappeared filled that void.

ribroast posted at 2:33PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354352

I agree. I bought in to LaFemme right away. If LF is indeed to be the official Poser figure I'm fine with that, as long as the developers are compensated accordingly. Been needing a male figure for quite some time as well. I'm not knocking Dusk or saying he's ugly. There is not enough products (Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff). There was never enough stuff for M4 even. V4 products 100 to 1 compared to M4 products. I like my woman figures but for fictitious renders you need some men in there as well. I hear there will be a couple new Poser compatible males coming out soon. I will pick them up, but if there is not stuff to use with them they will just be hanging out on my hard drive for eternity.

With the fitting room, it is possible to convert clothing from one figure to another. My La Femme is currently wearing Dawn's and V4's clothes.

But like you, I want to see more male stuff.

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

EClark1894 posted at 12:45PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354364

Actually, I agree. But then Poser has never supported figures released with the program. No really. They might release some clothes or outfits, but they've pretty much always left support to third parties. Thus, DAZ, Renderosity, Poser Pros, RDNA, Poser World, Phil C and a host of other stores that have since disappeared filled that void.

This does lead me to a question of whether or not 3rd-party vendor sites will continue to merely survive, whether they will thrive, or...?

This merger, while needed for Poser's continued survival, does do one thing: It creates two camps: DAZ/DS, then Rendo/Poser, with each selling stuff that works in the other's ecosystem.

But, where does this leave places like Qraffx, Darkseal, 3DUniverse, etc?

Also, a question for Rendo at large: Will there be a blockage of links to competing websites (or is that still in place), or ...? TBH, I would much prefer a more vibrant (and not-so-under-the-radar) ecosystem of independent stores, but I can see that getting squashed as hard as legally allowed...

(I just hope nobody demands exclusivity as a condition of sales.)

randym77 posted at 12:56PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354367

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

I suspect that's exactly what happened. BAck in the day, everybody was a budding Boris Vallejo, and likely had D&D dice stashed in a baggie somewhere in a closet.

It's been what, 15+ years since the Lord of The Rings trilogy came out? Tastes change, methinks.

I have very, (read that as extremely) few friends here in 3D land because I have always been pushing and pushing the technical quality of figures and content.

Yes, yes.

Some new figures come around from time to time, but there is always something below average, and almost all latest figures required a manual to operate, a HUGE NO-GO for the general home alone end user market.

When I test, I test. I don't give bananas on how a figure renders. That's the creators and their beta testers Job. Of course the promo pictures always look f a n t a s t i c .

I look inside, see how it is build, textured, rigged, but guys like me become rare, very rare, and yes, you can also read that as "extremely" rare..

**And then everybody wonders how on planet earth is it possible that content creators run into issues? ? ? ? **

Reason? => No body looked "inside" before I did.

Beta testers don't know what is required in a figure any more. Most figure creators give their figures to vendors to build clothing before and at release, and ask them to "beta-test" for them.

Completely out of whack. As long as it renders OK, it is OK.-, and they can make some money.

Well, wake up call. => If a figure is NOT TECHNICALLY sound, it will NEVER become a MAIN figure.

=> => => Learn how to inside a figure and be extremely critical, you are the last and only safety net before release, and you could have made a lot of money. <= <= <=

But, feel free to shoot and live happy ever after.

Penguinisto posted at 3:19PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354370

randym77 posted at 12:56PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354367

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

I suspect that's exactly what happened. BAck in the day, everybody was a budding Boris Vallejo, and likely had D&D dice stashed in a baggie somewhere in a closet.

It's been what, 15+ years since the Lord of The Rings trilogy came out? Tastes change, methinks.

Maybe, but you'd never know it looking at the top sellers over at DAZ. It's the same stuff that was popular there when V3 was their new figure.

Perhaps everyone who wants that stuff has moved to DS. Poser did always have a "mainstream" customer base that I suspect DS doesn't. The ones who want business clothes and morphs to make boobs smaller, not bigger. I recently saw the G2 figures in yet another corporate training video. They seem pretty popular for that kind of thing, because of their ethnic diversity. (Yes, it's possible to make Vicky, Dawn, etc. into nonwhite characters, but they don't seem to bother to make a lot of changes for these things. Nine times out of ten, they don't even bother to change the color of, say, Posette's t-shirt.)

Speaking for myself as a vendor: I'm still very very much into fantasy, and will likely forever be (and yes I still have my collection of D&D dice handy).

What's happening for me right now is: the only fantasy clothing set I had made before, for V4, I deemed too much "revealing" for my current tastes, and with too many technical issues because it was made when I had less skill in 3d, so unlike some of the other stuff I had made before, I didn't want to port it into LF. Others are things I had started making, then set aside, and at this point as I no longer have the same resources (the plugins for Cinema4d that I've even forgotten which were, the brushes for Zbrush etc), I'd rather start over.

With my new-from-scratch products, starting with the casual top I've just released, my intention is to go from quick-to-make-and-basic for "essentials" for La Femme, to complex and that will demand my time but will go out with more of a bang - and those will by my fantasy things.

My current plan is to adapt the clothing in this old drawing of mine for her:

I plan to make one texture tribal like that, one elfy-like with runes and swirls, and one sci-fi-like with lights and computer-connection-ish stuff (oh look how knowledgeable of names of things I am!)

randym77 posted at 7:24PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354367

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

Something like this, you mean? (this for G3/G8 but I've been working on converting some stuff.

Shadow Moon

Deecey posted at 7:33PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354391

randym77 posted at 7:24PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354367

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

Something like this, you mean? (this for G3/G8 but I've been working on converting some stuff.

Shadow Moon

Ohhh I like it!

Very cute outfit. I like the layered look - the skirt over the panties.

Though I'd really like stuff that's more versatile, and less revealing (or with the option to be). Something like this catsuit for Maisie. You could make it into all kinds of things with transmaps.

A lot of the stuff for La Femme is dynamic. Which is fine; I like and use dynamic clothes. But using transmaps to change the look of clothing doesn't work that well with dynamic. The simulation runs on the whole garment, including the part that's supposed to be gone, and often ends up looking weird. In that respect, conforming clothing is more versatile.

Deecey posted at 12:36AM Mon, 24 June 2019 - #4354391

randym77 posted at 7:24PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354367

And definitely more SF/Fantasy clothing, or clothing that could be textured to be, for males and females. There really has been very little of that for La Femme, and I'm surprised, because that used to be what you'd get a ton of for a new figure. Brass bikinis for those naked in a temple with a sword renders, clothing suitable for elves and hobbits and space opera heroines. There's very little of that for La Femme. There's a lot of contemporary street clothes, and what I'd consider club wear - things which used be relatively rare back in the old days. I wonder if what's popular has changed since the V4 days?

Something like this, you mean? (this for G3/G8 but I've been working on converting some stuff.

Shadow Moon

I've been watching the Rpublishing/Rhianon stuff turning up for LaFemme and this is one of the outfits I'm hoping will appear. I bought the NyX destiny outfit yesterday and that's an outfit that would fit quite happily into a wide range of fantasy/sci-fi/gothic genre's and even contemporary (depending on what sort of company you keep.) Another point with LaFemme is that it's easy to convert some clothing for her. I converted the v4 bodysuit in less than 5 minutes in the fitting room and I'm no expert in doing that. And as soon as the LaFemme update was out I used the dress rig to convert the v4mfd, not a perfect conversion but good enough for me. However, I'd rather support the poser vendors, so yes, I really want more fantasy sci-fi items to spend my money on!

Nails60 posted at 7:50PM Sun, 23 June 2019 - #4354395

I've been watching the Rpublishing/Rhianon stuff turning up for LaFemme and this is one of the outfits I'm hoping will appear.

I have several on my plate, I just need about ten me's LOL

You know who did a great job of providing basics for his figures? 3D universe, for Toon Generations. Admittedly, he had it easy, since his toon figures could all wear the same clothes. But you could make just about any outfit you wanted out of the basics he provided, just with texturing. Here's a Toon Generations "Star Trek: Voyager" scene:

I'd like to see a similar set of basics for La Femme and her boyfriend included in Poser. Just judging from what I see of Poser "in the wild," there's a segment of the customer base that doesn't buy extras for the figures; they want to be able to use the figures as-is. A set of basics would also be useful for those of us who do buy stuff. Having a certain critical mass of users who own an item means there's more likely to be textures for it (for sale or for free).