Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 09 8:30 pm)
For a base figure, this is nearly perfect. Not too developed that it can be morphed into nearly anything. Making a base figure a little too detailed can be a mistake if it's meant to be morphed, so unlike others in this thread, I think your first effort was developed enough that it would be more difficult to make it look like much more than the base figure ;). Hope that made sense. ;)So, scratch that last bit from last year. Guess I was in a mood. Or something stupid.
Orion is back on.
Been working on him pretty extensively the last several weeks.
Stress test on his joints.
More to follow.
...Since you were curious about getting control props to play nice with morphs, a query you had on the 11 technical forum... I'll give you my thoughts here, seeing how the question relates to your figure dev.
Yes it can be done. I did it years ago with a breast morph pack I made for LF. Simply morph the chips into position as desired for the relative morph and apply the match centers command including the bone and prop in the calculation. In this example I morphed LF's breasts and con props. The con props are shown visible, opaque, and red with the origins for the props displayed in this animated demo image... as you can see prop's origins follow the new position relative to the morph
Hope this helps ;)
However, I've noticed that a morphed control props position doesn't seem to have much bearing on the actual deformations derived from its bone. At least with simplistic things such as breast morphs. A facial rig control system might be a bit more sensitive to such things... I haven't experimented further.
One final note about something you said in that same thread...
"Well while working with the visibility issue, I realized that each prop has a dial for all the morphs that are created in the body once it's been set up as a control prop. They don't actually do anything that I can tell but the dial for it is there. So I'm thinking it's possible to move them into position for each morph. Rather manual and tedious but I'll test if it works that way. Then maybe at some point it will be automated."
While I can't see your file(s) what you describe is familiar. It's also something most people seem completely oblivious to. Whenever you invoke the Spawn Full Body morph command a local empty morph target is created in each actor of the figure, even if not relevant to the morphs involved actors. For instance if I baked down several morphs (in this example involving the chest, abdomen, and collars) to a FBM called 'Inhale' via Spawn command I would end up with an empty dial named 'inhale' globally across the figure in all actors... of course the relevant dials in chest, abdomen, and collars (including the master in Body) will function as expected. The best part is that the empties also propagate to any parented props on the figure, a control prop for instance, including the goal and center of mass props (parms for such accesible via selection in the hierarchy).
This might be the matching named dials you're seeing in your control props that
"each prop has a dial for all the morphs that are created in the body once it's been set up as a control prop. They don't actually do anything that I can tell but the dial for it is there."
Something to be aware of to offset a potential wild goose chase, depending.
Everything flattens, joints/bones too, and locks, so no affect on clothing rigs. They don't even need to be included in clothing rigs. 😉Never mind, read the first post, I think my dream man is here finally. So the genital set morphs down to a "bulge" so that's cool. How does this translate when making clothing for him though? I guess if the penis isn't rigged with too many bones when shrunk down to a nub like that may not play against clothing creation.
I do worry about support for him with L'Homme, Dusk 2.0 and even M4 (still getting SOME support).
He looks yummy! Love the layout as his face looks like a dream to morph, as does his body. I take it he's set up for Unimesh natively or is it Poser Native skinning?
Biscuits posted at 9:30 AM Wed, 22 June 2022 - #4440204
Awe, thanks.How awesome to see you creating again Shane!
The huge advantage is polygons do not age! ;)
From experience I know that if you been out of the workflow for awhile, one tends to have to re-invent your own wheel basically, it’s relearning your old routine and the nitty gritty all over again.
And so I honestly believe continuing on a previous project is an even bigger feat then starting it for the first time.
I know one thing though…it definitely can be done, if there is still some old love lingering, the spark can be enlightened again!
So in my perspective, it’s an accomplishment to start-up again.
I wish you lots of fun, luck and fortune with Orion.
I shall not ask if Venus is out of the attic too…..oh oops now I kinda did…lol ;)
I've been working on them off and on the whole time, just sort of in the shadows. And of course, Venus is always part of the project.
For a base figure, this is nearly perfect. Not too developed that it can be morphed into nearly anything. Making a base figure a little too detailed can be a mistake if it's meant to be morphed, so unlike others in this thread, I think your first effort was developed enough that it would be more difficult to make it look like much more than the base figure ;). Hope that made sense. ;)
Yes, I've been trying to make them attractive yet generic enough to be easily modified into most whatever. Of course good morph sets go a long way towards that end too. And things will evolve over time.
I'm just glad I didn't rush to release early on, as looking back at my older work, wow was it bad, lol. At least imo. I'm never truly happy with any of it, to be honest. Even now. But I'm trying to learn not to let my perfectionism prevent me from moving forward. Easier said than done.
Yep, that was essentially my theory, to use the empties created by fbms in the CPs to move them into place. Haven't attempted it yet. At least I think that's what you're getting at.One final note about something you said in that same thread...
"Well while working with the visibility issue, I realized that each prop has a dial for all the morphs that are created in the body once it's been set up as a control prop. They don't actually do anything that I can tell but the dial for it is there. So I'm thinking it's possible to move them into position for each morph. Rather manual and tedious but I'll test if it works that way. Then maybe at some point it will be automated."
While I can't see your file(s) what you describe is familiar. It's also something most people seem completely oblivious to. Whenever you invoke the Spawn Full Body morph command a local empty morph target is created in each actor of the figure, even if not relevant to the morphs involved actors. For instance if I baked down several morphs (in this example involving the chest, abdomen, and collars) to a FBM called 'Inhale' via Spawn command I would end up with an empty dial named 'inhale' globally across the figure in all actors... of course the relevant dials in chest, abdomen, and collars (including the master in Body) will function as expected. The best part is that the empties also propagate to any parented props on the figure, a control prop for instance, including the goal and center of mass props (parms for such accesible via selection in the hierarchy).
This might be the matching named dials you're seeing in your control props that
"each prop has a dial for all the morphs that are created in the body once it's been set up as a control prop. They don't actually do anything that I can tell but the dial for it is there."
Something to be aware of to offset a potential wild goose chase, depending.
AmbientShade posted at 4:34 PM Wed, 22 June 2022 - #4440224
Yes. Not terribly difficult to create surrogate teeth, or even an extract and retopo set of dentures for more elaborate fangs and tusks... Though the feelings about such a thing are subjective I suppose, depending on the creator.Interesting that your layout is presented in Blender... man there are some really terrific paid add ons for Blender, UV Packmaster and Retopoflow are very good. But drifting here.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Tusks you say?
This is also Orion:
Granted, not Poser-ready. Not yet anyway...
Haha, thanks Elena.
Older project, was never really intended for Poser, but could be. Posed in Poser and Go-Z'd to Zbrush for detailing. Just an example of mesh versatility. Details can be converted to normals and displacement. Does superfly do normal maps? Or displacement maps? I always get confused on that, I thought there were issues with one or the other. I spend more time working on shapes than I do textures and renders and its hard to keep up with all the threads and info on these topics.
Wow, I thought you had dropped Orion and Venus, but am glad that you're back in the game to finish both figures and release them to an unsuspecting public. I can't wait to get both in my runtime! You have so much talent and these figures will be an asset to us Poser users. Please post more renders when you can!
Interesting, bookmarking so I can keep up with the developments.Same here.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x
Giana posted at 12:30 AM Fri, 24 June 2022 - #4440305
Thanks.i do hope you're able to complete them at least by the end of the year... they'd make excellent holiday gifts...
Orion will be ready soon. At least a base/vanilla version, and some clothes and morphs. With updates to follow.
Probably best to approach it that way for now, as adding all that I intend to do is probably a bit unrealistic and has a lot to do with the long delay.
structure posted at 4:58 AM Fri, 24 June 2022 - #4440308
Thanks, I appreciate that.I would say much on this topic, however, suffice it to say that I am looking forward to the release of your figures. They look great in the tantalizing previews you have shared, and if I knew how to model, I for one, would be supporting them from day 1.
You could PM me your thoughts if you'd like.
That goes for anyone else.
I'm working full time on this for the time being, so it should progress much faster than before.
Just an fyi for those wondering.
Thanks for the info. I’m interested as well.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x
He looks very good. I like the way the penis looks, very natural. The L'Homme one is kinda ugly I had to do some morph magic to it to make it look "right" to me! LOL
---Wolff On The Prowl---
RAMWorks posted at 7:13 PM Fri, 24 June 2022 - #4440331
I think L'Homme's was adapted from one of the older Poser males.He looks very good. I like the way the penis looks, very natural. The L'Homme one is kinda ugly I had to do some morph magic to it to make it look "right" to me! LOL
I tried to put as much realism into Orion's as possible. There's a total of 8 bones in the whole kit and plenty of geometry to do whatever you want with it. And if you don't want it at all, just leave it in its "off" state. There's really no reason for them to still be snap-ons.
And yes, for anyone wondering, Venus will get the same treatment with her lady bits.
Bravo
A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy
Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor
So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?
WOW, so cool!RAMWorks posted at 7:13 PM Fri, 24 June 2022 - #4440331
I think L'Homme's was adapted from one of the older Poser males.He looks very good. I like the way the penis looks, very natural. The L'Homme one is kinda ugly I had to do some morph magic to it to make it look "right" to me! LOL
I tried to put as much realism into Orion's as possible. There's a total of 8 bones in the whole kit and plenty of geometry to do whatever you want with it. And if you don't want it at all, just leave it in its "off" state. There's really no reason for them to still be snap-ons.
And yes, for anyone wondering, Venus will get the same treatment with her lady bits.
---Wolff On The Prowl---
AmbientShade posted at 8:14 PM Fri, 24 June 2022 - #4440334
....
And if you don't want it at all, just leave it in its "off" state. There's really no reason for them to still be snap-ons. ...
There is one issue there though. When dynamic clothing is used, defined male bits tend to 'catch and eat' the pants garment locally and leave the figure in a less than decent state. I played a bit with Apollo Maximus and found he was notorious for 'letting the dog out'.And yes, for anyone wondering, Venus will get the same treatment with her lady bits.
Ladies' bits, depending on the geometry definition may have same problem but at a lesser degree.
Problem may be avoided by using a separate figure optimized for collision.
Yea but Apollo had an actual hole that had to be covered with a geometry shield of sorts that I think Anton addressed. This figure is fully closed according the author above so I don't think dynamics should be much of an issue
---Wolff On The Prowl---
It has nothing to do with holes. Same effect can be seen with ears. It is facets with their normals pointing away from the direction where you want the clothing to be within a distance under the skin comparable with or less than the length of the edges of cloth facets. Collision objects should normally be convex. Of course on a human shape one has to make compromises and cloth-on-human simulators are tunes to cope, but the less locations where the desired position of the fabric is not clear on facet-vertex level the better. In my collisin avatars I usually take out all internals and 'spandax' all extremities.
There is one issue there though. When dynamic clothing is used, defined male bits tend to 'catch and eat' the pants garment locally and leave the figure in a less than decent state. I played a bit with Apollo Maximus and found he was notorious for 'letting the dog out'.
My understanding was that in the "off" state the laddie bits would be smoothed out like in the wireframes in the first post of this threat. Shouldn't that fix that problem?
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
odf posted at 6:42 PM Sat, 25 June 2022 - #4440367
FVerbaas posted at 2:26 PM Sat, 25 June 2022 - #4440360I think that problem can be avoided with a repel prop. Similar to how I made hand simulation helpers for V4, so that the fingers didn’t cause problems during simulation.There is one issue there though. When dynamic clothing is used, defined male bits tend to 'catch and eat' the pants garment locally and leave the figure in a less than decent state. I played a bit with Apollo Maximus and found he was notorious for 'letting the dog out'.
My understanding was that in the "off" state the laddie bits would be smoothed out like in the wireframes in the first post of this threat. Shouldn't that fix that problem?
The advantage with a repel prop is that you still see a visible bulge compared to putting it in the off state.
I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented. Many people that create characters for Poser figures might not have the tools or the skills (or whatever) to create a complete and viable human texture for their freebies. Not to mention the amount of work that entails. It's a stumbling block with every Poser figure I've ever seen. You might say "well then that would step on the toes of those that are trying to create paid products for a figure" to which I would say that competition is a healthy thing and the more the merrier. The cream will rise to the top regardless. It would definitely garner a more wide ranging support out of the box. Something to consider.
>>>> I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented.
Not unprecedented. Poser's Pauline and Paul meshes as well as textures were usable as merchant resources. L'Homme and La Femme base textures can also be used as merchant resources.
That being said, glad that Orion and Venus have been resurrected. Always liked these two figures.
For freebies? Afraid not. At least with LH/LF... I'll have to do some digging through the manual and ReadMe's for Paul and Pauline, but I'm pretty certain it's as I stated. Have you ever seen a freebie for LH/LF that includes a derivative of the bundled textures?>>>> I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented.
Not unprecedented. Poser's Pauline and Paul meshes as well as textures were usable as merchant resources. L'Homme and La Femme base textures can also be used as merchant resources.
That being said, glad that Orion and Venus have been resurrected. Always liked these two figures.
DCArt posted at 9:54 AM Sun, 26 June 2022 - #4440383I was just rethinking that after I posted. I think the Poser EULAs mention the Pauline and Paul conditions, I have too look back at LF and LHFor freebies? Afraid not. At least with LH/LF... I'll have to do some digging through the manual and ReadMe's for Paul and Pauline, but I'm pretty certain it's as I stated. Have you ever seen a freebie for LH/LF that includes a derivative of the bundled textures?>>>> I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented.
Not unprecedented. Poser's Pauline and Paul meshes as well as textures were usable as merchant resources. L'Homme and La Femme base textures can also be used as merchant resources.
That being said, glad that Orion and Venus have been resurrected. Always liked these two figures.
primorge posted at 10:01 AM Sun, 26 June 2022 - #4440385
Yeah that would be me. I'm not trusting my old brain at this point and will relook at the EULAs.Oh waitaminute. This is Deecey right?
So you're saying that LF/LH's textures can be used in freebies? Long pause.
I just turned 70. Dem synapses don't work as well as they used to. LOL
Depends on from where you use your base textures. Painted from scratch , could be done. From scanned human like Texture XYZ , no. They forbid to redistribute their textures like this. Even the commercial ones . Also other sites as well too.I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented. Many people that create characters for Poser figures might not have the tools or the skills (or whatever) to create a complete and viable human texture for their freebies. Not to mention the amount of work that entails. It's a stumbling block with every Poser figure I've ever seen. You might say "well then that would step on the toes of those that are trying to create paid products for a figure" to which I would say that competition is a healthy thing and the more the merrier. The cream will rise to the top regardless. It would definitely garner a more wide ranging support out of the box. Something to consider.
La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.
“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,
TheAnimaGemini posted at 10:09 AM Sun, 26 June 2022 - #4440389
primorge posted at 8:18 AM Sun, 26 June 2022 - #4440380Oh I see. If the textures are a derivative of, say, ref from 3D.SK... only commercial redistribution?Depends on from where you use your base textures. Painted from scratch , could be done. From scanned human like Texture XYZ , no. They forbid to redistribute their textures like this. Even the commercial ones . Also other sites as well too.I'm curious about the merchant resource aspects of the figure. Wouldn't it really be something if it included a basic texture resource that was usable for both commerce and freebies. Unprecedented. Many people that create characters for Poser figures might not have the tools or the skills (or whatever) to create a complete and viable human texture for their freebies. Not to mention the amount of work that entails. It's a stumbling block with every Poser figure I've ever seen. You might say "well then that would step on the toes of those that are trying to create paid products for a figure" to which I would say that competition is a healthy thing and the more the merrier. The cream will rise to the top regardless. It would definitely garner a more wide ranging support out of the box. Something to consider.
Well that finds a flaw with my logic, yes.
OK. For clarification. The Poser 11 EULA lists Pauline, Paul, La Femme, and L'Homme as "Vendor Resources" (see page 13 of Poser 11 Ref Manual). What it DOESN'T designate is whether or not that applies to commercial and non-commercial use.
Looking further in the "Content License" starting on page 16, it says "Vendor Resources may be used to create derivative works based on the Figure Files, Geometry, ro Texture Maps.I don't see any mention of commercial vs non-commercial in that Content License section.
Geting back to Orion, though, my only request is if Shane decides to go the route of providing textures as merchant resources, would be awesome if there was a hairless option. It's hard making changes to all that hair you guys have LOL
Ditto on that one.OK. For clarification. The Poser 11 EULA lists Pauline, Paul, La Femme, and L'Homme as "Vendor Resources" (see page 13 of Poser 11 Ref Manual). What it DOESN'T designate is whether or not that applies to commercial and non-commercial use.
Looking further in the "Content License" starting on page 16, it says "Vendor Resources may be used to create derivative works based on the Figure Files, Geometry, ro Texture Maps.I don't see any mention of commercial vs non-commercial in that Content License section.
Geting back to Orion, though, my only request is if Shane decides to go the route of providing textures as merchant resources, would be awesome if there was a hairless option. It's hard making changes to all that hair you guys have LOL
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
AmbientShade posted at 4:34 PM Wed, 22 June 2022 - #4440224
Yes. Not terribly difficult to create surrogate teeth, or even an extract and retopo set of dentures for more elaborate fangs and tusks... Though the feelings about such a thing are subjective I suppose, depending on the creator.Interesting that your layout is presented in Blender... man there are some really terrific paid add ons for Blender, UV Packmaster and Retopoflow are very good. But drifting here.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.