Don't know how many play computer games here.

But a hot thing within games is for player to buy extra content, like new weapons, skins etc. for whatever game they are playing. Basically the same to what is going on here on Renderosity or Daz, except people obviously use them in these programs.

So I looked up how much some of these companies sell these things for. On the top of the list, from what I can see, is a game called Star citizen, which is some sort of space game. So players can buy new spaceships to fly around in.

Players can buy this ship:

For the low price of 2500 $!!!

Another game is Counterstrike, which is a game where people run around and shoot each other. As part of the game you can get skins to your weapons, such as the one below. And some of them are very rare, so people sell them to each other.

This skin for a 3D model!!! sells for around 26000$!!!

What is wrong with people? :D

How about VTubers like Gawr Gura whose net worth is estimated to be between 1 million and 5 million dollars since her debut in sept 2020. She plays games, chats random stuff, and makes cute noises. Not a bad income. If you ever watch any of these live Superchats, as they're called, you'd be stunned by the ridiculous amount of money people toss at these virtual personalities. Strange world we live in. The writer Kurt Vonnegut once made a humorous remark about the vast sums we will pay to witness someone throw or catch a ball, tell a story, or sing a song... Things commonly associated with children's activities. Can't seem to track down the exact quote.

actually not insane at all , insane is the low prices for Poser or Daz models that actually should be sold at a way higher price. Most models offered below 15$ are way underpriced for all the hard work considering that the creator only gets half of the sale. if you compare with prices at turbosquid or similar sites you will not even get a 3d toothbrush for such a low price. So actually it is just cheap how Poser and DS creators are selling them selves, comes to it that it does not even sell better if it is cheap in contrary it sells less as it is cheap, even if the models below 15$ are of higher quality then to allot of turbosquid sold models over a 200$. If one want to get a 3D file he pay's the price if he does not like it he will not even pay a buck for it . Comes to it that Poser DS models also can be adapted for other 3D apps so in theory these should be sold for 10 times as much as asked until now it would also be more attractive for the creators.

The way Poser DS is priced is almost discriminating for quiet some great 3D works the artists offer, and even if a model is sold at a value of a pack of cigarettes' the customer moans and asks for more because he spent a 5$ on it ( Strange world )

@3D-Mobster

I like the work you done on the Handcuffs for example, but hey 4$ that is a joke ! I am not wanting to insult you rather a compliment for the work but considering that such a Handfuffs pack could be sold for a 40$ up for each license you should think about it if you are getting ripped off . just a sample of many , and I even believe that one who really wants them would pay the 40$ up if one does not want them they would now even spend the 4$ on it . At least the time you spent on creating the Pack make the Promo etc. would be payed off , and not just with a salary of cent per hour of work. You might just have to provide a few conversions for the cuffs and puff you are on 10x more for each sale. Add a extended license and you are at 20x more

@ Cryogen - you are right, of course, but the hobbyist market won't support that level of expenditure. It is, however, why I stopped making skins because they're a lot of work for little reward... if you do 'em right. I never used a pre made base and built up my skins from individual photos, which is very time consuming. At the end, you're competing against thousands of others, many of which were done quickly using base textures. They don't sell for long, either, so the end result is, lots of time and effort for next to nothing back.

Models, however, seem to have a higher perceived value, regardless of the effort involved. Now, I do put a lot of time and effort into my models - even the free ones - and in return, they stick around for longer. At the moment, there's only one on sale but I hope to get more out there soon. Anyhow, the level of effort is about the same, or similar, but the rewards tend to be more long term.

All that said, if I started charging hundreds - or even thousands - I'd probably sell the square root of fuck all. I'd rather get people buying my stuff than window shopping.

primorge posted at 2:51PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427043

How about VTubers like Gawr Gura whose net worth is estimated to be between 1 million and 5 million dollars since her debut in sept 2020. She plays games, chats random stuff, and makes cute noises. Not a bad income. If you ever watch any of these live Superchats, as they're called, you'd be stunned by the ridiculous amount of money people toss at these virtual personalities. Strange world we live in. The writer Kurt Vonnegut once made a humorous remark about the vast sums we will pay to witness someone throw or catch a ball, tell a story, or sing a song... Things commonly associated with children's activities. Can't seem to track down the exact quote.

I don't get it, I can understand that people want to support them with a few dollars here and there if they really enjoy it, but I have seen people throw 100+$ at these people, like it was nothing. Maybe they just have to much money and doesn't care, or maybe its some sort of celebrity thing or wanting to get noticed or something? Its not exactly like they are starving as you say :D Some of them makes millions of dollars on it. It truly is a weird world.

I tried to look up that youtuber you mentioned and you are correct its just some avatar saying weird noises, really don't get it.

Cyogreem posted at 2:55PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427047

actually not insane at all , insane is the low prices for Poser or Daz models that actually should be sold at a way higher price. Most models offered below 15$ are way underpriced for all the hard work considering that the creator only gets half of the sale. if you compare with prices at turbosquid or similar sites you will not even get a 3d toothbrush for such a low price. So actually it is just cheap how Poser and DS creators are selling them selves, comes to it that it does not even sell better if it is cheap in contrary it sells less as it is cheap, even if the models below 15$ are of higher quality then to allot of turbosquid sold models over a 200$. If one want to get a 3D file he pay's the price if he does not like it he will not even pay a buck for it . Comes to it that Poser DS models also can be adapted for other 3D apps so in theory these should be sold for 10 times as much as asked until now it would also be more attractive for the creators.

The way Poser DS is priced is almost discriminating for quiet some great 3D works the artists offer, and even if a model is sold at a value of a pack of cigarettes' the customer moans and asks for more because he spent a 5$ on it ( Strange world )

I would agree, given how much knowledge and work is required to even get to a point where you can make a working 3d model with textures, maybe a character with rigging etc. then they are sold way to cheap compared to that effort. But I think a lot of the market is simply kept alive by peoples passion for 3D, but the huge difference, is that people when people buy these things they still have a lot of work ahead of them. The 3d product, only gets you so far. Whereas a youtuber you just have to watch and be entertained. But still not sure why people are so eager at throwing money at them and then potentially complain whenever something increases in cost, to me that makes little sense.

If someone have enough money to just throw 100-200$ at a random youtuber, one shouldn't complain about anything in regards to money, in my opinion :)

Moving this discussion to the Break Room forum

** But I think a lot of the market is simply kept alive by peoples passion for 3D**

I imagine, in many cases, it's supplemental income also...

Cyogreem posted at 3:03PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427049

@3D-Mobster

I like the work you done on the Handcuffs for example, but hey 4$ that is a joke ! I am not wanting to insult you rather a compliment for the work but considering that such a Handfuffs pack could be sold for a 40$ up for each license you should think about it if you are getting ripped off . just a sample of many , and I even believe that one who really wants them would pay the 40$ up if one does not want them they would now even spend the 4$ on it . At least the time you spent on creating the Pack make the Promo etc. would be payed off , and not just with a salary of cent per hour of work. You might just have to provide a few conversions for the cuffs and puff you are on 10x more for each sale. Add a extended license and you are at 20x more

I agree, everything that is sold on Renderosity or Daz is underpriced, I wouldn't disagree with that, and as you say, even making the promos and turning what you have made into an actual product takes a very long time, at least for me, because I like to create promo material. Like the pose series with the police uniform, you have probably seen it on my store. That uniform for both V4 and M4, I made solely for the promos and that obviously take a long time as well.

I do think that Renderosity could attract more companies, if they focused on that like a "Sister" site aimed at companies, which need certain licenses and maybe focused more on standard 3d stuff, besides Poser and Daz characters. That could help content creators here, to maybe get a bit more for their work and obviously Renderosity to make more as well. But that is kinda of topic.

But thanks for your feedback regardless :)

primorge posted at 3:18PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427057

** But I think a lot of the market is simply kept alive by peoples passion for 3D**

I imagine, in many cases, it's supplemental income also...

Yeah sure some will do that, no doubt. But I still think the majority are hobby or self taught people. Imagine working all day with 3D and then you come home and do more of it, maybe they do, I don't know, I don't think they would bother to much with the whole effort to sell stuff and make product presentations, testing etc. Its really a lot of work, compared to "faking" something to look good, which most people do when they create art, the only thing that is important is the final image, but that doesn't really work if you try to sell it :)

SamTherapy posted at 3:25PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427050

@ Cryogen - you are right, of course, but the hobbyist market won't support that level of expenditure. It is, however, why I stopped making skins because they're a lot of work for little reward... if you do 'em right. I never used a pre made base and built up my skins from individual photos, which is very time consuming. At the end, you're competing against thousands of others, many of which were done quickly using base textures. They don't sell for long, either, so the end result is, lots of time and effort for next to nothing back.

Models, however, seem to have a higher perceived value, regardless of the effort involved. Now, I do put a lot of time and effort into my models - even the free ones - and in return, they stick around for longer. At the moment, there's only one on sale but I hope to get more out there soon. Anyhow, the level of effort is about the same, or similar, but the rewards tend to be more long term.

All that said, if I started charging hundreds - or even thousands - I'd probably sell the square root of fuck all. I'd rather get people buying my stuff than window shopping.

Its obvious a benefit if you can make objects, especially if they are PBR so you can sell the product for a long time, because PBR is not going away and my guess is that, it will only improve, so something you make now will also be good in 4-5 years, if it looks fine now. Where Firefly or these non PBR objects will die. I don't think they will be able to keep up.

I believe a good heart human being would feel really sad while reading this topic, and I'm sure this is the case for most here, this is a good community with good people and good intentions.

I would add a word here "gamification", I see this is a gamification of life. These streamers and others explore the inner emptiness and lack of self-steem of millions of people. Some (if not most) of the people who buy those products/services are really addicted to it, and addiction is a really big problem in any context.

From facebook to youtube to game skins, digital hyperstimulation is killing humans like war. I don't think the problem is that we live in an all connected digital age, that's a bless, the shared knowledge we have today is amazing, available to millions, but what we do with it? Most of us NOTHING.

One of the most common examples I see is the love thing. Finding someone, caring for someone, surprising your loved one, planning things etc, it all takes time and commitment. Then some people decide well why pursue all that if I can open this youtube video and have my "virtual girlfriend" talk sweet and tell me I'm the most loved human on Earth (as long as I watch the advertisement or pay the monthly US$ on onlyfans or whatever). Really sad. What will be of the next generation? Children of these (if any)?

About selling 3D (for context I'm an amateur coming from a non-related field of engineering), I believe one should pursue what's on your heart, no matter what, period. Because the time will come for ALL of us, and if there is one thing I don't wanna regret is that. Sure it takes courage and commitment, but it's the only way to become the best version of yourself. The part of making it viable is surely necessary, and it's your duty to make it viable, because YOU WANT IT FOR GOD'S SAKE! Worth mention Fight Club's Raymond scene: youtube.com/watch?v=JdwyAcJ8j2U

So what did you wanted to be?

Life is hard, and will be hard no matter which way you choose. I've worked many years in three different companies for multiple bosses, for money spent on futile things, feeling burned out. Since last year I'm finding my healing through digital art. Since I was a kid I've dreamed of doing something related to art, but always thought "I'm not good enough", "that's not for me". That's a lie, don't do that!

All I can say is: "Willing Seller, Willing Buyer" - deal done.

3D-Mobster posted at 4:32PM Wed, 15 September 2021 - #4427060

SamTherapy posted at 3:25PM Thu, 09 September 2021 - #4427050

@ Cryogen - you are right, of course, but the hobbyist market won't support that level of expenditure. It is, however, why I stopped making skins because they're a lot of work for little reward... if you do 'em right. I never used a pre made base and built up my skins from individual photos, which is very time consuming. At the end, you're competing against thousands of others, many of which were done quickly using base textures. They don't sell for long, either, so the end result is, lots of time and effort for next to nothing back.

Models, however, seem to have a higher perceived value, regardless of the effort involved. Now, I do put a lot of time and effort into my models - even the free ones - and in return, they stick around for longer. At the moment, there's only one on sale but I hope to get more out there soon. Anyhow, the level of effort is about the same, or similar, but the rewards tend to be more long term.

All that said, if I started charging hundreds - or even thousands - I'd probably sell the square root of fuck all. I'd rather get people buying my stuff than window shopping.

Its obvious a benefit if you can make objects, especially if they are PBR so you can sell the product for a long time, because PBR is not going away and my guess is that, it will only improve, so something you make now will also be good in 4-5 years, if it looks fine now. Where Firefly or these non PBR objects will die. I don't think they will be able to keep up.

The models themselves are provided with regular textures, compatible with Firefly. That's not a problem, since I always set things up with meaningfully named material zones, so you can go ahead and faff about with 'em however you like, substituting your own shaders if desired.