Has anyone phoned or seen Ian and/or Willow and got a direct statement why he did it?

"Any members coming here to promote fund raising of an obvious self serving purpose will be banned and NEVER allowed back. You want to help - Make the check payable to Red Cross. I am disgusted at those wanting to make a profit from this tragedy. This is not open for discussion, I will close this statement - grief earns a far different direction then this." all "profits" are going directly to the ones who need it - not the vendors or the store! not one single penny is being kept for any reason!!! and vendors aren't just donating items either, but money from their store that they'd already made before this happened!! the only ppl profiting from this are those who need the aid. i asked for this relief fund so that we could help those in nyc and wash. dc. - how else was a canadian, grief stricken and sickened by these terrorist activities, to help? we couldn't even walk across the bridge to donate blood. the only thing we could do was offer money.... if we had the liquid assets available, we'd have given directly to the red cross too, but then, if we had the liquid assets available, we would be putting all our creations in freestuff!! this seemed like a good solution, motivated only by the desire to help, not out of some machiavellian plot involving greed! okay. there have been some survivors rescued, which is wonderful news :) and a silver lining to the dark cloud of the PA crash is that apparently, the passengers died as heroes. slight comfort, but very laudable! they were all any parent could ask for!

http://www.poserforum.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002500 Is this statement suppose to be Willow's response to this whole issue? If so, how very lame....

You've got to be kidding me.

for a long time I thought the poser wars were just personal bickerings of a few people. I still think this, and probably all sides have valid reasons for feeling as they do. But in times like this, where so many members in all these forums have lost loved ones and/or friends and are hurting, its no time to attack people for old grudges. I used to visit the PFO forum from time to time - I won't be doing that anymore. They haven't even the balls to leave up the posts in their forum and take the fire for their management actions. They just ban people and delete threads and think like an ostrich it will all go away. They believe they can rewrite their forum history in Orwellian fashion. That's not a forum I want to support. I never liked 1984-style censorship tactics in forums and will not start supporting them now. I never posted there because I know my philosophy about art is vastly different than theirs, and my philosophy about forum management is also diametrically different than theirs. I saw enough disturbing posts from them regarding their censorship of nudity in poser art a year ago that made me think that's not a place for me to be. Sure they have the right to kick people out - anyone can act as the dictator of their own website - we also have the right not to support them with our knowledge and presence. Which is what I will do, boycott the site. I guess they will be happy the bandwidth goes down, lol. But the value of a forum is the knowledge and talents that its participants contribute - my knowledge or talents will not be contributed there.

Attached Link: http://http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/forum.mv?Announcements_News+read+8999768987#1000341517

A bit of info for those who don't know. I guess with the huge uprising of people on my behalf and others I am no longer banned from ErrorCode or the PFO's site. n8, an Admin at PFO made a public statement on this at 3D Commune. Needless to say I'm not to happy that someone else had to basicly speek on Grey's behalf. But that is fine and I will no longer persue any replies on this matter as I hope you do as well. It's over. Personally I, like I had mentioned before don't care if I'm banned. The whole essance of my initial post was one from the heart for the victims, famlies, friends and basicly everyone on the events that transpired this week. Since monitarly I cannot offer much help in these days of sadness I try and do what I can with the resources I have and is exactly what I did and will continue to do. I know there's been alot of you wishing to do something but for your reasons cannot. Making a banner, posting your feelings, saying a prayer or even lending a helping hand to a fellow member durring this time is a wonderful gesture that will not be overlooked. We are a family of artists and yes we have our occasional problems but we are still a family. We come from all walks of life, religion, races, countries and states yet we all share a common goal and interest. It make you wonder how things as bad as the other day can happen when in a small place in our world such as Renderosity and other sites like this have thousands of members each day come and join, mingle and share peacefully with each other. Hopefully the past weeks events are over and nothing like that ever happens again. Though it's an impossible wish to be granted. With this I'm done with the matters of myself, Grey and the PFO topic. It is over...I'm going back to doing what I love and getting back to work. Peace, GeorgeD

Charlie Brown, I think you made a very astute observation. Grey is as riddled with irrational hatred and prejudice, as any terrorist, and so acted like one himself, perhaps. It is a shame :( Such sorrow at this time, when we should all pull together, his immediate kneejerk reaction was to let his hatred overtake his good sense, yet again.

Well to my surprise I decided to go over to ErrorCode and try and meet up with a few of the PFO members and smooth things over and what did I get..nothing..I'm still Banned! That's what I get for trusting someone's word.

The PFO has proved time and time again that their interest are only in the area of promoting themselves...They truly have no interest in helping to promote the overall Poser community...It really is a shame that this thread even needed to be created based on the original subject matter...But I am glad it was brought to the public's attention here since all of us here now know, in times of terrible crisis they can not be depended on for any assistance regarding the Poser community at large or maybe one its personal members....I for one am very disappointed that they continue to recieve the support from some of the software companies that play such an important part in our having Poser to work with...I hope that will change in the near future....Everyone here that has responded to Render's effort to help out should take great pride in whatever they did...At least we have the satisfaction to know that we were interested in helping out even if others were not...

Attached Link: http://www.3dcommune.com/3d/forum.mv?Poser+read+9000964139

Scott, despite any past differences I've had with you, I can not tell you how right you are in your statement... A thing that troubles me most is the fact of how this actually reflects on Curious Labs, Egi-sys and DAZ when some zealot (being polite here)runs around to other forums, acting as if they are some sort of spokesmen for CL and DAZ and then becomes rude to members of those forums... which can be witnessed on the Commune in the thread where people expressed concerns about the new Online Store that Curious Labs will include in Poser and how it might affect sites that rely on their Online Stores to offset the costs to maintain those sites (which can be read by following the link provided). I... ...well, what can I say that all of you don't already know. I can say this... I will always offer any kind of support that I can to Renderosity or the 3D Commune, despite any differences that I have had in the past. That is what Community means... it may've taken me a long time to get it into my thick skull, but at least I haven't forgotten the meaning of it as some, obviously have... or never knew to begin with. Jack

LordsWarrior, "We're a community of artists...not a lynch mob." Oh how wrong you are my friend, you haven't been around here for a while. This place forms lynch mobs, witch hunts and crucifies people on a fairly regular basis, but it's usually their own members. I'd post links to the threads, but it seems all the Complaint and Debate topics before 8-6-01 have been deleted except for three....... Members here have even caused Morphworld to close not once, but twice, although it has been opened again. Not to mention chasing away some of the most respected people in the Poser community. You'll get used to the name calling and ignorant posts like most of the ones above, it's gotten to be pretty much the norm around here when there's a hot topic. Even with the country in crisis and thousands dead, this is the kind of thing you get here. There are some terrific people here, but there are a lot that aren't, as witnessed by most of the posts this thread. I wish you luck. Pariah, in reference to your last post, what, are you 8 years old? Coldrake

FYI Coldrake is a long time PFO supporter who posts there on a regular basis. Thank you Coldrake. For speaking up for them. We need to have both sides of every issue voiced. Otherwise we will be considered one sided here. Of course I don't agree at all with you. But we must be fair. Not biased. That's why we are successful here. We let everyone state their feelings. ScottA

Please can the flamage and napalmiage stop, and everybody concerned come together to sort out all these accusations and counter-accusations properly somewhere in some sort of open court and get the matter resolved?

"Pariah, in reference to your last post, what, are you 8 years old?" My reply was a little childish, yes, so out of respect for ScottA, rcook, and myself, I have deleted the post. It is quite hard to uphold a mature attitude when you are dealing with elementary-school-mentality-sandbox-bullies who kick people out of their playland just because they don't agree with their mindset. I hope that the PFO elite realise just how deep of a hole they've dug for themselves this time.

I deleted mine also Pariah. I agree. Now is not the time for any of us to be arguing. ScottA

Despite a desire to not aggravate others and a need I have (as many others) to be supporting and unified in this of all times, I am not feeling unified with the PFO! This was surely a time to put aside differences and to do what could be done. It is more than likely that Ian and Willow never followed the thread to see that the money was going directly to those needing it. They saw only "Renderosity" and their hatred boiled. As it was said here in a previous post it is much like the hatred of those who destroyed so many lives. I for one am on my way to delete all my free stuff offerings at the PFO, I want nothing to do with them. I do not want MY name affiliated with those who hate without question. It would seem that this is a good way for them to lose most all of their free items...

Geez I wasn't going to post here again on this issue but now I feel the need to. Scott A, et all... As I said in my original post #12 above I quote: "I also wanted to ask you to please do the right thing here and not lash out at Ian for what he did. I'm not defending him or what happened but I personally think that in light of what happened today that we all try to do the right thing and start somewhere. I was the one asking for the community to ask Ian nicely to reinstate George's status at the PFO. Banning the PFO or boycotting it or asking EGI to not host him anymore or whatever isn't the solution. The solution is to band together for once towards a common goal." End Quote. As I've told Ian in several site mails back and forth, I don't really know him, the past history or the PFO or Geroge D for that matter. All I was asking for was for us to see beyond the past and reinstate George as a gesture of good will in light of the horror we have all experienced over the last few days. Not for the community to band together to rid ourselves of the PFO or to argue or fight. Like I've told Ian and many others, maybe I'm naive but I see no reason why we all can't co-exsist and just agree to disagree out of respect for those that lost their lives needlessly and for those that are about to go forth and defend our freedoms. I for one will not get into name calling, public lynch mobs or trying to take someone down. These are horrendous times and we need to stick together and not fight amongust ourselves. Today is a day for remembering and a time to reflect and pray for those directly involved. Just my 2 cents. Mark

Emails sent.

Attached Link: http://www.poserforum.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002511

They kissed and made up last Saturday. For further info, see the thread at PFO Community forum for Ian's apology, George's reply and Kupa's comments.

I think it was all of the emails that made it happen...They would never admit to any wrong doing on their part...

Yeah, I saw that, Nance. And?

Just passing on the link. No "and" implied here.