Thats true IB, Maybe they are listening to our complaints, they just dont give a flying fuck! I would start a post asking for a reason for banning X2000 but I know where that would lead, first moving then locking with no reason given. Happens all the time doesnt it?

It be de Rosity way. ;]

Amidst all this controversy, so far the site management remains silent on explaining how it could make a decision "for some time," I'm reminded of an old Lucy episode and Ricky demands an explaination for what she's done. Lucy hesitates and Ricky impaitently yells "Well???" Lucy then says "Well do you want it fast, or do you want it good?" If we're going to get an explaination (and that's a mighty big if), they're apparently taking their time to make it good. That's the problem with lies: you have to make them believable.

Yep,I guess it be so. This site needs an enema. I would say a lobotomy but they had one about a year ago.

"That's the problem with lies: you have to make them believable. " Thats the problem though, they have never been good liars. To be a good liar you have to respect the intelligence of the person your lying to. They dont respect our intelligence so they feel they can just wing it and we wont see through it. Either that or they JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK!

It's the usual pattern: they're circling the wagons, trying to figure out how to spin this so they won't just make it worse (then they'll make it worse). Also, they figure it'll calm down on its own pretty soon, and if anybody gets too vocal they'll just ban 'em for a few days, like x2000. I'm significantly pissed, though, and I'm not going to let this go anytime soon. I think if we really give a shit about being treated like livestock, we have to let our wallets do the walking. Hang out, suck up bandwidth, and boycott the MP till they do the right thing. Now let's see how long before I get banned.

Oh come on - none of the regulars here can really be surprised by this - disgusted and nauseous - sure thing, but surprised no. Sadly it has become more and more obvious that the people don't matter and contests are hosted here for top merchants and moderators to win only. Again - no real surprise. So move on folks - nothing unusual to see here. Go on git! There will be a repeat of this type of show before the year is out and plenty more next year. hey you! yeah you! Don't you dare post that commentary about staff here winning contests and hiding it, no don't if you even so much as mention it as relevant to yet another contest you will be outta here! Over there - stop typing! There is no reason to get all logical and show that there must have been 2 mistakes, the poll itself and the announcement of it - no one is actually listening because we don't really want you to interact in the community - post pictures so people will look, sell your stuff and buy even more - but other than that please don't bother. ;-D

Sounds like bullshit to me. Not surprising. God forbid someone who the admins don't approve of should get voted in as AOY. "Commie" Admin at large.

LSM--you're right, of course, big picture. This is neither the first nor the last such R'osity cluster-fuck. But for some reason this one gets my particular goat--the notion that only Bondware-approved artists deserve to be honored as AOY just flat riles me. If we needed any further proof that the MP tail wags the gallery dog, this is the smoking gun. It's galling, it's hypocrisy, it's a declaration of war on anyone who might have the temerity to post anything other than the usual product-driven image in the galleries here. Close to the last straw, for me.

Wow this is fun. Like a Jerry Springer episode, once you start watching you cant look away. Im repulsed yet strangely aroused at the same time.... ummm did i say that outloud?

"Im repulsed yet strangely aroused at the same time...." Welcome to my world.

ewwww..... unwanted images...

Doc?!?!? Controversial?!?!?1 nawwww there are times that docs offbeat work is exactly what's needed to help maintain some semblance of sanity. I do beleive that doc's off beat images have contributed a lot to this community. on the subject of the voting, I think that by pulling the poll a huge mistake was made, that will cause a lot of noise, and add to the distaste that is growing around this site, caused by such controversal actions by the Admins. but we ALL know, making noise won't change anything. ( except maybe get you banned for your noise-making ) how the poll was made live is not the issue, the issue is pulling it afterwards. when the flames start getting higher, just remember that.

Then leave.

Scott, why? has the TOS been changed so that we aren't allowed to express our personal opinions? which would violate the freedom of speech the federal government guarantees.

lol :) Leave... And miss all of this?

That's not what I mean. If you folks hate this place so much. And it's so unfair. The act of staying here makes you look: _______________ Please fill in the blank yourselves. I don't wish to call people names. Especially during the holiday season.

if I hated it I wouldn't be here. ~g~ I just posted my opinion on what exactly is the issue being screamed about, and what the "mistake" made is. we have all seen that the noise won't change it, but people have to have thier screamfest.

leave? hate this place? are you kidding? you don't get entertainment like this anywhere else! This is better than Jerry Springer!

The act of staying here makes you look: Entertained :)

You seem so jaded by the whole affair Scott, I wonder that you don't leave yourself and let the folks that wish to voice their objections do so without you interjecting yourself as an apologist for the management. The reason I am commenting in this thread is precisely because I consider the incident unfair and feel I have every right to voice my opinion. It may suit you to walk away every time you are insulted, however, that is not the way of many here in this thread, whether you agree with it or not.

I don't think that will all fit in the blank Brendan. 8-)

Entertained? It sointanly does me, Stanly. Er... Wadus. ;]

Popcorn's ready....

hey Jackie, pass some over here will ya? ;)

Of course it wouldn't Scott, I can't do glib as well as you, but the more you post, the more I learn how it is done.

The thing that pisses me off Scott is I TOOK the time to vote! How many members are there at Rosity? How many take the time to vote? Now Im new to the community, but I did take the time to vote. Now Im told my vote isn't worth shit. Did you vote Scott? If you did aren't you a little pissed off that the vote you cast isn't valid anymore. That the admin. of this site think you and your fellow members aren't capable of making the decision as to who AOY is? Then to hear a lame assed excuse about there being a mistake? This is a big site, supposedly run by professionals, where are their heads at? DO they really think everyone is stupid enough to believe that?

In protest to this I am pulling all of my stuff from here and will not visit this site till AOY Poll is back. I think of Florida balleting when I heard this. YES I DID VOTE FOR LEGUME!

If it was a coding error, why was it posted in almost every forum, not to mention the front page? Contest rigging. This is beneath contempt. Just out of curiosity, have the renderosity managment thought of any more ways to sink to even lower unexplored depths? Server glitch my ass.

Or concerned. Or interested in fair and responsive management of the site. What I'm curious about, Scott, is what your role is in this discussion--first you suggest that the whole thing was a screw-up by the programmers (I'm sure they're thrilled to hear that), now you're hauling out the rusty old "if you don't like it, get out" reasoning. I assume you're speaking unofficially here, and not as a representative of R'osity, but either way my answer's the same: all I'm doing is appealing to the admin's sense of fair play. As a customer and long-time member, I'd like to think that the business I'm supporting is capable of running an honest and unbiased contest, and trusts its customers enough to let them decide the outcome for themselves, per the published rules. And there are borader implications--the message is that only Bondware-approved, product-driven art is welcome, and that's frankly pretty disturbing. I'd like to think that wasn't the case--I'd like someone at the admin level to enter one of these threads and explain, truthfully, the reasons for this abrupt change of course--but so far that hasn't happened. Sorry you object to that message, but it's really not your place to tell anyone to leave.

I'll say what I want Mosca. 8-)

Pass the popcorn Jackie, I brought the wild turkey.... I personally voted for Nitro, although gevidal almost got it. It was a damned hard decision, but I'm glad to know it ment something.

"I'll say what I want Mosca. 8-) " So will we Scott. You didnt answer my question though, did you vote?

I don't understand X2000 being banned for (I assume-the post is gone) stating a fact while ScottA definitely violated the TOS sometime last week in the Poser forum and didn't get banned. (at least to my knowledge if he did I'm sure someone will correct me)
Nothing personal to Scott, I don't care one way or the other I'm just pointing out something obvious.

On the poll, if it's been a public poll in the past and the reasons for pulling it are because of Legume I can see both sides of this.
On one hand it is unfair to Legume. If he is the popular vote so be it.
On the other hand, if people are voting out of some sort of spite or to get back at Renderosity for past differences then you should be able to see how posting messages in the forums and rallying everyone to vote for this reason is unfair to the other artists in the running and why they'd want to put a stop to it.
And nothing against Legume here either. I just find it ironic how suddenly contests like this are so important but when controversy in the Hot20 or AOM comes up everyone is tripping over themselves to be the first to say they don't care about such things.

"I'll say what I want Mosca. 8-)" And you have, at length, without engaging in any discussion of the actual issue here, which is why it's okay from the admins' point of view to fix a contest because one of the contestants is "difficult."

That was an inside Joke to Mosca Spirit. No. I didn't vote. Mainly beacuse I don't feel qualified to judge art images. I'm as far from an artist as you can get. But I will if a new poll is posted. Because I feel bad for Legume and ToxicAngel.

Fair enough Scott. I hope you get the chance to cast your vote.

And you have, at length, without engaging in any discussion of the actual issue here, which is why it's okay from the admins' point of view to fix a contest because one of the contestants is "difficult." All of a sudden it's now fact that the contest was fixed? I must have missed the post from the admins. Where is that one? I've merley been saying that I accept Tim's apology for making a web site layout mistake. If someone has spoken up and said it was rigged. I'll be glad to pick up a pitch fork and storm the castle too.

"On the other hand, if people are voting out of some sort of spite or to get back at Renderosity for past differences then you should be able to see how posting messages in the forums and rallying everyone to vote for this reason is unfair to the other artists in the running and why they'd want to put a stop to it." I haven't seen any indication that this was happening. Certainly, everyone has the same opportunity to canvass for votes, and people's reasons for voting the way they do are their own business. I think the great unfairness has been perpetrated on the members; once again the PTB have decided that the customers are dangerous half-wits, loose cannons that can't be trusted with the most rivial decisions. And their response thus far has been insulting and disingenuous.

Well, no surprises here - apart from the fact that Scott mentions he gets messages from members saying that Legume makes the site look like a joke. How the hell could he do that? The staff have that all sewn up........ And Cheryle, yeah, I'd sooner see jack shit than that load of sexist crap.

"All of a sudden it's now fact that the contest was fixed? I must have missed the post from the admins. Where is that one?" Where is ANY response from the admins, other than Tim's lame assertion that "it was a mistake"? Sure it was a mistake, as soon as it looked like Legume had a chance of winning. "I've merley been saying that I accept Tim's apology for making a web site layout mistake." Fine, good for you. But a mere apology doesn't fix it. Let's reinstate the poll and let the member-customers make the decision, per the published rules. Let's NOT just make the poll disappear without explanation or apology to the contestants or the voting members (at least not until people started raising hell). I guess what I'm asking you, Scott, is what solution you propose?

My solution is to accept their apology. And let them run their own web site they way they want to. Membership doesn't give me the right to accuse someone of fixing a contest with no proof. Neither does freedom of speech.

..."Membership doesn't give me the right to accuse someone of fixing a contest with no proof." But removing a contest vote mid stride does give us the right to ask these people Tennessee Office of the Attorney General Davy Crockett Tower 500 James Robertson Pkwy. Nashville, TN 37243 (615) 741-4737 to look into it. IIRC last years prize was more than one weeks salery for me and i make good money- last years aom got siggraph tickets and a hotel room etc.

"My solution is to accept their apology. And let them run their own web site they way they want to." What have they apologized for? Certainly not for taking the AOY voting out of the hands of the members--only for offering it in the first place. And frankly, I don't find the "mistake" excuse particularly convincing--exactly how was such a mistake made? When was the decision made to place AOY selection in the hands of mods/admins, and why weren't the members notified? Your "solution" does nothing to address the concerns of the member-customers OR the contestants--all it does is let the staff off the hook. And of course they're entitled to run the site as they see fit--but I'm equally entitled to protest, within the TOS, when I feel that certain members are being discriminated against because their views are controversial. "Membership doesn't give me the right to accuse someone of fixing a contest with no proof." Frankly, it's hard to arrive at any other conclusion, since none of the admins have bothered to offer an explanation that actually makes sense.

Kendra, in #88:

On the other hand, if people are voting out of some sort of
spite or to get back at Renderosity for past differences
then you should be able to see how posting messages in the
forums and rallying everyone to vote for this reason is
unfair to the other artists in the running and why they'd
want to put a stop to it.

Renderosity may want to put a stop to it, but yanking the
vote away from people is hardly the way to do it. All they
are achieving is to generate more 'past differences' for
the future, if in fact they yanked the vote for the reasons
that people here suspect.

No matter what the skill level or motive, art cannot be
seperated from opinion. They are one and the same. To
disallow a public response to art (or the artist) is to
deny the fact of what art is.

I call on Renderosity to re-open the public vote for AoY.
To do anything else at this point is to lend credence to
the suspicions that have been raised, regardless of
what the actual reason for the closing of the vote was.

And Scott, you still haven't explained what your role is here. Are you presently in discussion with admin staff regarding this issue? I don't understand what your interest is in entering these threads as an apologist for management if you're acting in a purely unofficial capacity.

It's only apologist from your POV Mosca. You claimed that they fixed the contest with no proof. Just assumptions. I showed you how it could be a simple mistake. That's all. All the other stuff was your brain trying to catagorize me into the I'm not with you catagory. You assumed my position the same way you assumed the admins. played dirty pool. My actuall POV never came up. You were too busy chastising me for posting a message that didn't state let's get em'.

You didn't really answer the question, Scott. "I showed you how it could be a simple mistake." Pretty thin cloth; others have pointed out that multiple, related errors would have to have been made for this to happen. What are the odds, even around here? "You assumed my position the same way you assumed the admins. played dirty pool." All I did was ask. What IS your position? "My actuall POV never came up." Now's your chance.

Well, if I was any of the AOY Nominee's I know that I'd be pretty pissed. For example if I was Legume or ToxicAngel and I wasn't selected, I'd be dialing up the Attorney General for contest rigging. The only way I see out of this for Rosity is to award both ToxicAngel and Legume the award of AOM, since reinstating the POLL would mean recasting ballets... Far as I am concerned, from last I looked, Legume won. Now give him his fucking prize!! Jack

That should be AOY... sorry about that. Jack