Thanks for throwing yourself to the wolves, but-- 1. It appears you're apologizing for having the poll put up in the first place, not for taking it down. My view is that the "error," the unfair part of all this, lay not in posting it, but in taking it down once the voting had begun. Maybe you could address that. 2. Voting errors/discrepancies may be a problem, I can't speak to that--but if they're such a big deal, why are members still allowed to vote for AOM? Shouldn't clone voting be just as much an issue for AOM as it is in selecting the AOY? This part really didn't make sense to me, and I'm hoping you can explain it. Also, why do you appear to change the rules whenever Legume wins or is about to win a contest/prize? Is that just coincidence or bad timing or what? 3. Apologies are nice, and I'm glad management finally responded to this issue, sort of, but you really haven't said anything new, or offered any solutions. Surely, if the admin staff select the AOY now, according to the new (or old but bungled) plan, won't that decision look a little suspect, no matter who the "winner" is? The contest is discredited, in my view, and I wonder how you plan to fix it--what solution can management offer that's fair to all? 4.Is it now R'osity policy that members who "make trouble" and "bitch" will no longer be considered for prizes, honors, etc.? Certainly, this is the appearance you've created. If that's the new policy, do you really think it's fair? If all contests are decided by the admins, won't it look like you're just giving prizes to your friends? Please understand that I'm not trying to stir things up or make trouble--I think these are legitimate questions and I think the membership, however irresponsible or intellectually impaired, deserve an answer. I wish you and the entire staff the happiest of holidays-- Mosca

One more question: management's position appears to be that past voting irregularities are the reason for the sudden change in the AOY selection process. So, if the voting system can be made "cheat proof," will managment reinstate member voting? Maybe the solution is to suspend AOY selection until the voting process is fixed--so there's no question about the results--and then start over from zero (same contestants, of course)? Not perfect, but certainly more fair than simply snatching the process out of the members' hands.

And all this could not be asked or discussed further in e-mails? After all that has happened here this passed while you still go on and on? Am I the only one getting sore ears about all this? Do you have a nagging wife Mosca? With no offense meant at all I only ask this because sometimes those that do usually have a lot of issues, like you seem to. I can understand folks being frustrated around here about mistakes being made but Mosca, you are clearly sounding a lot like a broken record here now. It is Christmas time and I cannot even hear Rudolf's bells nevermind Santa going ho, ho, ho because you keep singing the same song so very loud over and over again. Maybe it's time to sing carols instead because they do blend in so much better with the yuletide? Am I really the only one getting a little tired of the complaining about the same thing? I do apologize for my own words, but this all just seems so Grinchly to me after a while. Happy Holidays and may you get many nice presents Mosca, I mean that sincerely.

Lame excuse for not discussing a problem. What was "Grinchly" was what happened in the first place. Just sooooo terrible that people believe in justice and fairness and are painted as whiners if a problem does'nt get resolved or the issue is'nt addressed properly.

Do you like it here Schumacher? Would you rather not be on the forum from hell at all then, since the folks that run this place seem to be so bad and mean and evil and most probably devils? It would appear as if there are a lot of folks around here that just cannot stand this place at all, not even at Holiday Time will they stop their spitting and tossing tomatoes at the host of this place because dear Lord, they made a horrible mistake and shall be damned to hell for it forevermore! Even an apology is not good enough. Not even if this Ms. Tammy were to lop off her head before all of you, would you let up. You would probably ask for another limb, an arm, a leg, when will it stop? I do admire your passions for rightiousness, I do not adore your lack of compassion for human err. Perhaps you or Mosca should start lighting torches to lead the maddening crowd, the castle awaits and the folks that run the place are Mr. and Mrs. Frank N. Stien. Cast your stones while you can, tomorrow you may actually all wake up happier about something in this place again. Heavens!

For starters, everyone out of grade school knows how to properly run a contest. They know the difference between taking a survey and asking for a vote. and since this does not seem to be the first time this has happened, Mosca seems right on the money about the so-called "contests" being shams. And yes I do like it here and like many others I expect the site to be held by the same standard as the rest of the world. Maybe if problems like this were properly addressed in the past instead of being swept under a rug (like now) they would not be snowballing into "the problem fom hell". When/if the postal inspectors/S.A.G.'s get hold of this, (as mentioned in previous threads) some would wish they had addressed this problem. To each their own I guess:^
Merry Christmas!

And the beat goes on.

Yes Mongo, the beat certainly does drum forever here it would seem. I have found it rather amazing how easy it is to find dance partners in this forum just by having a difference of opinion to all the "hecklers" here. When it comes down to it, I sometimes wonder how the people running this forum ever DO get anything of value done for this place at all, what with all the constant consistent hecklers and jecklers they have here that seem to think they have a right to run amock evertymine Ms. Tammy or whomever else just raises a wrong finger or says anything out of the hecklers' context. I am inclined to understand how the forum personel CAN INDEED make mistakes here now; they have to tip toe on such egg shells around here for the constant concern that they might piss off the hecklers and start another long tirade, it must be like walking on marbles or a mine field too many times! Schumacher, grade school has nothing to do with it at all. Far too many times the higher your education, or should I just say, school level because many times the "education" part is questionable even still; the more apt you are to have even colder, harder monetary morals. I suppose what I mean is I see a lot more University Grads trying to pull a fast one via contests and scams than I ever see from those lower life forms, (as you would see them). I could care less if the folks running this place are low life form grunting numbskull Neanderthals that froth at the mouth and just created this place on a fluke with a 486 computer one day, or whether they are President Bush and family in disguise or even Bill Gates and family with the best darn servers possible; we really should be more grateful and show more respect and stop this infernal heckling. If you really want something to ponder, what if Bill Gates ever did buy this forum some day and I am sure the first thing he would do is change the name to Microsoftosity; I would like to see the tunes change around here then. The hecklers would drown in their own excrements full of excitement. Deck the halls, a joyful Christmas day to you and all.

"BillyJ"- no artist page, no gallery, no contributions. Total number of posts, 51.

BillyJ, put yourself in their shoes. You may be sick of hearing it, but do you realize there are prizes involved here? How would you feel at having a prize ripped away from you just because the admin here don't like you?

Ms. Micheleh, if you happen to follow any of those 51 posts you would notice that I have confessed more than once that I am not an artist at all, I only come here because I enjoy to look at 3D art. I started interacting on the discussion boards a little while ago because I wanted to be more a part of what makes this place and the members here come together, moreso an attempt to really find out the personal aspects behind all the great art here, and the folks that might run such a place as well. I find it fascinating the things I have learned and continue to learn. I don't really comprehend entirely what you are implying with your statement here but I assure you, I am just an average Joe member called Billy that has an incredible passion for enjoying the art here. I wanted to get to know this place more, and I have, and I happen to like it here. I think the scribblings among all the artists and creators here can enhance the entire scope of all you feast visually in the galleries. The art speaks for itself but the acoustics and the canvas are brought together upon the discussion board interactivities here. Makes everything so much more rewarding. Merry Christmas

Billy, I could have sworn you were asking to drop the subject several days ago, now you are posting and starting posts more than others. Who are you really? I mean besides this new BillyJ? Merry Xmas. JDexter

Ms. Chailynne, I don't recall anywhere on this forum seeing anyone that runs this place stating or even "hinting" that they dislike any of the artists up for AOY, if there was such a thing, THAT would be so heartless and unforgivable indeed, nevermind very unprofessional. I also do not recall seeing a clear winner outcome from the dreaded poll results that the hecklers here fly by the seat of their pants on, had there been, this would also be very unforgivable, although I do NOT comprehend why the folks that voted for ToxicAngel who WAS winning in the polls, did not make an even bigger fuss than those heralding Legume. It would seem ToxicAngel being in the lead had way more to lose, and yet the screams of "disgrace" for ToxicAngel were not even evident here on the boards at all, they were all about Legume who was in second place?? Somehow that makes no sense to me? What I do see here is a very frustrated staff trying very hard to save face about a very unfortunate, big mistake they unintentionally made in how they wish to Administer such an IMPORTANT event as this "Artist of the Year" and many members/hecklers here jumping gleefully at the opportunity to make this a bashing fiesta for whatever cause may motivate them. I also feel bad for Legume because this artist Legume seems to be in the middle of it all and may even be feeling less than he is, he shouldn't, his art is incredible stuff. With all due respect, I cannot help what "I" see just as much as the hecklers cannot stop "heckling." Merry Christmas to you Chailynne

What I am implying is that people here get very suspicious when a 'green' member suddenly picks up a banner on behalf of the admins and condescends toward members who try to express legitimate dissatisfactions. This leads many to assume that the member is a fabrication for the purposes of misdirecting the issue away from resolution of the actual grievence, which in this case is the legitimate frustration of being given a chance to participate in a vote process, only to have it denied.

"Billy, I could have sworn you were asking to drop the subject several days ago, now you are posting and starting posts more than others. Who are you really? I mean besides this new BillyJ?" JDexter, perhaps I do have a little more time on my hands than usual. I am on holiday and finally have a chance to catch up on the gallery here and I seem to be enjoying the guts of what makes this place run and come together more and more as well. I hope that's okay? As for who I am? I am Billy James. I have little to hide other than a mole on my left, well, maybe that is something a little too personal. I take pictures for hobby and like to think I am pretty good, I like the female form and find more and more 3d generated art, especially poser art, following the path of what I like to view. I am unfortunatly not an artist so I depend on those that can do this for me, like so many here do. Happy Holiday JDexter

Actually Billy, Micheleh said exactly what I was thinking. That's what I meant by 'Who are you' JDexter

i tend to agree with micheleh on this one. billyj...even if you aren't a "r'osity schill", it isn't right to come in here, telling folks who've been here for a long, long time that we should just accept whatever is handed down by the staff, even if it is blatantly unfair. from what i've been seeing the past few months, more and more of this place is "rigged", from the hot-20, to the emoticon contest, and, it's even been said the magazine covers. we have no choice but to accept it. it's a done deal. however, you or nobody else has the right to tell anyone else that we should "cheerfully" accept it. fair is fair. and, if some of us are disgusted over some of the antics that go on behind the scenes, in this place....so frickin' what? who made you the god of what the rest of us have to like? if you don't like threads like this...don't read 'em. i skip alot of threads that aren't of interest to me. my holiday was very nice, thank you. but, now, it is basically over.

Hi, Poppi! Long time no see! I hear you. Let's just say, as to perspective... I was thinking of changing my username to Catspaw. ;)

Well, in "that" context of 'Who are you'...being 'green' and all, I am but a new member that after looking at the galleries here for some time, one day finally decided to actually join up to the rest of this big place to see what all the fuss was about. I was astounded to see a whole gigantic online community world filled with artistic folks that shared and cared and learned from each other and in a weird way I wanted to try to be a part of all that 'belonging' I saw here all over. As a newcomer I actually see a lot of value here in resources and especially in talent galore and I think that the folks that create and run this kind of forum that can bring so many mindlike folks together, well, they certainly have to have had some family spirit about them. I know this place is also a business, the front page alone is proof of that, however people like me can still come here and not even pay a penny, post anything I want to if I was that inclined, write here to my hearts content, even complain till I am blue or just shoot the shit if I wanted to. I see all that happening here all over. I think that even though there is indeed a business side to this place, there is also a very wholesome side as well, a side that cares enough to bring all you folks together time after time again and allow many of us to have a home away from home even if it IS online, so that we can sit in comfort in our little real world homes and have a place to escape to and be with many others from all over the world that we would probably NEVER, ever meet, nevermind share so much talent, beauty and knowledge with. Maybe because I am new here I don't really understand the frustration some folks seem to feel from this mistake that seems like an honest error made by someone that seemed caring enough to claim responsibilty for it, but after finding and realizing so much I do like about this place, I would really not like to see it be any less than it is just because of some seeming hecklers that appear to be making a mountain out of a moehill for whatever selfish point THEY are trying to make and pin on the site owners here. That is what it seems like to me, Billy, a new guy that can't understand how the many good things I see here can be so overwhelmed by some few that would hold so much dissention even though it is obvious they actually DO like it here after all. Be Merry for Christmas is here.

That's cool, just don't wear out the soapbox, it's not the best way to communicate. ;)

my ex always got the kids christmas day, too. i had 'em christmas eve. actually, it was a good break...they'd leave at 11 and get home about 5. i used to have a party every christmas eve, so that was very nice, to regroup. of course, on the years i regrouped quickly and got everything done...well, frankly, it could get boring. was always glad to see them come back home. he died 4 years ago, super bowl sunday. he had a brain tumor, that made him violent. that's why we got divorced. yet, i honestly don't hate christmas. this year, mine was pretty nice, to be honest....new year's eve makes me sad, though....auld ange syne could make me cry on the 4th of july, truth be told :*)

Since this is a Graphic Artists community, then it would probably be wise to sit on the sidelines and let the ones who do Graphics for a living work things out. Trust us, you would'nt understand

Since this is a Graphic Artists community, then it would probably be wise to sit on the sidelines and let the ones who do Graphics for a living work things out. Trust us, you would'nt understand no, i don't understand. i do graphics in my business. does that mean i have an actual say, HERE????...i could not find your gallery, btw. but, honest, i'm gonna sit this one out and let those who are so much more worthy than i am "work things out". and, no...i don't trust. and, no...i don't understand.

Was'nt refering to you. Sheeeeesh! I know you are a pro and why many are offended by certain methods.

"Ms. Chailynne, I don't recall anywhere on this forum seeing anyone that runs this place stating or even "hinting" that they dislike any of the artists up for AOY." I guess this knowledge comes from not being new here and "living" through the uproar caused when Legume won AOM to begin with... which promptly made the admin change how canidates for AOM were picked. Meaning the artists no longer got to choose who was nominated, because the admins didn't want someone else like Legume to ever win AOM again. I think it was wrong of them to pull the poll no matter who was winning/losing whatever. It comes from watching the admin change rules in the middle of contests. It comes from other incidents that have happened which I won't mention since someone was already banned for bringing it up. If it was in fact decided a year ago that only admins and mods were going to be voting for AOY, it should have been stated publicly at that time instead of stating it after voting this year went live and then saying it was a mistake. A mistake? Yeah right... Cut them slack, nope, not when they screw up time and time again.

As a long time memberI have been watching this along with all the other things. I say drop all contests,aom(and I have been one)and aoy. No matter who wins someone always compains. and these last few with people "politicing for votes" I would have shut it down myself if it was up to me. Acually this is a free site you or I don't pay to come here so why should you expect anything. As a matter of fact I gain a great deal from this site without spending one cent. They host my images,over 250, I have been working for the last year on a game. They would have never known about me without this site. So I have to say I'm a little tired of this too. Hey do like me and don't enter the contests and you'll never be that disapointed who won. Render some pix, answer a few questions for help, enjoy the art, and most of all enjoy yourself. Life is to short for all this. my 2 cents

Yup. Pretend it's a public corkboard- post your work, tack up questions, and don't expect anything else. I guess that maskes the MP those little cardboard 'for sale' signs. Corkboards don't have community, accountability, or standards. Problem solved.

I'm not even going to get sucked into this. I said my piece and I stand by what I say.ok just this little rant. Your always free to frequent other sites if you don't like it here. shit happens. From what I have read it sounds like a political race more than a contest anyway. I would have pulled it the second it looked like the ballet box was getting stuffed. But that's just me. And you know what I bet this crap hurts the merchents more than the contest mistake,conspirisy or whatever you want to call it. As a mater of fact I bet the impact is minimal either way. In the big picture this means next to nothing. Life will go on new people will get into poser and the sales continue.Always seems to be a good number of people online. As for community...it's what you make it. When I rented my landlords conduct din't influence the frendship of the tenents even thogh they were pretty bogus. I don't know any mod or admins, never talked to any, never had a reason to. If you do busness here I'm sure you have a contract. There is your accountabillity. They have to account to me for nothing. They owe me nothing. Just as I have no say what so ever in how they do busness. if the mechants have issuses with them then they should get together and bring it up with them. A crooked contest can be perpitrated by either side. The second there was drastic change in the voting it was thier DUTY to shut it down. Would you stand for the mayoral candidate in your town to stuff the ballot box. I think not. Now I'm going to enjoy my family on this holiday and not give another care to this issue now and in the future because it really means nothing to me. Art is not a contest and I don't care who is artist of the century.

Cicero, Illinois has that attitude. Hey if you don't like it, don't come here. Wrong is wrong is wrong, no matter how it's spinned. BTW, this is not an "invitation only" site, which would qualify it as private, much like a country club. It is open to anyone, no matter what their qualifications are.

Yep you said it. "Wrong is wrong is wrong, no matter how it's spinned" Wouldn't you have pulled the contest if you were running it and spotted some voting irregularities. Campaining for aoy is cheating and I would have stopped it right away. The only thing I would have done different was I would have stated exactly why the contest was stopped. I doubt the ever meant for it to be a politcal contest. I didn't vote and don't really care who wins. I've enjoyed the art from all the candidates. It's not that I just don't care, I do. I help when I can.I just don't like how contests degenrate into such as this and don't even try to lay it all on the admins, I would have stopped it too because of voting irregularities. That's why I don't partisipate in contests or the enevitable flame wars that generate. Well I did get suckered into this one didn't I ;o) I'm not telling anybody to leave. But on the other hand why hang out where your uncomfortable. But definitely don't let anything I say infuence you in any way. I'm just voicing my opinion on this matter. "BTW, this is not an "invitation only" site, which would qualify it as private, much like a country club. It is open to anyone, no matter what their qualifications are. " I do believe your wrong here. At least I don't have any stock in the company. So It's not my site. I guess the owners are the people that do have stock. Add if they don't want me here I could be banned for life. Sounds pretty much like a private site to me. I wish everybody a peaceful solution to this but I'm bowing out because I have no influence on anything that happens in this situation.

Sorry I have to dissagree. I really think the art should do all the talking. As you said it's for ARTist of the year not showman of the year,Hey you would win that one hands donw.From what I read you weren't the only one to solicite votes. I just think it's poor form to caimpaign in an art contest even if it isn't in black and white. If all these people were interested in voting they would do it they don't need a friendly reminder. Even a gentile reminder to vote has subtle presures to vote for the sender of such reminder. I don't promote my art and it's enjoyed around the world.I don't even have a web site anymore. A picture says a thousand words. I even make a few bucks on it :) I always thought it was the art I enjoyed not the personality of the artist. It really should all be in the art for all to see. Your personality shines thru in your work just as you catch glimpses of my in my work,lol if you even look at it. To much self promotion takes from the art as it distacts from the art. Heck look at what happened here for a good example. You can't tell me that if you wern't leading the contest and somebody got all thier friends to vote for them and you lost you wouldn't be a tad miffed. If everybody did that what kind of contest do we have. An artist contest or a political contest. I know your smart enough to figure out that the person with the most friends wins...Now where exactly dose art fit in. Lets have some fair play and let the art do the talking. I was nominated this year for aom. I contacted no one accept the admin that sent the email thanking them. I came in the middle of the pack. Could I have done better by soliciting votes.... maybe. Would it have made my art better than the winners....no. Would I have felt better getting those few extra votes...no. So many people like othe peoples work better and they won...as it should be I have nothing against you or your art. I just don't think what you did was in the spirt of the contest or was right.

Dang I better go to bed I can't type tonight. Half numb hands don't help either. Get thru the typos and you'll get my point

I still stand by my point that this is not a private site. Whomever runs it knew full well what they were getting into before they started this business. Much like any other business, they still need to abide by the laws which any other business is legally and morally bound to.
Example: If person A starts a business/religion/whatever, then runs numerous contests, then supposedly scams persons investing their time, money, etc.. Person A can say they had a non-public business, but it became public they first time someone walked through the door.
But, this is why we have laws, etc. in this country. If the PTB under John Ashcroft decide it is worth investigating, then they will. Anyone that stands in the way would be obstructing justice.
Art is subjective. It's all a matter of opinion.
Live with it.

SYLLABICATION:
private
PRONUNCIATION:
pr?t
ADJECTIVE:
1 a. Secluded from the sight, presence, or intrusion of others: a private hideaway. b. Designed or intended for one's exclusive use: a private room. 2 a. Of or confined to the individual; personal: a private joke; private opinions. b. Undertaken on an individual basis: private studies; private research. c. Of, relating to, or receiving special hospital services and privileges: a private patient. 3. Not available for public use, control, or participation: a private club; a private party. 4 a. Belonging to a particular person or persons, as opposed to the public or the government: private property. b. Of, relating to, or derived from nongovernment sources: private funding. c. Conducted and supported primarily by individuals or groups not affiliated with governmental agencies or corporations: a private college; a private sanatorium. d. Enrolled in or attending a private school: a private student. 5. Not holding an official or public position: a private citizen. 6 a. Not for public knowledge or disclosure; secret: private papers; a private communication. b. Not appropriate for use or display in public; intimate: private behavior; a private tragedy. c. Placing a high value on personal privacy: a private person.

: If person A starts a business/religion/whatever, then runs numerous contests, then supposedly scams persons investing their time, money, etc.. Person A can say they had a non-public business, but it became public they first time someone walked through the door: scammed into waisting your time. Oh come on how long did it take you to vote. You can stand by your piont all you want. It wont change a thing about private or not. The fact is it is a private site doesn't matter one bit what we think or not.And as such they can make any rules for this site they want. A busness becomes public when the sell stock in that companey until that time it's a private company. And they still wouldn't be accountable to you but the stock holders. now I just waisted a few minutes of your time am I now a public busness. your argument doesn't hold water My point. the one your skipping over, is the contest was stop because of rampent cheating. I think once all the facts are out the AG will toss this complaint in the trash where it belong. "Live with it" I'll get along fine no matter how this turns out. Don't get bent out of shape. Don't take it so personaly. I didn't say anything about anybody's art. I mentioned I think the voting was stopped because of stuffing the ballot box and Legume admitted he did it. prove me wrong with facts and I'll be more than willing to listen.

copy and pasting the dictonary still doesn't prove your point. private company= no stock traded on the open market public company= stock traded on the open market. you still haven't shown me how that makes this a public company

Why does'nt everyone just get together and sing a song? That should make all the terrible meanies go away.
BTW, you're the only one who mentioned "rampant cheating" on part of the members. Kind of a low opinion of your "fellow" artists. Or maybe you're not really one of us?
You are a Graphic Artist are you not? Just curious.
Just another schill, I suppose. They are so common nowadays.
Oh well, I'm not going to get sidetracked by flies in the soup. See, Ya.

"I think the voting was stopped because of stuffing the ballot box and Legume admitted he did it." See, now THIS is what really bothers me too, only I didn't really wanna say it so..."bluntly", especially over the holiday spirit time and also because I am 'green' here, (thanks Micheleh for that wholesome, welcome thought). See, from what I "see" going on around here, this Sir Legume, as much as I DO admire him, and his sidekick Mr. Mosca, used a little, maybe even a LOT, of hanky panky to Administer their own brand of "winning" foreplay. Don't get me wrong now, I really do enjoy Sir Legumes art and all like so many others and I think he has every right to be a candidate for top running, but I did see it admitted about the "stuffing" and I somehow find it very, very difficult to believe that as good as Sir Legume's artwork is, that he would excel so very quickly and even overtake ToxicAngel in the ballot box with such incredible speed and accuracy. By all reasonable accounting and logic this just does not make sense, and I am a Professional Engineer. So then you heckle people tell me about what is FAIR and proper?? You dare want to preach about fairness Mosca?? Anyone else?? Someone want to tell me again how the site staff are being so mean and so cruel to their members by wanting to keep this for honorable intentions instead of having a winner by "stuffing"?? I had a Turkey dinner yesterday and saw that stuffing makes that Turkey a whole lot bigger and a LOT more Turkey for the buck, it gave everyone a much bigger meal, and that's good; but when applied to voting and ballot boxes I don't think it's all that tasty at all, in fact it might even be illegal in itself. If it isn't, it should be. Can anyone possibly tell me how winning this way is RIGHT?? Is it really fair to all those other nice artists that are up for winning that never had any stuffing at all? Perhaps you heckle folks should all re-establish another motive because this one you have just is NOT going to work at all, in fact it sounds REALLY dumb and absurd when you think about it!! Merry Boxing day.

i think this is how it goes...if you've looked at the poser "hot 20" during the last 3 months, you will have noticed that some of the newer folks got there by "stuffing". i guess when legume took over the hot 20 he set a new "stuffing" precedent 'round here, that was copied and used by some of the newer folks coming to this site. okay, now, from what i am gathering, this "stuffing" procedure also was allowed, and used for the aom contest. again...staff allowed that. now, the finals...the aoy contest. midstream, admins changed the rules. i hate stuffing. i have been angered a time or two at what has happened to the poser hot 20. however, the site allowed it, and, that was that. as usual, i had no say. now, midstream in the final contest the "stuffing" is disallowed. i sure hope that applies to all stuffing all over this place. i understand how legume and mosca could be upset. you don't change the rules midstream, even if a non stuffing rule is beneficial.

What the admins have said so far is that the voting was scrapped because of errors/irregularities in LAST year's voting. They've said nothing about any problems with this year's vote. It's not "cheating" to campaign for votes--there's no such rule. All of the contestants have the same opportunity in that regard, so I'm not sure how it can be considered "unfair." I think it's time for management to address this issue head-on--not ignore it, not try to sweep it under the rug. The more they delay and misdirect, the more it looks like they're hiding something.

Has anyone else here read "Volpone"? I finally understand what is going on. I am slow but not illiterate. And now amused.

You are a Graphic Artist are you not? Just curious. Just another schill, I suppose. They are so common nowadays. Oh well, I'm not going to get sidetracked by flies in the soup. See, Ya. Well _peter I have over 250 images in my gallery and you have how many 000. I think that speaks volumes. Take a peek if you doubt Yeah I said CHEATING and I'll say it again. Stuffing the ballot is cheating and I really don't care how to try shift the focus it there for all to see. This is my opinion on this matter. It has nothing to do with the admins or mods. I saw 2 people addmit to campaigning for the vote. That's not my opinion that's a fact I think Legume knew good and well what might happen. He's way too smart not have some clue as to what would happen and he does like to stir the pot from time to time. Bottom line here is it's an ARTist contest not a political race. If your that passionate about campaigning join your political party and go to town. But don't grab every loophole you can find in a contest just to promote yourself. -----My opinion----- Suffing the ballot to win an art contest is low budget. If the art can't stand on it's own then so be it. Nobodies going to keel over and die if they lose.

VOTE FOR ME as AOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cheers Sean :+P

I am unsure what is meant by "stuffing the ballot". I have always heard the term used to refer to people voting more than once. That would indeed be cheating. However, if "stuffing the ballot" means asking your friends to vote for you, I don't understand how that could be considered cheating. What does Artist of the Year mean? To me, it is akin to Time Magazine's "Man of the Year". The "Man of the Year" isn't necessairly the best "Man of the Year", it's the person who made the biggest impact during the year. I don't think there's an artist on this site who's made a bigger impact this year than Legume. He's probably just about the best known guy here. He's been at the center of a lot of stuff that happened this past year. He's brought a lot of people into Renderosity -- people who have stayed, and posted their own galleries. He has been the big story of the year. He's the one person who everyone has an opinion about. How can Legume not be Artist of the Year?

I mean by stuffinfg the ballot... Getting all your friend to vote for you. Now what if you live someplace that charges by the minute to connect to the internet. That right there puts you at a dissadvantage. I don't know a whole lot of people online. I prefer to work on my images than chat. Another minus. I could go on but I think you get the drift. Unless all parties have the same oppotunities it woulsd be unfair. Just because everyone has an opinion about legume and he is well known makes him the best of the best. I think not. If this was a contest of personalities sure he would win. If nobody solicited votes would he still have as many as he did. I doubt it very much or else he wouldn't have done it. I'd like to see the figures on how many people joined just because Legume or are you just speculating?

Ok I'm out of this I stated my opinion and I stick by it. So you found a loophole and took advantage of it. I still think thats why the contest was pulled. You do what you want to do Legume. Don't effect me one way or another. But I don't agree with your tactics. Never said you were clone voting. Just don't like how you muster votes. I don't know the ruse of the contest because I never enter contests. Have no need to read them. But if I did enter a contest I wouldn't go over the rules looking for loophole to gain unfair advantage. So you put up a "political poster" on your site.Then the next guy does and so on. Sounds less and less like a contest anf more and more like a political race. Here's another little nugget to chew on. If campaigning is alowed then isn't negative champaining. Maybe you wouldn't do it but if it's not againt the rule maybe you might.

Lon Chaney, I shall try to address each of your points. My apologies if I overlook any. I still don't understand how getting your friends to vote for you is "stuffing the ballot". Since I don't understand that it is the same as "stuffing the ballot", I still don't understand how it is unfair. I also don't see that all parties don't have the same opportunities. Just because you don't know a whole lot of people online doesn't mean you didn't have the opportunity to know a lot of people. That's your choice, isn't it? I understand about the charges per minute, but if that's a concern, use an offline reader to play on Usenet. That's what I do. You prefer to work on images rather than chat. Again, that's your choice. You still have the opportunity to do what Legume does. I believe the majority of his internet buds are not from on line chat, but from alt.slack on Usenet (Legume will correct me if I am wrong about this, I'm sure), which can be read off-line. So, again, still your choice. No disadvantage. I never said that everyone having an opinion about him made Legume "the best of the best". In fact, I thought my Time Magazine comparison would make it clear that I didn't think AOY meant "best artist". Heck, I don't even think you can have a "best artist" -- far too subjective. My own opinion can change one day to the next, never mind a bunch of other people. Well, to be more clear: I don't believe that Artist of the Year means the "best of the best". I think it should go to the artist who has made the biggest impact during the year, and I think that artist is Legume. I don't see a problem with soliciting votes, so I don't think the point about whether he would have as many votes is relevant. Why are you certain that AOY is not a contest of personalities? Perhaps one of the problems is that AOY means different things to different people, and should be defined better. I think I've done a pretty good job at defining what I think AOY means, but let me know if I have been unclear. Finally, you are correct; I am indeed just speculating on the figures of people who joined because of Legume. I only know for sure about six or so. But that handful is more than I ever brought in, which is Zero. Anyway, it was a small point, and if you prefer to ignore it that's OK by me. I will mention that I, personally, take part in the site a little more because of Legume (and I am not one of his internet buds, in case you wondered; technically I partake in a rival religion). Seems like the only time I ever post in a non-Carrara or Modelling forum is when something concerning Legume happens. Gosh, I hope he doesn't think I'm stalking him. It would spoil the surprise.

Lon Chaney: One more point. I don't believe that Legume used a "loophole" to gain unfair advantage. You are speaking as if that were a given, and I do not agree. To me, loophole implies some sort of technicality that lets someone get around the rules. I do not think that applies here. I really think "stuffing the ballot box" means something specific: voting more than once, and it isn't right to accuse Legume (or others) of doing that. You can accuse him of aggressively campaigning (which is not wrong, so perhaps "accuse" is the wrong word), but not "stuffing the ballot box". Also: A political race is a type of contest. So far I understand that you don't like Legume's tactics, but I don't see that you have given clear reasons why.

Yes, it IS within the rules. But since nobody has DONE THAT, it's not really pertinent to this discussion, is it? Sure it is. How could it not be. Nobody went out and really campained for votes until you did. You found the loophole and took advantage of it. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't make it impossible. I din't say it was againt the rules to "promote yourself" I just think it's in bad taste to campaign in a contest like this. Seems that the owners of the site thought you were pushing the envelope on the rule too much and pulled the contest. Although I really don't know thier reasons thats the conclusions I draw. Do what you feel is right. take it to the highest court you can if that's your mission. I wouldn't resort to those tactics to win but feel free to follow your mind for nothing I say will change it. That's all I am going to say on this matter good luck to all and happy rendering Lon

Thanks for the correction, Legume (apparently I'm not stalking you well enough). That's what I get for hiring my dog to do detective work. Of course, any newsgroup can be read offline, so the "connection charge" leading to "unfair advantage" argument still doesn't wash.