Whoops. Forgot to also mention that I used HMann's P5 hair, and UD Bang Hair. V3 is sporting the old V1 sweater with some new textures. Dave

Good shot for an anger management book.

The woman really does look frustrated. I could see this on a book cover.

Dave, try adding a bump to the sweater, so it doesn't look like a 3D object with a texture mapped onto it. Sweaters usually have a textural feel and a more defined pattern. The colors fight a bit too...everything is in very much a russet palette and then this punched-up green. The focus should be on her face. I don't know that I would have so much light on him...maybe subdue him...even desaturate into the background. If I had done this, I might have had them face to face with her angrily talking and taken his ears off and put a "I can't hear you" look on his face. You need to have someone look at the cover and hopefully get it before they even read the title. Good luck. Cris

Well the client requested this posing. And this is after all a rough draft before I go hogwild with details. Just wanted to see if I was on the right track. Dave

Dave, may I suggest something about the hands? If she is making a fist, then the fingers should be squeezed together and there should be no gaps between them. (I know the default fist position is like this is Poser, I worked on this once myself. I had to move the fingers closer together.) Or maybe she's doing the "I'm gonna strangle him" move? Then maybe the fingers should be more extended and curved in a claw-like way. I don't know how to explain it, sorry. Her expression is great, it really shows how angry she is. Sue

Could it not be then the moment right before she closes her fists then? I kind of like it, but then I havent heard from the client yet. Dave

but it doesn't look like she hasn't closed her fists yet...I agree, close the gaps....I'd also suggest in post work, smoothing out those white pixels around the edges of her at the neck and shoulders.....I also agree the green dress is too much, it jumps out at you instead of her face; try another color that goes better with the orange background, orange tinted eyebrows and lips, instead of working against it.

Will take that into account. If I get the go ahead from the client then I will be making those changes. Already knew about the white pixels but didnt want to obsess with details since this is a sketch. Dave

If she hasn't closed her fists yet, maybe move the thumbs a little more out? Usually, when you make a fist, you first curve your fingers in towards the palm of the hand, then you fold your thumb over them. (At least that's how we do it in Taekwon-Do.) Actually, for her expression, it might be better to have the fingers a little apart like you have them in your picture, but with the thumbs out a little, not tucked in. :) Sue

Red and green screams Xmas-- a dark vibrant blue is a better choice and yes, I'd desat the guy so that it's clear he's fading. You might want to make another version with him turned around smiling as if he's clueless-- again colored as if he's just as tuned out. Just becaue this pose is their idea doesn't mean you should present alternatives to it. And do fix the hands so they are posed well. I like the fists personally, they're simple and effective. Won't the negative spread close them? A little bit of desperation on her face other than anger would also help. She's not a bitch, she's frustrated. Depends on who the book is marketed to-- I'm betting women. Emily

In all honesty, and I know the client asked for this posing, but I'm with Queri...I'm betting this is being marketed to women and I didn't have a very good reaction to this angry woman in the foreground...would not make me want to take another look at the book. But the client is the client, so you do the best you can. Good luck with your project. Cris

I'd experiment with the eyes, staring fixedly out of the picture sends a kind of "back off" message to the viewer - try having her stare down and to the side. if she stares toward the side the male is standing it should look like hatred towards him. Staring off away (to viewer's right) should increase the sense of frustration. The hands as they are suggest a pugilistic pose - try crossing the forearms (not just the wrists) asymetrically to suggest attempted self restraint and see how it works for you.

What was the question? :)

LOL. Name of a book, dude. Take a gander at http://www.mendontlistem.com and see what my client has to say on the matter. Thanks, Dave

Maybe having her look down at her hands more, instead of confronting the viewer? Might make it more sympathetic..

Your URL is has a typo. Maybe men don't type, either?! With the book's subtitle, I'm surprised the client wants the woman in the foreground and not the man. I'm not an artist but her hair seems a little high off her forehead, too.

I agree with pigfish. Hairs seems floated. Everything else is allright.

Looks good to me Dave. (Hmmff... "Men Don't Listen"... must be fictional. With the amount of yapping women do how the hell can we NOT be listening...) Good luck with your client; that's cool!

Besides the comments already posted about hair and fists, I think I'd try something between an olive drab and a goose-turd green for the dress and a colder, darker red for the background, like iron only just starting to get hot. The bright green is the wrong kind of discord, but you do want the colors to sit uneasily next to each other and look distasteful. Likewise his clothes, maybe slate gray or low-saturation vert de terre? He blends too much; I'd want him dull and in a 'receding' color but still visible enough to throw something at. Folding his arms sort of expresses him being unreceptive, but I'd tilt his head back and a bit to one side and shift his weight onto one foot to make him look more uncomfortable and frustrated. He's too static / passive here to have interested her enough to be that incandescent. I think I'd narrow her eyes a bit and focus them on the horizon instead of the viewer, or through the viewer, to match the rest of her face. On the other hand, along with a couple of the previous posts, what is the target audience and how would this move them to pick up the book? Are we having fun yet?

Oh yeah. Loads of fun. This is the kind of input I needed. The audience for this book is men, believe it or not. Sorry bout the typo. Usually I catch those before I hit the "send" button. Dave

Men can't hear what women don't say.

Get the smug look off the guys face. What kind of crap is this book anyway? Men don't listen? excuse me but don't we have 52% of the population as female, 65% of registered voters as female, a female supreme court justice, countless female judges, the military adviser to the president is a BLACK WOMAN, we had a female secretary of state, a female attorney general, females in the military, female cops, female fire fighters, female govenors, mayors, congresswomen, senators, the president of Playboy is a woman.... We have title 9 but only when it favors women. No female ballet dancers are cut to even up the men. We have the minute and a half law in california that if a man does not cease having sex with a woman who implies (not actually says) no its rape. We have affirmative action for women. We have a court system that favors women in child custody suits. We have a court system that accepts on the word of a mother that a father molested the kid. We have the reasonable woman's law concerning sexual harrassment and rape. We have little boys doing crap in schools with lower and lower test scores each year while girls self esteem are the only concern (Carol Gilligan's work). We will have nearly 65% of all college attendees be female by the year 2005 given the current rate of college enrollment. Plus nearly all of primetime TV and three cable networks (WE, Oxygen and Lifetime) are devoted to female programming and nearly 40% of all sports casters are now women. This is pretty damn fricken' good for men not listenning. Maybe with all this whining and complain men should just stop listenning. I'm all for that guy in the background 100%. Steinam blames white men for 9/11 and we men get stabbed in the back for nearly 40 years of bending over backwards for women and the book wonders why men don't listen. Geez. I hope more men stop listenning.

whoah ... this is a thread about the WIP image. See? that picture up there? if you want to rant about the topic 'men don't listen' please take it to OT Lyrra

Thanks, Lyrra. I'm just the artist here, I didnt write the friggin' book. Dave P.S. So is the image better or worse now?

ok, sorry. too much espresso

I like the changes - they take an "Edge" off the picture and imply a more humorous, balanced approach. I think the "earless guy" idea might be worth trying - You could sub the LoRez Casual Guy that comes with Poser, add hair, and see how it looks. Overall I think this is a better pic, but it may depend on the emotional tone of the book.

The second picture is much less confrontive ... which is good for a book cover. The colors are calmer, but still edgy, and whover suggested desaturing the guy ... it was a good idea. I'd try a slightly smaller and crisper bump on her sweater and maybe darken her eyebrows a touch. Oh .... remember to leave space for the title

Yep. Will do all that. Once I get the go ahead I'll readjust the size of the picture to acomodate the cover size and title. Dont want to do to much before I'm gonna get some bucks for this. Think I should post this in the gallery? Dave